JSngry

What I heard there sounded to me like a routine. The phrasing was about as impeccable as you could ask for, but I sensed that she would have sung it just about that way every time out. So that leaves, for lack of a better term, "spirit". And frankly, unlike the earlier stuff, I didn't hear any. If she was as drunk as some of the stories say she was, maybe that's it. Maybe she had just drunk herself into a shell from which she had no intent of ever coming out. Or not. It's not something I can really get invested in, so I'll leave it to those for whom it is to figure that one out.

The generational thing is (was? now that everything's getting all standardized) presented a challenge to the guys who decided to keep hiring younger players rather than stick w/their own (or those were willing to "play the style"). Horace Silver insisted on guys who would play his style. Blakey began the decade willing to be a little more open (I've been checking out those Prestige sides again over the last few weeks & am very delighted again) before turning back. Mingus basically wanted guys who would play his heads right and then get off into their own thing when solo time came. From what I've heard, the Adams/Pullen/Bluiett band was a bit of a mess, not being overly concerned with even the heads, but when Walrath came aboard, things tightened up overall, and the band hit a stride of its own (which was, of necessity, a different stride than the Mingus bands of an earlier generation). The Ford/Neloms and never really got officially documented on its own, but on the Danny Richmond side that had a quintet version of "Cumbia & Jazz Fusion", they sound like they were getting their own identity together. What I like about those later bands (what is available of them) is how they came to speak the Mingus language with their own dialect. Ther was no way that George Adams in 1974 could have - or should have - sounded like Eric Dolphy (or even Clifford Jordan) in 1964. It was a different time in every way. But compare his rather undisciplined playing on Moves & the Carnegie Hall jam session to the sensitive & disciplined playing he turns in on Changes & I think you gotta say that the overriding Mingus ethos had finally penetrated his, at least for a little while. If you're going to hire younger generations and not explicitly require that they "play your style", but instead allow them to find their own voices within it, that's about as good as you can hope for, and really, what more would you hope for? Especially when even Dannie Richmond had been to town and back again! The situation also gets complicated, I think, by Mingus' illnesses throughout the 70s. If the Preistly bio is to be believed, he only had a year or two out of the decade where he was both mentally and physically firing on all cylinders like in the old days. Perhaps not coincidentally, those were the years when the Adams/Pullen/Walrath band really hit its stride. That band definitely requires "different ears" to hear it relative to the great 50s/60s bands (just as it takes "different ears" to hear 40s & early 50s Mingus relative to what came after), but I do think it established an identity, a strong and valid identity, all its own.

At some point, 5-10 years from now, I think a McCoy Milestone set is going to be necessary.

When you say "peaked", to me that implies that it's all downhill after that, even if it's from "great" to "pretty good". I think that Miles & Mingus both continued to make great music into the '70s, although for both there were struggles to get there, unlike before. For Miles it was a matter of inventing/developing new templates, for Mingus it was more personal/psychological/medical. Plus, these were now "elder statesmen instead of the Hot Cats Of The Day. Both responded quite strongly, each in their own way. I don't know that Mingus could/would have been able to write material like that on Changes One in the 50s or 60s. And I know that Miles would not have been able to make Agartha in those decades. Although it's a personal interpretation of the word, I don't like to say that one has already "peaked" just because one begins to experience difficulties. Difficulties are often enough precursors to growth, and when one has already established a "public profile" it becomes more difficult to shelter those difficult periods from the public eye. For me, a "peak" ends when an irreversible decline begins. Prior to that, I think it would be fair to note that neither Miles nor Mingus had sustained peaks in their musics as they once had. But these were still lions capable of producing some ferocious roars, roars that commanded attention, respect, and if you were so inclined, awe, and often enough for it to not be an anamoly. If that means that they had already "peaked" so be it. But that's a concept around which I can't get my head.

Beautiful weather in Dallas today, maybe the server got egged last night?

BTW, it's not so much that I'm an archivist as it is that I'm of a certain age as to have bought both of those albums "in their time". Wasn't really thrilled with eitehr, then or now, although between the two of them there's tunes that also appeared on the Hutcherson/Land San Francisco album, so there's the comparison thing to be done if one so wishes.

As Mike notes, that was the last one. Pass The Plate (also on Chisa) was their first as "The Crusaders".

Not to nitpick, but that LP was actually released on Hugh Masekela's Chisa label, which at the time was distributed by Motown. MoJazz was the label for the CD release.

Unsung Heroes might also be of interest.

Well, having said that, I'd be remiss if I didn't note that studio techniques/electronics/etc can also open up talent as well as prop up a lack of it. Ultimately, technology is nothing but a tool, so how that tool is used becomes more important than the tool's mere existence. Also, and I've used this analogy before, the way rock/pop/etc are pieced together is not at all unlike the way movies are made, and I'm ok with that, just as long as the dialogue around the end product recognizes that both are "productions", not "performances", and then we all proceed accordingly. Which we usually don't, either friend or foe.

I think that Changes One is the last, indisputably classic "Mingus album". Not even Changes Two, fine as it is, quite measures up. Truthfully, I think that you could take all of One, add the first side of Two, and have a really nice stand-alone suite. If the session would have been done in the CD age, maybe that's what they'd have done. This was the working band, and they were tight. After that, it was all "projects", some better than others (Cumbia and Jazz Fusion is a strong album, I think), but Changes One is...classic, in every sense of the word. Classic band, classic tunes, classic format, hell, even classic Mingus label. And while we're discussing potentially overlooked masterpieces, Let My Children Hear Music indeed! Mingus, like Miles, did not peak before the 70s, so to look at his output through the "popular" lens of Classic = 1950s & 1960s is going to result in some unnecessary oversights.

Let me say it again - Changes One. Ignore at your peril!

Indeed....

Possibly, but maybe not...there's definitely an audience for this type thing, but it is younger & not Mosaic-y in inclination. Me, I'm down for it. Maybe one of the BGP people could do it.

Yeah, really. The world of rock music albums is so dependent on studio players & "post-production" that far more often than not the only way to really assess skill is live, and nowadays, even that ain't necessarily "real"...

Oh, it was a skills issue, then. I gotcha'. I thought it was maybe a character issue or something, and that had me kinda...wondering.

How did one leave the 50s-era Ferguson band "under a cloud"?

At the height of Cream-Mania, Ginger talked some ego-fueled smack about jazz drummers, and some jazz drummers smacked back, rightly seeing him not qualified to be talking the kind of smack he was talking. He was/is a "good drummer", fit Cream just fine, went on to do some "interesting" projects, but he was not a "great" drummer, then or now. But a "bad drummer"? Nah, not even.

I think the pre-prison stuff has been pretty well covered on single issues, the post-prison stuff slightly less so. The later stuff is generally viewed as more "commercial" (and not without reason), but there is some strong playing by Ammons to be heard there, much of it unlike anything earlier. Bottom line, though - both sets would be nice!

I'll be 54 in December. Where do you see me "wishing for" death?

Gene Ammons' post-prison Prestige sides.

Didn't know that Bill Chase was with Woody in 1959. Was he a pick-up player as well, and if so, from where? Kenton?

Please explain what that means.

Indeed it would!