robertoart

Wrong forum?

You will never see unreleased stuff released by a boutique label before you would see it on Blue Note itself. Given that Blue Note is out of the reissue business, it's time to officially give up hope. i was wondering though, how far this label (Music Matters) are prepared to go re- unreleased stuff. Seen as they are prepared to make their own albums now. Perhaps if the numbers add up and they see a potential release, they might lobby for it? Read my previous post. It will NEVER happen. Time to stop being a "fanboy" and start being realistic. Do you really think a label of origin would allow a licensing label to steal its thunder??????????? Actually. if they think there is more money to be made by franchising the catalogue out, including anything unreleased they probably would, in this day and age. I mean, so much of the Mosaic sets were out a good few years before the previous/latest incarnation of Blue Note prepared their own more user friendly versions. I guess the big point at this stage of the history, is really about whether any more so called 'rejected' sessions or tracks will see the light of day, as the changing of the 'gatekeeper' guard takes place in the future. Will they be made available to 'interested parties' to hear via electronic media, as has been suggested on this board in the past? Probably not.

You will never see unreleased stuff released by a boutique label before you would see it on Blue Note itself. Given that Blue Note is out of the reissue business, it's time to officially give up hope. i was wondering though, how far this label (Music Matters) are prepared to go re- unreleased stuff. Seen as they are prepared to make their own albums now. Perhaps if the numbers add up and they see a potential release, they might lobby for it?

So was it a random thing that some masters were kept and not others. And how come we seem to have fairly comprehensive session information for a live date like Mintons. Was this info recorded at the time of the gig, and then the album(s) compiled for release and the session tapes discarded? On the other hand, when Blue Note released Grant Green's Alive session, the unissued tracks were available, so I guess what's there is on a case by case basis.

Re-the nuisance that was transcribing or playing along with KOB at up a half step... Couldn't all you Saxophone players just wiggle your mouthpieces a bit and be in Aflat

Shuggie was in Australia last week for our biggest Blues Festival. He played locally at a 'concert hall' event with Taj Mahal and Robert Cray. Unfortunately I missed the show. Too expensive when I really only would have wanted to see Shuggie. If he played a pub venue I would have made it. Here is a short precis of one performance, taken from here https://rhythms.com.au/news/byron-bluesfest-opens-with-a-blast/ At 5.30pm came the first of many difficult choices; Trombone Shorty & New Orleans, Shuggie Otis, Wanda Jackson and Go Jane Go (the new outfit for Kieran Kane, David Francey & Lucas Kane) all kicked off sets at the same time (along with local favourites The Beards who drew a strong crowd to the Cavanbah). Bluesfest 2013 Thursday – Trombone Short I went for Shuggie and stuck it out through the slow start. Otis and his band were not what you would call slick and took a while to get cooking, but when they did, they hit some amazing highs. As they built in confidence, Shuggie really began to shine, playing some inspired blues solos that were somewhere between Clapton and Hendrix. The band tried out a new song, ‘Wings Of Love’, the title track to their new album, and it was a powerful, glistening piece of smooth psyche-soul. Robert Cray demonstrated his distinctive touch on the guitar and Jake Shimabukuro did things seemingly impossible to the ukulele as the Easter moon rose full and white over the teeming festival site. Also an interview from Shuggie promoting his tour and talking about some his history http://thedwarf.com.au/interview/13908/introducing-shuggie-otisagain

I didn't the gist of your post jsngry when I first read it... 'the drama of what the music is 'representing' as opposed to 'the maths of the changes'? Yes? ...well there is a kind of a 'Humanities-Maths' of 'the sound/expressive possibilities inherent in the horn that can 'represent' like no other. To me anyway. The best Shepp is gutwrenching and 'beautiful' like that.

It mostly always comes through to me as raw beauty, especially the so called 'later' stuff people seem to have reservations about. Then again, I don't listen to it backed up 'on mass' so to speak, so maybe served up all at once might make people dismiss it as 'melodramatic'. But it always sounds beautifully sincere to me. A smile and a tear in every phrase.

