JSngry

Hey BN - I see you changed your attribution form Coryell to Duke. Cool!

Well then, let's go back to a compliment that actually sounded like one: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...st&p=171891 Of course, given how your views have evolved since that post was written, I can understand if the pendulum has gone backward on Hamilton for you. Well yeah, maybe, but here's the deal - I still kinda dig Hamilton, that hasn't changed, it's just that I really don't care if I hear him or not. Same with lots of stuff, just knowing it's out there and knowing that it's good is enough for me. Why? Because that stuff ain't going anywhere, if you know what I mean, and right now, I myself feel a need to "move", and spending time at places like this ain't gonna get that done. But hey, if I do hear Hamilton (or lots of other things) today, it's still good, I don't recoil in horror or TimeTrap Phobia or anything like that. Fun is where you find it after all, and I'm always good for some fun. It's "where you live" that I'm looking at, and yeah, that's something else, but fun? Hey, if there ain't no room for fun....fuck it. And ok, "lack of substance", that's not exactly what I meant to convey. Maybe lack of "substance" would have been better, meaning that Hamilton has never been about pushing him, The Music, or anything "forward", nor has he ever been about Making Grand Statements or anything. He's just been about playing how he plays as well as he can and that's that. Which, actually, I admire. And unlike many players today of whom it can be said that what they do is all they do, the guy really has developed a natural swing, for which I really do think he can thank his R&B roots. I mean, when I was younger (and it's only gotten moreso), the younger "serious" jazz players were not playing for and with a "dance impulse", which is another matter altogether & which may or may not be satisfying depending on just where you end up going, but the point is, that 4/4, foot-patting swing, that could be found in one type of lounge bands & non-funk R&B/blues bands, and there, that was pretty much the name of the game. As I've heard it, Hamilton was around the same scene that produced Roomful Of Blues, who always copped a nice 4/4 swinging dance beat. Those type bands were part of my "training period" just as much as the free groups, funk bands, and "serious jazz" groups I played in (then as now, I'm pretty much a musical slut - and proud of it! ) The point being that you can develop all the "stylistic trappings" of a "Swing Tenorist" playing those musics and not ever have to confront the innards thereof. Which is ok by me, because your goal is to play what makes people want to feel good where they are, not to write a doctoral dissertation on the different ways that Ben Webster altered the timbre of a middle Bb, if you know what I mean. The downside to that is that, hey, you can still put some more "meat" in there and not lose the gig, if you know what I mean. But that's what's so cool about life - there's other people who do that, so rather than just bitch about what somebody's not, you can appreciate the/whatever beauty that they do have and then move on elsewhere when/if you want something else. No, it's not all good, but it's more good than a lot of us readily recognize, even if it is fragmented all over the place like a mofo. It would sure be easier if it wasn't, but whatcha gonna do 'bout that, eh?

#9 must be this: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&a...10:gzftxqygldte #13 this: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&a...10:gbfqxq95ldje and therein lies some real life - my first listen to this BFT was Thursday night. I peeped Yusef immediately, & Dakota, well, it sure sounded like them, but I'd never heard of such a pairing. Friday afternoon, I was out & about & saw this LP in a shop. Wondering "hmmmm, could it be?" I looked at it & saw no mention Yusef, or a woodwindist for that matter. But there was this song title, "Play Your Hands, Girls" that was all, "hey...it's GOTTA be...". Nut I didn't want to lay out the bread for the side until I knew. Now I know, so in the morning I go!

Yeah, for us old folks, having Don Pardo on SNL was kind of an inside joke.

And I mean that as a compliment, of sorts, even though it doesn't sound like one.

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...st&p=172279 Dan - Hamilton's R&B Background was not initially publicized, no doubt for "image" reasons, but later came out in interviews, and now is sorta "common knowledge". It's a non-issue afaic, other than for every bit of good it did him in one circle (Concord worked that shit, I was around then, & I remember it well), it did him just as much bad in another, because he really wasn't some "Swing Kid", and a lot of the flak he took was precisely because he was being looked at in the light of being something that he wasn't. But it was more..."convenient" (if ultimately more irritating) to paint the picture of a Swing Kid than it was an R&B player who naturally gravitated backwards. Larry - As far as the stylistic "misunderstanding" or whatever it is, keep in mind that Hamilton doesn't bother me, nor does he thrill me, but I look at it like he plays how he plays precisely because he's not a Swing Kid, and thank god for that. It may be "wrong" or "out of context" or whatever, but only if you look at it like he's really a "student" of these older, classic styles, and I don't think he is. I think he's just a bar band player who plays what he knows how he knows it w/o putting a lot of stock in too much else. Considering how many "studied" players turn out shit that really pisses me off, I kinda like how Hamilton's lack of pretense & lack of substance kinda balance each other out.

