Niko

a completelt different esthetics I'd say

This version of p.6 should work better https://web.archive.org/web/20111105061531/http://www.sonnysimmons.org/disco6.htm it's a pity the webpage is gone, it was a good one, here are some more linksto subpages: Articles about Barbara Donald, Bert Wilson and Prince Lasha https://web.archive.org/web/20081228191238/http://www.sonnysimmons.org/donald.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20081228190749/http://www.sonnysimmons.org/wilson.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20081228191255/http://www.sonnysimmons.org/lasha.htm Simmons bio: https://web.archive.org/web/20081228123524/http://www.sonnysimmons.org/bio.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20090101053605/http://www.sonnysimmons.org/bio2.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20090101053611/http://www.sonnysimmons.org/bio3.htm main page: https://web.archive.org/web/20081228120419/http://www.sonnysimmons.org/index.html

I read somewhere these days that Heino modelled his way of singing the R after Freddy Quinn...

and now, a blink of an eye later, he's a 64 year old who's being accused because of an abusive sexual relationship with someone who is over 35 years younger... (and in between he made some pretty good music)

taken by itself, it's just a feature of some Southern dialects (including Austrian ones)... you can sing those Rs and still sound like Leonard Cohen rather than Hitler or Heino

without being an expert on the topic, I'd agree with that - at least, they embrace the sexual dimension of things like walking through fire wearing nothing but a leather coat to an extent that you cannot reduce it to nazi esthetics any more... even though that dimension is certainly in there, too... They played together with Heino after he covered their song at a time when other bands were offended... but I would just read that as an act of provocation without active support of his political views. They like to provoke... In Heino's case, I am not so sure I would place the rolled R's in that right wing tradition... it could also, e.g., be a reference to operatic singing or some forgotten dialect... what I find pretty clear is that something like that cover with the uniformed girl scouts on an album where he sings folk songs that used to be sung by Hitler Youth must have brought back memories of those days in his fans... happy memories, probably, kids enjoy sitting around a bonfire and singing songs... and of course, most of those songs are fairly harmless if you look at the lyrics and forget where they come from... they are kid songs... but still... Campino in that article cited up there says something like "Heino has been the face of Germany's ugly side for over 30 years"... guess that fits pretty well

I guess Germany between 1945 and 1968 was very much about working hard, getting the economy back together, not thinking too hard about what had just happened and listening to music like Heino's. (Just like 1968 in Germany was very much about starting a conversation about what had happened in those years...) There is very little German music from those years that I enjoy listening to, besides some classical, jazz and maybe instrumental pop... Afterwards, starting with Can or so, I have many softspots for local pop music, even some carnival stuff... but before the late sixties... I do have a somewhat positive view of Udo Jürgens I guess... Now regarding Heino and politics, there are some things I have wondered about for a long time... For instance, that recent scandal when he quoted Hitler by saying that despite his own advanced age he was still "hard as steel and quick as a greyhound" healthwise... which is a somewhat bizarre statement to make even if you ignore the origin of the phrase... Did he really want to quote Hitler? Or is this just the way someone talks who's spent decades hanging out with people who never stopped to say things like this. My general impression is that early in his career, he was a mainstream artist with a mainstream audience... And then, starting with the advent of the Beatles, he only retained a somewhat older, more conservative part of that audience, which drifted further to the political right as they all got older... To the point, that by about 1980 Heino apparently did think that all three verses of the national anthem might be taught in school again or that it was normal to sing the Schlesierlied about how some day we'd all meet again in our village in what is now Southern Poland... My feeling is that, depressing as it is, those views were acceptable in the most right wing 5% of the German political mainstream around 1980... What is also clear is that at least from the time of those South African tours on, listening to Heino was considered not only as bad taste but also as politically not acceptable by a fairly broad majority.... And the fanbase he still had after those events was far from balanced politically...

