DrJ

Well, I hear what you're saying, and there is truth to it for sure. But fundamentally, I think we will probably have to continue to disagree regarding the balance of harm/good entailed by this type of offer. That's cool, though, there is certainly room for diversity of opinion just as there is room for people of all ethnicities/backgrounds! B)

Thanks Ed and Daniel A, for some reason I couldn't get there from Ed's URL but the one Daniel A posted got me there.

Swinging Swede has hit on the $10,000 question as far as I'm concerned. This type of thinking exhibited by this undoubtedly well-intentioned preacher, beyond the concerns I mentioned above, plays into stereotyping rather than breaking down barriers and calling into question how much one's self-identified external color enters into social, religious, and other choices and behaviors. Place of birth and being raised, early social experiences, parenting, education, socioeconomics, and many other factors play into life choices and behaviors far more than self-identified race does (yes, it's a factor, but not nearly as large a factor as tabloids and the popular press would have people believe). Lon's experiences illustrate that nicely. It's just that in the U.S. everyone has bought into the party line about color being seemingly the MAJOR determinant of seemingly everything. This issue of self-identified race as a very weak variable in determining a variety of outcomes and behaviors comes up in some well-intentioned but ultimately misguided medical "research" too lately, that purports to disclose differences in drug responses between "black" and "white" patients without defining that beyond self-identification (which may be useful from a social science standpoint for sure but don't say a whole hell of a lot about varying response to drug metabolism based on genetics!). The differences in "black" and "white" are so small (and sometimes nonexistant) that when they do exist, they are most likely representative of statistical chance. A slippery slope built on pseudo-science, one which could end up with ridiculous conclusions such as "black people shouldn't take drug X, which has been shown to reduce mortality from disease Y, because it won't work" when in fact that is not the case for many people who self-identify as black. The "conclusions" of this research merely serves to institutionalize racism in medicine...as does a well-meaning preacher saying "gee, we need more white people from our community in this church." How about simply, we need more PEOPLE from our community in this church?

Ed, when I try that link I'm getting a "page cannot be displayed" message - do you have any other URL? Thanks in advance.

While I may disagree with Greg on many points, I also don't see the point in trying to "debunk" SACD and DVD-A. Greg says he hears a difference on his system, so I have to take that as fact. If others don't, well, that's OK too. Personally I agree that for most titles, SACD and DVD-A releases sound superior on my middleweight system, verified for me by my personal blindfold comparisons on the same player. The difference for me lies manly in the increased dynamic range - resonant, realistic bass and shimmering highs that CD, even 24 bit/96kHz remasterings, just can't touch. Also a more realistic soundstage and separation among instruments. That's all the proof I need that the emperor has clothes. One can enjoy both old and new formats for what they offer - greater volume of releases in the standard CD format, including obscurities, and high-end remastering of more popular favorites (at least for now) one can "upgrade" to (or buy for first time in cases where I've held off on certain titles). Whether SACD or DVD-A or some other new format will "replace" CD is kind of a moot point by my reckoning - first off, there seems to be a market for this higher end format to sustain a stream of releases, and all that I think remains to be seen is what the market share will balance out to be. Even if these formats "overtake" CD, which I doubt, so what - I can live with having 1600+ standard CDs even if they are not all in the "best possible sound" because I find I enjoy hearing as many titles as possible rather than saving up $ to listen to just a few SACDs or DVD-As. I won't feel compelled to "upgrade" them all, that's for darn sure. Others will disagree. But this pointless debate about formats is just odd. Room for both.

Thanks for the info on the Ocium release. I'm funny about stuff like this, I'll probably wait (altho maybe for years or in vain) for Verve, Discovery, and/or others to get around to reissuing this stuff properly. European copyright laws regardless, it just bugs me that this stuff can be reissued and his family/estate get nothing. I don't want to contribute to that kind of practice. I know Auld from sideman slots and own the vinyl of his album for Emarcy IN THE LAND OF HI FI, which is good dance music if not the greatest in terms of Auld as a soloist. I'm hoping to hear a lot more of his work over time, great player. An Auld Mosaic would be MOST welcome.

No way I could do this - I would probably just grab whatever was closest to the tip of my tongue that day.

Happy Birthday Lon! It's been a real pleasure conversing with and learning from you since "way back" in the days of the old BN BB. Hope we can do so for many more years! Spin your favorite sides and get in some relaxation time, you deserve it!

Happy Birthday Pops! The greatest.

Pickin' up some steam again - keep the ideas comin', I'm taking 'em in and will firm things up at end of week. Thanks!

Thanks Scott! I knew I could count on you to help me spend more money!

Very eloquently put!

Thanks for the mini-review, Vibes! I'd love to hear others' thoughts, too...the wallet is creaking open...