JESSE BELVIN????? Wow, who knew? Well, you did, obviously, but... Never heard him in this context before. Fascinating.

Usual thanks & disclaimers in place PLUS a big tip o'the derby to Big Al for the CDR hookup (got it JUST last night) & a disclaimer that I'm borrowing my son's PC for this post, so I don't know if I'll get finished or not. Will keep it short wioth that in mind. Otherwise... TRACK ONE - Hawk & Thad, must be that Crown ting. Never have heard that, guess I need to, because this is right there. OUT-standing! TRACK TWO - Gotta be that Pony Poindexter sax orgy side. On the one hand, I'd have rather heard fewer players at greater length, but on the other hand, the steady contrast of voices keeps the immediacy there kinda de facto. Either way, great writing, freat playing, great vibe, just all 'round greatness. TRACK THREE - Took me a second, but...Johnny Mathis! With Gil! (?) Never have heard these, but now I got to. Heard of them though, and I'm thinking, yeah, Johnny Mathis, jazz singer, what the hell ever. But the cat deals. Kinda coy, but there's a place for that. And the chart, hey, those of us who pondered whether or not that was a Gil thing on the Jo Stafford YouTube, well...this is nice! Except I went to post a AMG link to the album I thought it was on, and...that ain't it. So a search ensued, and....is this it? http://cdbaby.com/cd/davidpatrone I like my first guess better. Well, found a sample of that, and that's not eitehr, so Mathis/Evans on a Rare Collector's Item remains a possibility! Whatever, I like it, and I suspect it's older than newer. TRACK FOUR - Don't like this one so much. Not feeling it. Sorry. TRACK FIVE - "Falling In Love With Love", Budd Johnson, RVG studio. That's all I can say with certainty. Here we go http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&a...10:kxfyxqlgldse Budd was a baaaaad man! All kinds of things going on is playing, so much music. I'd never noticed until now the similarity between his tone & Oliver Nelson's. Learn something every day, thank god! This is beautiful. TRACK SIX - "Go Red Go", the Arnett Cobb jam, but this ain't him (but his version w/Jaws will raise the dead and then swing them back to death!). One of these guys kinda sounds like an older Red Holloway, which I tend to groove on slightly less than a younger Red Holloway, but which is still a damn sight better than no Red Holloway at all. Both guys sound a little old, as in wiser but slower, which hey, I guess it's gotta be like that. But old or not, they're feelin' it, and so am I. Good stuff. TRACK SEVEN - Clifford Jordan. Maybe from that larger ensemble album he did for Muse, the one with the lead sheet on the cover. Dizzy Reece & Pat Patrick, iirc. Or maybe not his date at all. But definitely him. The chart's a bit fussy, and he sounds a little "off" (just not fully engaged), so I'd file it under Good Idea That Shoulda Gone Better. But much love for all concerned anyways. TRACK EIGHT - Classic. Always interesting to hear Rouse away from Monk from this time. Sheds light on a lot of things, I think. And yeah - CLASSIC! TRACK NINE - "If You Could See Me Now"... you might be a little worried...soulful, sure, but sounds kinda almost out of control, like the cats usually a really together player but here he's more than a little loaded. VERY nice tenor, though. I mean, I've not led a sterling lifestyle, if you know what I mean, but you hear somebody play like this, and it's kinda sad. Some guys, the lifestyle doesn't take a noticable "technical" toll, or at least they keep it together for recording. But this guy is so almost there that a little more sobriety, and those attacks wouldn't have been so "OOOPS" and stuff like that, and we could be talking a very fine performance here instead of what ultimately is a curiosity, at least for me. TRACK TEN - Claire & Warne. Gotta love Warne, no matter what. "Lennie's Pennies" is the Warne Bomb on this album, but I already included that on a BFT way back when, so here ya' go, and THANK YOU! Claire's a most interesting writer as well, I think. This is relatively slight, but...not THAT slight, especially that sax soli, which is WHOA! TRACK ELEVEN - MOODY! UNMISTAKABLY! But from where, I got no idea. I love Moody, the cat just keeps growing. And SUCH a tenor player! Go ahead Moody! Much love. TRACK TWELVE - Not feeling this one either. I got no problem with older style, just not feeling this performance. TRACK THIRTEEN - Yusef! And...Dakota Staton? WTF IS THIS????? I need to know.... God bless Yusef Lateef. TRACK FOURTEEN - "Day In Day Out". Frank Stroizer? Bunky Freen? Something "Chicago"-ian about it and the recording...Vee-Jay? No matter...some deeply involving playing here, superficially "just" bop, but listen a little closer, and you hear that choices are being made, hardly any of them easy ones. Gotta love that. TRACK FIFTEEN - Wayne for two pianos. Danko/Lightsey? Never got around to hearing that one... it's nice, if a bit cluttered. How much of thati s the playing and how much is the recording, I don't know. Little of each, I suspect. Nice, but Wayne's tone on the original...can't get that out of my head, ever. Jack, thanks for such a superb collection of music, nothing here that's cheap or common. Kudos to you, and again, Big Thanks to Big Al for the hookup!

