connoisseur series500

Great post, SS. I never thought about it before but it is clearly evident that Patton followed the song in his solos. I greatly admire his playing. He's one of the big 3. BTW, I do remember now that Benson played on "Mozambique." No wah wah guitar but still disappointing to my ears.

It wasn't "Turning Point," Pete; it's "Think!" that I have and like. "Mozambique" was a big disappointment for me. Can't take those wah wah guitars and funky singing. Will admit, however, that the tunes really picked up when Lonnie did his solos. Haven't yet heard "Drive." I know that Undergroundagent talks about "Move Your hand" as his favorite Lonnie Smith. Conn, if you don't like Mozambique I'd say the odds are you won't like Move Your Hand or McDuff's Moon Rappin.' All three of these are funky, have wah wah pedals, and vocals. Thanks for pointing that out, Noj. They should ban wah wah guitar work from jazz!

The people at that downtown store seem to go on strike every few months, and they annoy the hell out of me because I can't get into or out of the damn store unaccosted!!! Last time they got in my face, asking me to sign some stupid petition that I don't even remember the details of. The other Ann Arbor store, however, is never on strike, at least not that I've seen. I think it's just the downtown one. People even have "Boycott Borders!!" signs on their lawns over this. If I had any cash right now I would proudly walk into that store, buy something and walk out in front of the strikers. I would happily have entered Borders if that was my intention, Greg. I was too busy checking out Encore and Wazoo. In general, I'm not afraid of striking workers making it difficult to enter doors. I get all feisty about people trying to determine my shopping habits. I just happened to notice all the noise and stuff while I was on the opposite side of the street.

It wasn't "Turning Point," Pete; it's "Think!" that I have and like. "Mozambique" was a big disappointment for me. Can't take those wah wah guitars and funky singing. Will admit, however, that the tunes really picked up when Lonnie did his solos. Haven't yet heard "Drive." I know that Undergroundagent talks about "Move Your hand" as his favorite Lonnie Smith.

Wheww, what a game! We did pull it out in the end. Seemed as if we couldn't stop Indy's offense at all, but we were able to do so at the end. New England is quite possibly the best team in the NFL right now. What are our weaknesses? Our offensive coordinator Charlie Weiss does not know how to call run plays. He will often start plays off with an empty backfield. No play in football pisses me off more than that one. Keep a running back in a non-shotgun formation if only to maintain the threat of running. It makes me sick! The other weakness is our punter. He downright sucks. Towards the end of the game with the Pats at their own 12, he kicked a solid 20 yarder. This is typical crap from him. I think we could find a better kicker with one leg and a prosthetic device. One day, we will lose a game as a result of Ken Walters and our coordinator, Charlie Weiss. But right now, we are probably the team to beat in the NFL (along with KC.)

I'll definitely check out Bill Heid, Jim. In my discussion of Lonnie Smith, I did forget to mention "Think" which is a great soul jazz session. It's probably my favorite Smith recording. The only McDuff session I have is "Honeydripper" and I like it. But obviously I need to check him out some more as well.

I see the Titans definitely defeating the Colts next Sunday. It is important for New England to beat them as well as it has great implications for playoff seedings. If Indy wins, New England will not get the first round bye in the playoffs. All these games coming up in the next few weeks are important to every team who are playoff bound. Man, I'm getting excited about today's game. Gotta listen to it on the radio as Ohio loves their Browns; and they show Cincy or Pittsburgh in the 1:00 game if the Brownies are playing at 4:00. Can we pull it off? Ewwww, I certainly hope so...

Big game for me today is Pats at Indy. I'm really concerned about this game. Manning only has a 4-4 record against us and Belichek finds ways to shut people down, but I think Indy is going to win this game in a close contest. It's at their house and they've got enough weapons to put points on the board. If we lose this game, we've 9-3 and we've got a rejuvenated Miami coming into town next week. It's possible that New England will suddenly find themselves 9-4 and tied with the dreaded Dolphins for the division lead. Ughhh! We'll take it one game at a time. Go Pats!

Hey Beri, Was in Ann Arbor, Mi on Saturday and noticed a large contingent of Union employees yelling and waving "on strike!" placards outside of Borders. I didn't go into the store, but I wonder if this was just a local issue or whether this was going on in all the Border's outlets. Does this have anything to do with their decision not to hire any extra Christmas help?

Up for further comments. Notice the thread about the DVD in the "New Releases" section.

I've seen the DVD version now a few times and would definitely rate it a big improvement over the VHS. I too am disappointed that "Passion Dance" was taken out; and I would also have included one other Charles Lloyd tune as he was "ON" that evening. I am very pleased to see a couple more Jimmy Smith tunes and I loved seeing Stanley Turrentine. His eyes are so incredibly expressive, and he's got that wonderful tone. It is interesting to see that some of the camera shots are different from those in the VHS. Would like to refer those here to also check out a similar thread in the "artists" section. Some interesting comments there as well.