Mal Waldron - SEAGULLS OF KRISTIANSUND (Soul Note) w/Woody Shaw, Charlie Rouse, Ed Blackwell, Reggie Workman Woody Shaw - NIGHT MUSIC (Elektra) Quincy Jones - MUSIC OF QUINCY JONES FEATURING BENNY BAILEY et al (Argo) Big John Patton - THAT CERTAIN FEELING (BN)

While there was the whole neo-bop thing Soul Stream mentions in the 80's, I have to say that to call the decade "the lame one" is to succumb to the same type of stereotyping that long plagued jazz in the 70's. Perhaps the number of interesting performers was a bit lower, but there was still some amazing stuff - Woody Shaw continued to crank out stellar music, Pullen/Adams (the much requested stuff on BN included) reigned, Lovano and Harrell came to prominence, Phil Woods had some of his best touring groups, Bobby Watson was on fire, etc, etc. It's not that I can't agree to disagree with someone on the merits of particular recordings, but I just hate to see whole decades dismissed casually.

Well Brad, my point was that it doesn't appear that anyone so far knows for sure if all the material in this box IS in the public domain - since I can't seem to find anything, after posting here and scouring the Web, that details exactly what recordings are included. If it's ALL PD stuff, then of course it would be fine by me, but if there are other recordings in there, I think it stinks and would avoid it like the plague. Until we know for sure, it's all idle speculation. I'm not into buying stuff that I view as "gray market," such as much (most?) of the Definitive/Fresh Sound output. I don't care what European law says, it rubs me the wrong way to think that the artists are not getting any kind of compensation for having their work reissued on the cheap by some outfit in Spain or Germany or Timbuktu. Call me crazy.

This is great news, truly great music!

Scott: don't want to derail your thread right at the start, but would you be willing to pause and give me your opinion about the music in the box? I have basically none of it, although I've heard some. I would imagine it's pretty wonderful overall, but kinda costly. Help me pry my wallet open by giving me some tantalizing comments, if you feel like it!

Guess I'm just cynical, but offering money cheapens the deal for me. Smacks of a publicity ploy (and on that end, it's working). As far as improving racial relations within a community, it's simply not going to be effective. The people who go are going to be people who are already "converts" or close to it - people who are already committed to eliminating the racial divide. As AfricaBrass appropriately points out, those people don't NEED money. A simple invitation would have done. By contrast, the folks that really need to be reached aren't going to go, whether you give them $5 or $500. You can't "change" people until they are ready to change themselves.

Count Basie - CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD (Roulette) Joe Henderson - LUSH LIFE (Verve) Duke Ellington - RCA CENTENNIAL BOX (RCA), discs 4 and 8 Benny Goodman - CARNEGIE HALL CONCERT (Columbia/Legacy)

Isn't Nock originally from New Zealand? It seems he's moved around a lot - playing, for example, with Lateef during his tenure at Impulse! I wouldn't have automatically identified him with SF, but then again I think he also recorded with John Handy...speaking of which, DON'T overlook Handy's classic recordings for Columbia (and a little before that, Roulette) in exploring the history of jazz in the SF Bay Area.

The intention seems earnest and good here, but honestly this just sounds plain silly, another great example of why people from other parts of the world look at the U.S. these days and just shake their heads. Any white person who goes to a "black" (whatever that means) church because they're being paid (rather than just because they're interested) is probably not committed enough to de-polarizing race relations to make the effort anything more than...well, a light news piece.

That's the box I saw, yes. It didn't look legit to me, either.

I won't talk about a single solo, but for me the king of the short solo was Harry "Sweets" Edison.

I posted a more detailed reply in a Joe Henderson thread recently, but the WILDFLOWERS COMPLETE NY LOFT SESSIONS 3 CD box on Knit Classics, from I believe 1976, captures the richness of experimentation of that era - sadly mostly undocumented, particularly by the major labels - in stunning form. Now for some personal 70's faves that should be reissued hastily: Joanne Brackeen - ANCIENT DYNASTY (Tappan Zee): Eddie Gomez, Joe Henderson, Steve Gadd - WAY overdue for reissue (Koch, listening?) Arthur Blythe's Columbia records, especially LENOX AVENUE BREAKDOWN, ILLUSIONS, and IN THE TRADITION (the last hasn't been out on CD) Woody Shaw - STEPPING STONES Bill Watrous - MANHATTAN WILDLIFE REFUGE and TIGER OF SAN PEDRO Hmm...lots of Columbia stuff here, maybe they need to GET A CLUE! The Akiyoshi/Tabackin big band RCA stuff is prime material also - need a comprehensive reissue (box!) with any unissued stuff!!! There are many, many more. A very unjustly overlooked decade for jazz, ripe for a revisit.