robertoart

Is this the Five spot circa '66 ?

Not so crazy, that's another theory I'm sure others have thought as well. The original Cobblestone vinyl does have a 50/50 stereo split, the organ across the whole album can be isolated to a virtual organ-drum audio or vice-versa a guitar-drum one. The title track reminds me of the Let Em Roll title track form wise. We need some modern organ masters to do a deep dive into the voicings and harmony on each track lol. Always wondered about the master tapes to this session? Do they hold any clues? The mystery of this session is impenetrable by the looks of it.

Is the organ so many shades of homogenous that a lifetime of serious listeners can't categorically distinguish an albums worth of material between John Patton and Larry Young lol.

Indeed, the way this story has been framed by Travis Klein, from the info he has disclosed, is not very respectful to say the least. Also, it seems the timeframe coincides with the presumed end of Grant's first contract (or working relationship) with Blue Note and his commencement of a short lived series of recordings for Verve. Who knows what Grant's status was at the point of the recording. Then also, Klein states it was supposedly Gene Ludwig's manager who first approached him to do an opportunistic session? I also remember raising the idea of the recording being part of the lost Verve sessions, however it was pointed out that the recording is clearly not a 'Van Gelder' studio production, so most likely Travis Klein's version of the story is based in some fact. However, the recently released Oil Can Harry's recording liners suggest Grant was in a similar situation in the mid 70's, coming out of contract with Blue Note and Cuscuna saying the Oil Can Harry's recordings were being used at the time as a demonstration record so to speak, to secure another contract (according to Cuscuna). Who's to say the Iron City session wasn't for some such similar end? Probably wasn't, but just throwing around some possible scenarios to take away from the distastefully stereotypical Klein story of the session, that has been un-tactfully thrown out into the margins of the public domain. Also interesting, that one of the 'back in the day' adverts shown upthread, refers to Grant as 'Prestige' recording artist? Perhaps Grant was headed for Prestige, or had a hand shake agreement in place, which then became Verve all of a sudden.

Yes, Peter Leitch mentions in the liner notes to the King Funk cd reissue seeing the Green, Patton, Jarvis trio in Canada, but he gets the time frame mixed up I think, I seem to recall he puts it around late Sixties. Getz mentions her experience of those gigs in a memoir, I haven't returned to it since originally reading it, unsure if any timeframe is defined though.

Yes it may have been a bit earlier, but Lou says he never took Grant Green on the road with him, whereas he says he did travel with John Patton. Could the Iron City organist be a mysterious 'third person' lol. Another primary source of memory around this 65/66 era was Larry Coryell who also came to New York around this time and talks of memories of seeing Grant Green and Larry Young gigs. Although like Lonnie Smith's recollections these are in the New York area. Coryell mentions hearing live versions of I Want To Hold Your Hand with this trio.

Nothing definitive to add, but some historical context from Lonnie Smith interview recollections that I think are firmly rooted in this 65ish time era, Lonnie Smith talks about Grant Green wanting Lonnie Smith to be his Organ player at the time the Benson/Smith band was getting together. Jimmy Boyd was managing them as well as managing Grant Green. Lonnie Smith recalls Jimmy Boyd putting his foot down and telling Grant Green that he already has his trio with Larry Young and to keep Benson and Smith playing together. Lonnie Smith has told this story re-Jimmy Boyd in a few interviews and always mentions Larry Young as Grant's trio organist around this time. https://www.chicagojazz.com/post/dr-lonnie-smith-feature-interview Also in the wonderful, long form interview with Lou Donaldson by Ted Panken, Lou Donaldson mentions that he took John Patton on the road with him. Not sure if this would have been in the 65 period or maybe a bit earlier in 63/64, but it would account for John Patton having other commitments with Lou Donaldson's band at some point. On the Argo/Cadet Donaldson albums from 64/65, Patton is on Possum Head but Billy Gardner on the other ones.