Nuff Said!

I've been thinking about this topic for quite some time. Still trying to forumulate my thoughts but would really appreciate everyone's input here as there's still so much I haven't heard; and what I've heard needs closer listening. Is it fair to say that three figures stand out above the pack: Jimmy Smith, John Patton, and Larry Young? Of the three, Jimmy Smith was the huge influence. The man's lightning fast right hand, his innovations and overall command of the B-3 is unparalleled certainly. He was a huge sun in which all these lesser planets revolved around him and gloried in his style. What amazes me is how Big John Patton merged so quickly with his own style and didn't appear overly influenced by Smith. I think about this all the time. I don't know how to describe Patton's style, but this is the organist who intrigues me the most. He went his own way even though he didn't exactly play with the most innovative people. Patton's recordings are with people like Lou Donaldson and Grant Green, so he could have just developed like a Jack McDuff or Baby Face. This is why I feel his development is so interesting. I really admire the man. He was a great artist who showed individuality early on. I see Big John Patton in much the same way I see Woody Shaw: both were great individual artists who were really blossoming during the years of jazz decline. Pattton's 1968 recordings with James Blood Ulmer were super. I don't feel too competent to describe Larry Young and his style. There was a thread started on this board a while back wondering how Young could have gone so quickly from a straightahead style into his modal approach so quickly. His BN recordings are masterpieces; but unlike Patton, Young played with some progressive people like Joe Henderson and Woody Shaw. Young was obviously a great innovator and I love his stuff. After these three giants we can perhaps categorize some of the others: Baby Face Willette and McGriff (first name escapes me right now!) were blues oriented, and I don't particularly care for their work. I know I'll get some reactions to this comment, but I just think they are as much blues players as they are jazz. Dont quite know how to categorize Shirley Scott. I like her work with Turrentine, but I did have one of her cds with Lockjaw Davis and did not care for it. Her style is uncomplicated and clear. Does she play from a gospel approach? I don't know, but she has her own style and doesn't appear to fall under the Jimmy Smith orbit. Then we have two who were heavily influenced by Jimmy Smith: Richard "Groove" Holmes and Don Patterson. I love Groove's stuff! He's like Jimmy Smith lite, but his music is always consistently good. He played the same way all the way into the grave. Amazingly consistent. God Bless the man. Don Patterson played with a lightning fast right hand somewhat reminiscent of the great Smith, but I think he developed his own style as well. He didn't share Smith's predilection for the grand entrances and atmospheric sounds. I recently bought a lot of Patterson cds and haven't fully heard them all yet. Still evaluating his work, but I like what I've heard so far. Lonnie Smith is not one of my favorites, but I do like his work with Donaldson and some of his work with Benson. The funkmaster had his own style for sure. I don't care for some of the funky soul jazz stuff, but that's my opinion. I do not know how to categorize Jack McDuff. He seems rooted in the blues school but he was more of a jazz player in my opinion. Was he another one caught in the Jimmy Smith orbit? I don't know. I don't have too much of his work, but I think he plays somewhat like Groove Holmes in his "Honeydipper." McDuff is terrific on Grant Green's "Grantstand." Would appreciate other's posters comments about McDuff. Charles Earland to me never got far beyond his early soul jazz masterpiece, "Black Talk!" Everything else he did seems to pale in comparison. He did that electric session called "Out of this World" or something like that. He was not the most innovative soloists, that's for sure, but he had this way of building intensity. His sideman work with Gator Jackson and Lou Donaldson is good. I've got one of his later cds "Front Burner", I believe and he plays fine on that, but it isn't an outstanding cd. Oh yes, almost forgot: "Intensity" with Lee Morgan. This could be Earland's best recording. Excellent music throughout. Needs more listening on my part. I guess I feel that Charles Earland produced a few good records but his overall output isn't that strong. I am still exploring these people and these are just some early thoughts. Would appreciate what others think about these players and others. I know I've left out some of those organists that appear on the Legends of Acid Jazz series. I've also left out Sun Ra. I'll leave those musicians to others who are more competent to describe them.

I went into Best Buy Friday morning to get a camcorder on sale. There was a huge line outside even though the sale was set to end at noon and it was already 10:30. We got in eventually and all the camcorders were gone. We looked for some DVDs and computer games; saw the incredible line at the cashiers which wound snakelike around the building, and just gave up. We walked out emtyhanded. No shopping for me after Thanksgiving.

Watch out for ticks! Seriously.

Come back, Ed!!