Ok, I got the fresh Sounds CD A Day In New York, have found a Carlton LP of some of it, just found a Perfect (label - a subsidiary of Epic, & how low down the food chain is a subsidiary of a subsidiary anyhow?) of some more of it, but the question remains - how the hell did this marathon session come about? Was it all on spec? Some of it? Who produced it? I mean, there's a lot of fine playing going on here, and it's just like Scott hired a band, a studio, and let it roll, with no mind as to who got the results except that somebody would somewhere, sometime. Pretty cool, but I'd like to know the story anyway (as well as how it all came out originally). As always, thanks in advance!

Got out of the house today for recreational shopping, went to a HP, and SCORED!

But on the other hand, if I ever fail to get a spiritual hardon from Lockjaw Davis, it's time to check out. So its not all black and white, even though it is. Nobody said that omnidimensional reality was gonna be easy. :g :g

I've been able to get a few glimpses along the way of this work as it was being constructed. Like all Belden-isms, it's intriguing in concept, to say the least, and not without substantial musical interest as well, although, yeah, some of it works better for me than does other. But 's there's no lack of vision, that's for sure!

That's another things I've gotten tired of - "blues" & "song form", at least as "format" (and that word alone implies a bit of utilitarian exploitation of something Bigger & Better, doesn't it?). The former is so primal an impulse that, like the Old Testament edict against speaking the name of g-d, thinking of of it "as "blues" these days seems to automatically create a three-dimensional constraint for something that is really omniversal. The latter was in large part created as a commerce-friendly format, and if some people found a way to make "art" in it, that's all well and good, but...the need for "attractive presentations" of constructed representations still exists, but "repetitive & linear" is pretty much not gonna do much these days except offer The Comfort Of Days Gone By, while meanwhile bandits galore will thrive on the distraction & gleefully pick our mental & spiritual (and literal) pockets clean until one day we wake up no longer knowing or even having a reasonably good guess as to what or where "here" is. Exceptions still exist, to be sure, but I'm just sayin'.... It's all good in theory, but if we can actually manipulate these forms "politically", then that tells me that the Once Omnipotent Goddess has been tamed and is now a Whore In Waiting - or worse. Real Music, like Real Life cannot be tamed. Channeled, focused, directed, etc. yeah, sure. But tamed & pimped out? Uh-uh. Never. The good news is that The Goddess, knowing what her fate was to be, had a baby or two beforehand & put them in some baskets in some marshes here and there. So be prepared!

That's not entirely accurate, since I do still revisit old favorites and such with vim vigor & vitality galore, but not entirely inaccurate either, since now I know I'm hearing beautiful spirits, eternal spirits, speaking eternal truths in very temporal languages. I feel blessed that I still hear/fell these languages, but it's the speaking of them that started bugging me. I've mentioned before how I was getting good, too good, at faking this "in the moment" thing, how there's a whole set of gestures that can be equated with the real thing when they are in fact just that - gestures. That started getting really weird for me as a player, and I needed to find someplace without all those "forgone conclusions". I found it, but it wasn't where or what I expected it to be, But oh well about that. That's gonna be how it works if that's what it really is, right? Comfort, stability, all that, hey - it's really dumb to live this long and not have some of that, lots of it even. But I have a deathly fear of that spot on the pendulum swing continuing over into complacency. And that can happen, I've seen it all over the place all over they years, and I started falling into it myself. "Discovering backwards", something I've done pretty much all my life, had run its course for me, so I decided to not do that any more, jsut to see what, if anything, was there. Well hell, I've found enough "there" to keep me -or somebody with a like mind but more time & energy - busy for a good long time. Again, it's not about "leaving" anything behind. If anything, it's about bringing it along so it don't atrophy and shit. There's so much that hasn't been done yet, but it won't/can't get done by doing the same thing only different, if you know what I mean. Which is not to say that I think it's everybody's moral obligation to keep moving when/where/if they don't want to, just that if Miles' thing was all about just vanity, then the music wouldn't have stayed as involved, intricate, and interesting as it did, even as it turned more and more into pop. Beyond vanity (and hell, when was there ever not vanity with Miles?), there's the whole notion of confronting popular culture head on, not to be "current" or anything, but to stake a claim of entitlement instead of settling for one of what for all intents and purposes ends up being involuntary marginalization (with "rewards" - and not just material ones, I'm talking respect here, and all the comfort & stability that that brings - to match). I like that, that works for me, and that's where I'm at now. Stable like a mofo as far as what and where I've been, but not taking anything for granted, now, or hopefully ever, about where the future is going to lead, and yes - hoping, expecting it to lead somewhere other than a stationary remainder or an infinite backwards. We'll all get there soon enough!