That Msc thesis has again more info...

this is the guy he sued (a friend of a popular punk band)... kind of understandably I guess... the other guy called himself "Der wahre Heino" (The true Heino), and e.g. published press releases claiming that after the most recent South African tour Heino had quit his major label deal to start his own label "White Terror"... this picture is the backcover of one of the other guy's records, collecting clippings from the court proceedings, the typewritten text says something to the effect of "By a court order we are not allowed to mention the name of the artist on this record. We wish to explicitly point out that the record is not by Heinz-Georg Kramm [Heino's real name]." some pictures around that incident

I thought his "rock" episode was reasonably successful - the music doesn't hurt anyone and the costumes, well... they do teach you that the golden age of rock music is over.... wikipedia says Heino is now performing classical music... hmm that said, it's nice that you have those fond memories of when you were young - but Heino is not "cool" and never was... the music is what it is ... plus: the music would have to be pretty amazing to compensate for things like regular tours through Apartheid South Africa in the 80s...

It's not my favorite Belgian beer but I do like it as well... I'd say it strikes a nice balance somewhere between the real heavy spicy beers (like a Westmalle tripel or Tripel Karmeliet), some lighter, less interesting blonde beers (like a Leffe Blonde) and then those really weird but fascinating beers that give you a headache that's completely out of proportion to the abv (like a Duvel or Orval, never have more than one of those on the same night...). The thing is that one could think that a small bottle of La Chouffe or Duvel (0.3*8.5%) has about the same effect as a big bottle of regular lager or pils (0.5*5%)... but the difference between having three Orval or Duvel vs having three large pils is something even inexperienced drinkers will notice (due to added sugars or whatever else it is that the monks are doing, those beers taste great though)... La Chouffe is something of a compromise I'd say, tastes almost as good, but there is a bit less variation from bottle to bottle, and a considerably smaller headache factor...

my Italian is pretty non-existent but indeed this looks like a live broadcasting of a trio (France, Price and drummer Candy McDonald) from some location in Milan which is specificed quite precisely... in the upper left corner it say "Saturday May 10" which also means it's from 1980

Re the Downbeat Archive: the freely accessible part currently stops at the end of 1961... No idea what the status of the remaining issues is... With that in mind 2 hits for Larry Young may we'll be correct

thanks, that's exactly what I thought - both of those clubs have elevated stages while this one apparently doesn't... I agree that this picture could have been taken anywhere... the bit of extra information (found e.g. in the other Green thread that's currently active) is that George Heid, who is from Pittsburgh, claimed that this picture was taken in Pittsburgh....

I've also been wondering what a good format for writing up my findings might be, and was similarly drawn to Michael Fitzgerald's Art Blakey chronology or a similar format... my focus has been more on understanding biographies than on covering artists that have many fans... but I know quite a bit by now about drummer Chuck Thompson, alto player Kirtland Bradford (Lunceford's lead alto after Willie Smith) and their family backgrounds etc. and should really wrap up these projects if I have the time (If anybody knows anything about Chuck Thompson between the summer of 1960 and his death in 1982, I'd be very very interested btw). So I'd definitely be interested in something like you describe....

Contracts... would be interesting to know how these were designed... and, e.g., whether artists actually had incentives to support sales of their BN albums or whether they played their hit tunes simply because that's what the audience wanted... I've also been wondering whether the ideas of playing Go Down Moses and displaying Feelin the Spirit at that gig were some type of running gag about JC Moses last name...

The Kenny Burrell Quartet ‎– The Tender Gender Grant Green is almost everything but not everything plus: thrift stores have reopened... found this one earlier today, a quartet with Richard Wynands on piano, and had it on repeat ever since

well, George Heid seems to claim that the picture with JC Moses was taken at a gig in Pittsburgh... so if the 28 June gig is the Iron City gig and it involves Dixon then we need an additional Pittsburgh gig with Moses & Young for the picture in the same time span, maybe somewhat earlier... could also be that Dixon did a few days and then Moses took over or the other way around... we know that the Watson/Clark/Green band was advertised in Indianapolis on December 4 and February 6. On February 20, the same place advertised the Getz/Green/Moses band... there are different stories which fit this pattern... but most of them would involve Watson/Clark/Green still showing up on December 4 and Getz/Green/Moses existing at some point before February 20 ... and then Young returning from Paris, recording Majesty King Funk with Dixon and Green in May... in November the band is announced as Green/Patton/Dixon...