Was the drummer from this photo from 1966 WBGH Boston TV session ever identified. Ben Dixon, Candy Finch? His Majesty King Funk with Larry Young was recorded on May 26th 1965. The version of Willow Weep For Me on the King Funk album sounds very much like the performances on the Cobblestone album to me, a little more stretching out on the tune perhaps than some of the Iron City tracks, but very much that darker, heavy vibe. The photo of Grant and Larry Young playing a club with the Feelin The Spirit album in the shot certainly looks like it could be from 65 or 66. https://www.flickr.com/photos/61578214@N00/169312879 It's hard to argue with Bill Heid and Ed Cherry though. Especially as Ed Cherry played and recorded with John Patton. I have also read Lonnie Smith refer to Grant's working trio circa this time as including Larry Young and Candy Finch. He also says he made a no show to two booked Grant Green sessions where he was expected to play. The unissued Verve album in jazzdiscog claims two sessions from Aug and Sep 65 have at least three tunes recorded for the Iron City session. One tune supposedly titled Iron City March? Which seems odd if Travis Klein takes credit for the title on the Cobblestone album. Although if the Iron City session was recorded before the unissued Verve session then maybe Grant held on to the title for the same or similar tune recorded later in the year for Verve?

Here's what Benson is talking about... "I said, “You mean Bird?” He said, “That’s it!” “Charlie ‘Yardbird’ Parker.” “Yeah, that’s the name. Yardbird. They said he was going to destroy jazz.” On the way back to the hotel, I thought about what the man said, what the man felt, what the man believed, and you know what? He was right. Charlie Parker improvised in a sophisticated manner that wasn’t appreciated by every jazz ear at the time. He broke the mold, but he broke it in a way that enabled those who study his work to put it together in a new, beautiful manner, with a whole new identity, an identity that brought us to where we are now. And I think we’re in a pretty good place". I've read the book. I don't read any overblown egotism, the only thing I would raise eyebrows to is his rationalisations about playing South Africa. Otherwise you get a quite expansive and candid insight into the Organ/Guitar era, especially to the days before his Warner Bros era of mainstream success.

This is interesting. A review of the Trumpet - Guitar workshop from the Newport Daily News 5th July 1966. They say Grant Green started the workshop at 1.00pm with '15 minutes of the Blues'... 'a single string interpretation of Cantaloupe Woman'. Interestingly they identify the drummer as 'Newporter Mike De-Luce'. https://www.newspapers.com/clip/468940/1966-newport-jazz-fest-trumpet-workshop/

Bertrand the GG Cantaloupe Woman is as HGWeber says from Newport 66 Guitar and Trumpet Workshop. Grant, Kenny Burrell and George Benson all did sets, not just one song. There was a review of the workshop in Downbeat which confirms Grant Green, Kenny Burrell and George Benson all did several songs each. Interestingly it appears Wes Montgomery was originally scheduled to be part of this workshop. I assume the whole thing was filmed as there is a full video available on Youtube. The available surviving film has been edited down for TV. But the edited film which was shown and is available on youtube only included one George Benson selection 'Benson's Rider'. No Grant or Kenny beyond Kenny Burrell's presence in the band backing up the Trumpet part of the Workshop. Charlie Byrd also took part in the Guitar workshop and makes up the significant part of the TV edit that was broadcast. I don't know if any of the film or recordings that were made and weren't aired publicly back in the day have survived. The first time I heard these tracks was on an Italian Jazz Guitar box set from the early 80's that included the Grant track LRC keeps in circulation, The Kenny Burrell one referred to upthread and a George Benson version of Ready And Able that doesn't seem to be in circulation anymore but was on the Italian jazz Guitar Vinyl Box.

For me, nothing in music compares to The Quartet. Pure love and spirit in sound. This is a sad moment, but the music will remain eternal.