Already pm'd my congrats, Evan, before I saw your post here. Yes, the rematch will be big (isn't it always?) I think you guys are a lock for the playoffs now; especially the way you're playing. Cripes, we've got a tough one in Indy this Sunday. It's not on any of the local channels here, but I get to listen on the radio (yippee!! )

I do too. One reason: everyone is likely to have a copy! Some of those AOW are obscure or are likely not to be in most people's collections.

I personally would not hold back buying any title owing to an assumption that it will be RVGd later on. That "later on" could be forever; and it could be never. I really wouldn't be surprised if jazz labels eventually stopped reissuing old jazz titles. I have no evidence either way, but I would simply buy what you want to hear. Those remasterings might never come. When they do come, I do upgrade sometimes, but not always. Depends on how much I like the session and also whether I am unhappy with the recording. Another thing to remember is that the master tapes might be degrading and the earlier recording just might be better. This is apparently the case in regards to one tune from Patton's "The Way I feel." The mosaic has reproduced some kind of tape degeneration. Glad I've got the TOJC! It has put me off the Mosaic.

Great post Jim S!! I've been away from this board for awhile and am dismayed to see this stupid argument raging once again. Well, maybe it isn't a stupid argument; perhaps it is a necessary one. I feel bad for B-3er that this "problem" has surfaced. I am personally surprised at Chris. He has always struck me as quite high minded and quite thick skinned when it came to banter and such. Now he threatens to leave if Wingy stays. I suppose it is natural for people to threaten to leave if another person gets under their skin, but I never would have thought Chris would have been one of those people. If someone pissed me off, I'd fire back a bit then feel bad about it and eventually cool off. I certainly wouldn't call for his banishment. Sorry, Chris I'm not with you on that one. As mentioned before, you guys can tease me all you want, about my sexual orientation, my racial background, my habits. Chances are that I will laugh louder than you. I think a good teasing is a sign of great friendship. Now, I realize there's some venom behind Wingy's comments about Chris, but as Jim Sangrey said, we don't know what's been going on outside the board. This banishing shit pisses me off. I don't like it at all. If you guys can't take someone then ignore him for crying out loud. Wingy's point about all the hits is spot on, in my opinion. People just like controversy and they have a difficult time ignoring it. Wingy is incorrect, however, in assuming that B-3er cares whether it brings more board traffic or whatever. No one gives a shit about that. We've got terrific people here whether it's the core group of Rooster, and Moose, and AB, and the two Jim's, and Ghostie, and Catesta, and Lon, and Weizy and Johnny E, and Joe G. (Sorry for leaving names out: it would go on forever); or whether it's valuable people like Jazz who turns up now and then. We've got a great group of European people like Bev and Couw and others from around the world like Barak and Marcus; plus the knowledgable stars like Chuck, and Michael Fitzgerald and Chris. Ain't NOTHING that will break this group that easily!! GregM didn't do it, and the controversy with Wingy won't affect things either. Bev, I think people have the right to make racist and homophobic statements if they so desire. I also think that other board members will jump on them and call them for it and THAT'S THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS. There's a natural system of checks and balances in human intercourse. This plays out on these boards as well. If someone gets out of line, then they get hammered back into place again. I personally didn't feel that Wingy's "homophobic" comments were worthy of any rebuttal on my part. I did not read an ounce of seriousness in them. Please don't feel that I am disregarding your comments in general. I do believe you have expressed yourself quite well. Jim: (b-3er) I strongly believe that all banishments should be temporary and not permanent. Greg and Kevin and everyone else should be invited back if they want. If they get too far out of line again, then they must be sent back to the cooling tank (solitary confinement ) About the warning system: I don't really know the answer here. They might work so long as no one can view anyone else's warning bar. (Man, you guys should see mine: it's lit up like a Christmas tree!! Another option would be to pm people whenever they're going too far. You know in my real extended family, I've got a sister with whom I've always had a difficult relationship. Right now we're doing fine, but I've had to deal with it. That's how the REAL WORLD works, folks. Learn to deal with other members of this board family. You can't just banish people you don't like from this world. We're not children. Sorry if I'm not articulate here; there's just too much to say. Peace.

I think the Cowgirls will take the Phins. Sorry Evan...you know who I'm rooting for here. -_-

DINGY, I personally have no problem if DEEP DRINKER decides to show up. B) I guess I see your point. BTW: you can have as much fun with me personally, or my persona or whatever. I like a lot of jive. In fact: I tease those WHOM I LIKE THE MOST!! If I'm not wholly comfortable with my relationship with someone then I don't dare tease em. Make sense??? Now where's Johnny and Jacknife, my favorite whipping boys?

Actually, my vote is for all of us to show up in Lansing, Michigan for the big party. Home of Organissimo!! We can all show up at Joe's house with guns!

Wingy, I agree that those who don't like your style should just ignore you, but you can't expect people like Christiern to do it when you mention their names in your posts.