Thrilled to see you back too, Guy, just wish the circumstances were different. Teo was a tough customer, a fully-equipped musician/composer as well as a solid producer and innovative post-productionist. My respect for him has only grown the more more I realize just how badass a cat he really was. Once again - purchasing of some items from the Teo Records catalog from CD baby would not be an unrewarding movve for many here. Trust me.

Belden took away all the post-production reverb, so you get a very natural sounding listening experience. Natural, but more than a little disconcerting if you['ve lived with the Lp for a few decades. But it takes care of itself in short order.Tony in particular comes into greater focus, and lordy merci, ain't that a good thing, especially since this is probably the last recorded exampleof his "classic" style (either this or Gil's There Comes A Time, but the ensemble vibe is so different there so as to make it a whole 'nother thing anyway...) I'd forgotten about that Clarke-Boland thing, yeah, that's a doozy! And sorry friends, but I'm with Larry on Focus. Mickey One, too.

System crash & reliance on borrowed machines meant no at leisure download/preview/review of the 2nd half of BFT 2. Big Al was nice enough to mail me the discs, which I literally just recieved. I'm a bit frazzled now, but I got access, so now, here we go on to Part Two of Disc Two: TRACK EIGHT: Mid 50s, I'd guess...Mundell Lowe, Johnny Smith, Mary Osborne, one of those real "guitarristic" guitarists...tenor player...waaaay familiar... Prez-intuitive, very derivative but still personal, a nice feat...kinda like earlier Allan Eager...damn, I can't call the name, but when you tell me I'll know Nice enough, a bit snoozy these days, but no doubt "cozy" in its own, and that counts. TRACK NINE - Drummer seems to be pulling from Chico Hamilton's conceptual bag, whereas the tune sounds like yet another variant on Water Babies-era Miles (and if that album had never been released, would we still have this song?), then it goes briefly into the Poinciana bag... Trumpeter is really copping Miles...Eddie Henderson? Nah, Eddie had moved beyond that by the time this was recorded....one of the "Young Lions" type players, probably...Wallace Roney? Hey, wait, for a quick minute behind the piano solo, I heard Tony, and then it all started sounding like Tony. Yeah, that's Tony, unmistakeably....now Billy Pierce...never really worked for me, that guy....excellent musician, though, no dis meant. So, Tony's 80s band, a good one, but with material and performances more to my liking than this one. But - it makes the Water Babies thing more sensible, and even "valid", whatever that means. TRACK TEN - "Road Song", of course. Flabbyass out of tune Ron Carter on bass? He's gotta know better, if this is him, and if it ain't him, then the producer should've intervened & TCBed. Getting into it, I don't hink it is. One guitar overdubbed, or two, or who cares? This is the kind of "retro" playing that really irks me...no sense of time or place other than "classic jazz", it's not really jazz, it's....jazz about jazz. And that bassist, god bless him, keeps "interacting" with two/three other guys who just sit there and read off the time capsule. Frustrating all the way around for me, but I guess there's a market. TRACK ELEVEN - Rabbit, and more from that Columbia (sounding) studio...what is this "Stompy Jones"? Sweets? Yeah, this shit is real, in-time/realtime life coming out as music. Sure, there's history, personal & collective, but it's their, not somebody else's, and they don't have to "think about what it must've been like"....dig the guitarist....Jo Jones on drums? Jimmy Jones on piano? Doesn't sound percussive enough to be Duke...man, this could go on forever right where it is and never get old....that right there is a big difference between self-real and "tribute to"...hell yeah... "it's" over, can't bring it back, but as long as we got records like this, we don't need to, we can make our own our own way. Again, HELL YEAH. TRACK TWELVE - I should know this, but the specifics of this era are not my forte. But I know enough to say that this ain't in no way "average" playing...ok, is that Honeyboy Cedric? Fats? HOLY SHIT - LISTEN TO THE TEMPO @ 1:29 WTF WAS THAT ALL ABOUT? Wow... very weird...was this an alternate take or something...oh well, hey, still...gotta give it up! TRACK THIRTEEN - Fred Wesley. Unmistakable. Stronly urge reading his autobiography btw. Sounds recent, not vintage, but it's still got that JB's groove solid down. But I'd recommend checking out Hell if you haven't already, especially the sidelong "Papa Don't Take No Mess". That's some crazyass shit right there. But this is good too, damn good. TRACK FOURTEEN - Bobby?...later on, maybe even a Columbia side (those were and still are overlooked/underrated, imo). Well, maybe not Bobby, Rhodes solos first...me, I love the Rhodes, not as a "substitute" for a "real" piano, but as a thing unto itself. It's a real treat hearing all the "dance underground" shit that loves them some Rhodes too...man, this is some happening shit! Rhythm section is bouncing all off of each other real nicely...This ain't Hampton Hawes by any chance is it? Definitely not a Bobby side, but sounds like a tune he could have/would have played. I dig this! TRACK FIFTEEN - Charlie Brown music? Kinda like "Lush Life" only with mathematical displacement of the root movements, if you know what I mean (and if you don't, hell, don't sweat it, it's tongue in cheek any ways...sort of)...nice, not gonna be on my main menu or anything (at least not right now), but it sure is nice. BIG KUDOS to Al for the above and beyond in getting me this material on his own dime and time, and for also including #55 as well. What a guy! And a fine collection of music as well. Thanks!