This interview with the guitarist Mark Elf talks about this album in some detail. https://beta.prx.org/stories/266729

If it's from '74 this info may be relevant? There is an interview in January '75 edition of Guitar Player magazine (so actual interview possibly occurred late 74 perhaps)?. Grant's band is identified in that article as Desmond Norman vibes, Emmanuel Riggins keys, Ronnie Ware bass, Richard Frierson drums, Rahsool congas. Some commonality from the band recorded at Oil Can Harry's in Sept 75. There is also a live version of Skin Tight dated as from Pittsburgh '74 on youtube, sounds a lot like the medley arrangements on Oil Can Harry's with the Milestones groove. Grant Green's son has also documented in interview a pro shot film short, possibly same era, but just guessing.

Simply one of my favourite musicians of all time. RIP.

This newspaper is from my town. The media today full of the usual apologists defending the cartoonist and the newspaper. Recently a champion sportsmen over here called out racist remarks directed at him from someone in the crowd. he was booed and jeered for the remainder of his career into retirement. Supposedly that wasn't racist either, just 'the crowd' reacting to him staging for free kicks. Yeah right.

I was right, it was Thornel Schwartz Interestingly, I remember reading an old interview with George Benson who said back in the day the most illustrious guitar player was always the one who held down the guitar chair in Jimmy Smith's band. Hence Thornel Schwartz had a lot of currency among up and coming guitar players back then.

Thanks for the link to the article. Meyers is the first critique I've read that captures why the Antibes performances are my favourite from both these Resonance releases; "Listening to this Resonance release, the jazz-funk tracks sound so much freer and alive for Green, who clearly was tiring of the kind of straight-up that dominates the Paris studio recordings. Listening to him peck away on the Antibes material, particularly Hi-Heel Sneakers and the longer version of Upshot. They are a revelation".

I guess it's all about marketing. Funk In France, Slick. Resonance did the same with the Wes titles pretty much, 'Smoking In Seattle' 'Echoes Of Indiana Ave'.

Yeah I think he's getting Wes Montgomery and Grant Green mixed up. Cannonball Adderley bought Wes Montgomery to the attention of Orrin Keepnews I believe. It was Lou Donaldson who got Grant to Blue Note. I'm personally glad these releases are out there. CJ's right about the drumming marring the overall standard of the band performances on Paris and Antibes. And to be fair, we don't know whether the drummer Billy Wilson was coming in cold for these gigs. Add that to the fact Clarence Palmer didn't have a B3 at his disposal, and the musicians are compromised right there. However I wouldn't want to be without either of these performances, they are precious documents. Slick I feel does add a lot of context to Grant's recorded legacy. From the liner notes, it seems the Oil Can Harry gig was given to Michael Cuscuna back in the day to try and obtain Grant a new recording contract, or thats what seems to be implied? I'm not sure what better Grant Green material Cuscana might be sitting on? Maybe the unissued Verve sessions or the Green Acid session. Although everything I've read here and elsewhere says the tapes haven't survived? Bob Porter also says in his book that the CTI Allstar concerts Grant was featured in (shortly after the Slick recordings?), were most likely not recorded - although that seems a bit odd to me as CTI seemed to do so much live recording of their roster?

Great review CJ really enjoyed reading that!!!!

Obviously CJ the presense of Don Lamond as a drummer for Grant Green is a weak link. Especially considering there was probably no rehersal involved for any 'adaptation' to occur. I doubt Lamond thought he was gonna be hit with a James Brown song to kick off the gig? The first time I heard the set, the Lamond mismatch was the thing that was like a small stone stuck inside your comfy runners. Antibes? Well yeah Candy Finch, Hugh Walker, Joe Dukes or JC Moses or any Organ Trio legend would have been great. So I think everyone who had heard the music on Funk In France beforehand knew there were flaws inherent in the performances. The guitar playing itself on the Antibes tracks are some of my favourite Grant Green. It's the kind of playing and repertoire/instrumentation that reflects to me what a 1969 Grant Green Prestige session might have sounded like (with a proper B3 and a more seasoned drummer). I think you are right to say that these sets are not going to change too many peoples knowledge or perceptions of Grant Green for the better. But they certainly add wonderful content to what some of us already know and love. yes, I'd like to look for it on the back cover of the next Resonance Records Grant Green release.= 'Live At The Left Bank with John Patton, Harold Vick and Hugh Walker :