DMP, do you recognize the club in the photo?

like Dan said above, these search functions are pretty good but not perfect... in this case, it took a search for the phrase "happy house"in 1965 Pennsylvania newspapers to find the (or a) missing Green Gig at the Hurricane Bar in mid 1965... this here is from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette of 28 June 1965 no line up given, four weeks after the recording of Majesty King Funk, four months after the Getz/Green/Moses gig, four months before the first documentation of a Green/Patton band, six weeks before those rejected Verve sessions... if the photograph is from here, this would suggest that JC Moses stayed in the touring band and just did not play on the album... why not...and we don't know about the organ player but we do know that Green had troubles finding one earlier that year and that he had just recorded with Larry Young... for the moment, I claim that the both recording of Iron City and the photo belong to this gig, which would make the band Green/Young/Moses

Getz memories could very interesting... even just knowing how many months it was... of course, if there was like a constant back and forth, then it's very hard to read anything into lineup changes... but if we believe in some continuity then it seems clear the Young/Green/Moses lineup must be after Getz/Green/Moses of 20 February 1965 (when did LY return from Europe?). So far I have two Green gigs at the Hurricane Bar Grant Green (Guitarist on the Prestige Label, 18 January 1965) Grant Green Organ Trio featuring John Patton, Ben Dixon (15 November 1965) one is too early, the other too late because Patton and Dixon are already announced... which would suggest that there was some additional Green Gig in Pittsburgh, before DIxon replaced JC Moses on drums, but after Larry Young replaced Jane Getz at the keyboard... some time between February and Novermber. If we read the band on King Funk (26 May, Green Young Dixon) as a working band, then the photograph would have been made between 20 February and 26 May 1965. A Green Young Moses version of Iron City would also have been recorded in that time frame... a Green Young Dixon version could be recorded between 26 May and some point before mid November... if we believe in continuity...

speaking of cool free resources, this here is a free newspaper archive for Indiana, including the Indianapolis recorder... the same lineup with Watson and Clarke is advertised there once more on February 6 1965... but on February 20 1965, the lineup has changed, JC Moses has joined the band and (somewhat surprisingly) Jane Getz is playing the piano in the Grant Green Trio... here is one more 31 December 1966, almost two years later... what this suggests to me is that there was a period of JC Moses / Green / Young either before ore (more likely given Young's travel to Europe) after the lineup JC Moses / Green / Getz...

I can see that story, too... at some point Green/Patton/Dixon were Lou Donaldson's rhythm section, but that was a bit earlier... and then from some point in 1965 onwards until some point in 1968 there was a relatively stable Patton/Green band, initially also with Dixon... but it doesn't look like this was a case of a rhythm section leaving their leader continuing as a trio... there probably was a less stable phase in between... we know less about Green's working bands before late 1965 when a Patton-Green band is first mentioned... the Indianapolis Star of 4 December 1964 advertises a Green Organ Trio with a completely different lineup (Jimmy Watson, org, Buck Jones, dr)

I get rid of the yellow highlighter by just clicking cancel in the search window after I've found what I want and the yellow disappears... and then I can use their print/save button (or alternatively the PC's) and get nice clippings without yellow... alternatively, I guess you can use their tool, too, but I never tried to save those clippings... Re the membership, I have noticed for myself that I get a lot of fun out of reading those old newspapers - easily worth those 12$ per month... Of course, there are also nice free tools like familysearch.org, some free newspaperarchives like https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/ or the archive of Downbeat until 1961 (and archive.org in general) https://archive.org/details/pub_down-beat (click on "search text contents" before searching...don't know if the functionality is the same everywhere in the world)

been thinking about that photo as well... apparently it was originally posted by George Heid on flickr link, he writes "Grant Green, J.C. Moses, Larry Young, taken 17 June 1966. All three were ascended masters of the music, playing in Pittsburgh in the 1960's. On the right, Larry Young was, without a doubt, the most advanced artist of the Hammond B-3... and with the greatest jazz guitarist of all time, Grant Green. On Drums is J.C. Moses. There aren't words to describe the music that was going on in this club that evening." now that places the picture - and thus a Grant Green live band including Larry Young on organ in Pittsburgh at about the right time... Heid is from Pittsburgh so he should recognize the club - a pity he didn't name it... Elsewhere in his account he ahs other bands from both the Crawford Grill and the Hurricane Bar - and they look quite different... Mid June 1966 is possible but not super plausible given that the Green band was also in Pittsburgh in the first half of July for an extended stay... so I would take that date with a grain of salt... what this picture does seem to prove is that Green played with both Young and Patton in Pittsburgh in 1964-67