Jazz Giants '56 is a good place to start, but if you're like me, even the "saddest" late Prez will end up speaking deeply. Also, there's airshots (Royal Roosy?) of Prez ca. '49 or so that are quite lively and frisky. The Charlie PArker Records sides (recorded at a dance, iirc) are kinda mixed, but when they're good, they're the best Bottom line, though, for me, although I'm not compulsive about it, I will buy any Lester Young recording which I do not already have on sight, and I will not be disappointed. I do think that his later years have been revisionisit-ized, critically, and appropriately so. He might have "spoken" differently, but he still spoke strongly and truthfully, up until the very end.

Not a Getz album, but some of my favorite Getz, playing to which I seem to always almost compulsively return, is on Abbey Lincoln's You Gotta Pay The Band.

Never mind the bollards, where's the sex videos?

Well, ya'know, if the world changes/evolves & the music don't (or if the music changes/evolves in a way that makes it about keeping away from life rather than engaging in it), that's gonna make for some....awkward confrontations at some point. Monday Michiru saved my life. As have, previously, a lot of jazz musicians' music. What they all did was reawaken that life and music both are not to be experienced in any but the fullest state of co-intimacy & immediacy, and that you gotta be where you are to get where you wanna go. "Looking back" is not at all a bad thing, but "living back"....hmmmm.... not for me, I'll put it like that.

Dammit, Sonny... :angry: :angry: Bret Primack, can you help?

Yep. REALLY like Captain Marvel, after years of preferring Sweet Rain and finding the later album a little "corny" (mostly all because of Getz' playing). Now, my opinion has reversed, Sweet Rain has a little kernelized patina on it these days. Sure didn't see that one coming... But Belden's idiosyncratic choice to dry the Columbia side up/out really lifted the music out for me, and now, WHOA! The later (i.e. - the final few years) sides, I think are just beyond beauty. Not often do you get to hear somebody confront death (and life) at such length and so majestically and poetically and....triumphantly. There's a depth of soul there that very few artists, even Getz himself earlier on, get to in their life. The ones that do are blessed far beyond the norm, as are we with whom they share. Getz, perhaps against all odds (or not...) was one of them.

The chronology smells a little fishy to me, but in no way do I know enough thereof to have any but an extremely casual opinion, so I shouldn't even be posting. But I hate to see a 0 Reply thread.

Thom Keith, there's another example of a new guy who shows up and just starts chatting, not being show or anything, just speaking from the heart, honest, real-life shit, and I mean, hey, I'm thinking that he's been here a lot longer than he really has. It's good to have him here, seems like a good human being, ya'know?