JSngry

The Hub Of Hubbard (MPS) will always be special to me. That stuff is just nuts, and in the best possible way.

Hate to hear this...really hate to hear this... I've been thinking a lot about Freddie lately, and have come to the conclusion that so much of the criticism he's received over the years might be fair, but in the grand scheme of things is besides the point, unless the point is that it's better to be a wuss and be "right" than it is to be a man (or woman, adult, grownup , whatever works for whoever you are/want to be/need to be/are trying to be/in the process of becoming)) and be wrong. I know there's all sorts of unpleasant repercussions that can come from that attitude, but there's also some bodaciously good ones as well. Life's like that sometimes, ain't it now... Here's to being able to play the trumpet (or just do anything) really, really well, here's to being able to navigate the most simple and the most difficult musics with equal aplomb, here's to feeling good about being able to do that, and most of all, here's to not feeling the least bit guilty about feeling good about being able to do that. In short, here's to life, with all it's ups, downs, triumphs, and fuckups. I'd not want a jazz that was all Freddie Hubbards, but I'd for damn sure even less want one without him. Carpe diem, I believe I heard the man say...

Curtis Fuller Walter "Gil" Fuller Gilbert Fullerton Curry: http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse....s=SEO&hc=20

Pliny the Elder Plunky & The Magic Of Juju

Low Donaldson mow the g.d. yard when Lou Donaldson want to mow the g.d. yard, dammit.

In the context of that thread, yeah, it was musical. But rest assured that I'm very much of the mind that very little (if anything!) ever occurs in a vacuum.

It's my hunch that "real" as it pertains to things like this (as opposed to that tree your car is headed for, is it "real" or not? ) is that the less you know of any other way, the more real it is, and vice-versa. That, and how willing/able you are to realize that damn near everything "we" hold dear "today" was at some point upsetting to plenty of other folk. Paradigmes evolve, which means that eventually old ones change as old ones die & new ones are created. Generations can come and go and only experience the evolution. Only a rare few get to live through the actual change. We're shaping up to be one of those rare few generations. And so it goes.

I've commonly (although not necessarily accurately) heard the appellation credited to Izzy Sanabria.

And FWIW, Cox & Co. would not be considered "post-Trane", at least not in the sense of being "avant-garde" or "free".

My least favorite Turrentine/Scott BN session. Still good, but not magic. Just my opinion.

But no longer loaded...

oooOOOOooooh! NICE!

I mean, hey - a winking campanero, tell me that these cats aren't flying high in the sky of life!

And lest any doubt remain: When El Gran Combo wins at life, we ALL win at life!

I think that what happened is that charanga bands got a commercial window in the aftermath of the whole cha-cha-cha craze, and that that's where your Fajardo sides and my earlier charanga sides came from. Lots of "Latin" music for people who really don't know/want Latin music... Some name bands just churning out product, it seems. The stuff is really functional and not too much else, and either a lot of it got recorded and left in the bins for me to find 15-20 years later or else my charanga karma just like really sucked for far too long. I did get lucky with one purchase, though, a charanga side by Alfredito Valdes (on Tru-Sound A Prestige subsidiary, produced by Ozzie Cadena and recorded by RVG!) that had Chombo Silva on violin throughout. Now that one had some groove!

I really dig the liquidity of Fajardo's tone, the way the notes swim together yet still retain their percussiveness. He's rather unique in that regard, I think. But no, he's not always "fiery" either. As far as the "New York" thing, hey, I'm not even close to being even a psedo-expert. I just dig the stuff, played it some over the years, and don't shy away form the records. But I have no real "scholarly" background in the music, just the basics (and the awareness that as a rule, Cubans really don't respect Puerto Rican salsa. I had that point made to me several times rather, uh,,,fervently!). All I know for sure is that when I first started getting hip to salsa, all the charanga sides I got hold of were real "polite". Now I know Aragon, yeah, that's their thing, always has been, that's pretty much their roots, and I respect that. But all the Broadway and other NY bands I heard, teh sides were all exceedingly polite. And....a society band is still a society band, if you know what I mean. So hearing some livelier and friskier charanga was a real awakening as to what else the genre could do.

Can't say "charanga" w/o mentioning Jose Fajardo! I have this side on Panart LP and hold it quite dear: I used to have a thing against charanga, only had heard the NYC "society" version of it, but then went to one of those great Salsa-Meets-Jazz things at the Village Gate back in the summer of 1980(?), and the intermission band (i.e. - the one who was there strictly to play for dancing) was a charanga group with an apparently Caucasian female flautist (wonder if it was Connie Grossman?), and jack, those suckers rocked the house BIG time. So I turned on a dime about charanga right then and there. Here's a good (and highly quirky!) clip from Orq. Broadway that captures a bit of what charanga can do when not played "politely", as one might be led to believe is how it is usually played: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=084TLlTVmks...feature=related

Wow - I'd love a copy of that one. Have never seen it ! 'Unpredictable' is a pretty accurate description. Actually that's one of the very few "Jazz In Hollywood" series LPs on Liberty that I don't have. I'd like to listen to that one too but OTOH it has one side of instrumentals and one side of vocals and that bad, bad, bad review of the vocals in Down Beat really frightened me away. Even if I disregard the fact that the DB reviews aren't necessarily the final word I know my taste as far as MALE vocals in 50s jazz go, so I definitely would not be prepared to pay top money for such an item (and on eBay I would have had to shell out top money each time I bookmarked that one - at least way more that I'd have been prepared to spend). A candidate for a Fresh Sound reissue?? FWIW, I have this one, found it at a rural East Texas junk shop a long time ago. It's not anything really noteworthy, imo. Some who have heard White's Nocturne/Jazz In Hollywood album say that it is significantly better than this Liberty side. But I keep it anyway, just for the cover.

Here we go: But that's not Woody. Looks more like John McCain!

Well yes, of course, but...there doesn't seem to be one set notion of what actually sounds good. Not that there should be, but I'm just saying that that's a notion that everybody agrees upon until it comes time to put it into practice. I mean, I've had people say that latter-day Lee Konitz "sounds like a baby", and it's not racially motivated nearly as much as it is experiential. To these people, he really does sound like a baby, they don't have an experiential reference to hear it any other way, and all I can do is accept that we don't relate to Lee Konitz in even remotely the same way and leave it at that. Same with the people who tell me that Wild Bill Moore sounds "unrefined". All I can say is that if it's good to you, then it is good - to you. Beyond that, things can get weird in a big hurry.

David, that's the way it should be done, imo, get the real thing from the real cats, learn the lessons, and then put it to your own uses, build your own language from an informed experience of those who had their own. I have no quibble with that at all. It's the whole ideological thing that gets my goose in the juice. That's where too many lies end up getting told, believed, and built upon. MG, when I say "work", I'm thinking specifically of the Marsailis movement. It's working, there's a whole school of players there, and they don't seem to stop coming along. They've heard the arguments against, and they are not persuaded to do anything else. so hey, a lot of us think it's all a lie, but they don't , and they have built their own world. So for "us" to argue against it in the face of it's ongoing existence and even thriving might not be anything other than pissing in the wind because we like a warm wet breeze, if you know what I mean.

Maybe you should change your first name to Knate?

You'd rather we argue about Leslie Caron?