I remember playing Round Midnight off The Down Home New York album to a Blues loving alto player many years ago. He was taken aback and turned to me and said 'wow......he plays a natural note......just for effect' The great Archie Shepp! Sheep Sheap Sheet Schep Shep

It'll be Ashes time again in England soon Gentleman. And then on for the second part of the double to Australia under the hot bright sun. Goodie Goodie Yum Yum! Just like cricket in the old days before England started 'winning' again.

Kind Of Blue (only the stereo I think)? was infamous for being a half step sped up for years until someone in the cd era decided it should be converted to concert pitch.

My favourite Welshman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zErKwk95Mc

Two quintet dates - 'Oh baby' and 'Steppin' out' - with Vick, Mitchell, Patton & Dixon spring to mind immediately MG How could I forget them. I've got the Vangelder ear Oh Baby too. Steppin Out was one of the last sessions in Grant's discography I got to hear. Don't think I'll be finding an original vangelder of that anytime soon. The Soul Brotherhood is one of my all time favourites as well.

Well, I dont think that these audiophile LP releases are at all suitable for soul jazz. Hell, the music was always for parties and dancing! No audiophile company is going to want people spilling beer over their product, or bouncing up and down near the turntable, causing the stylus to bounce sympathetically, then complaining it doesn't play properly. Good job too MG and who wants to stop dancing or chatting to that pretty woman to change the side after only one track? That could ruin your prospects for the night right there. Then again maybe you could have a designated 'side changer' at every party...kinda like a designated driver when a group of people go out for a few drinks. ...yeh, but wouldn't you like to hear the Grant Green/Gene Harris trio session. Or the Grant Green/Kenny Dorham session? Or the significant amount of out-takes from Stanley Turrentine's Mintons session. Actually that's one the audiophile label might like to stick their teeth into, Up at Minton's volume 3 and 4.

Fats Theus - Black Out ....coming soon to an Audiophile Label near you

I wish he made a quartet or small group Organ record with Blue Mitchell. Also has there ever been much contemporary research into things like which Blue Note session configurations may have played some club dates, or was it specifically most of the great session personnel (apart from the famous working bands like The Messengers, Horace Silver etc), really came together and got to know each other during the few days of 'paid' rehearsal time Blue Note sprang for. For instance, did Joe Henderson ever play gigs with Tyner and Jones maybe? Grant with McCoy?

If you really understand how Grant's lines and overall musical opus fit so perfectly into a modal harmonic world, the sessions with Tyner and Larry Young seem like a logical fit between were the music (Jazz) was going and was already - and the development of Grant Green as a guitar player. Idle Moments probably made that a certainty. Remember the Elvin Jones connection went back a few years, so obviously the two men kept in touch And also, the Mosaic Larry Young booklet points out Green, Young and Jones were a working band when they could get together. Grant's development between the Barbarian recordings and Idle Moment/Matador/Talkin About JC is pretty phenomenal by any musicians standards. Seems like he made definitive post-bop statements with Sonny Clark, and then made equally definite modal recordings within two years later. He must have done a lot of thinking about his music during those times

I don't think the quality of mastering is in question. Of either of the two labels. At least not by me. As jetman said, the majors that own Blue Note etc al, have obviously lost interest in their archival legacy, and are now putting their money behind Blue Note as their contemporary Boutique Blues and Roots label (mostly). They appear content that enough titles are still in print and accessible in the racks. So these franchised re-mastering labels will probably be the way of the future. I guess it was inevitable they would start to compile their own albums as well. Hopefully they will find some useful projects to do in this regard. Otherwise go back to re-mastering Linda Ronstadt.

You're both right of course MG & CJ. Maybe if they have made some good money out of this label, they might be able to research some releases that actually add to the legacy instead of just re-hashing what is already out there, even if it is not in such a pristine consumable package as Music Matters provide. But more than likely they won't. I just think, perhaps wrongly, that if you are going to get carte blanche licence to re-issue the archives for a certain slice of the market - for your own profit and pleasure - well and good. But if you are going to take some liberties with the historical record, and begin to cut and paste to your own image - of what the past should have been (and also have the gall to name check the decisions of original label owner in your own self serving publicity), then you are moving slightly beyond just being an Audiophile re-issue label (for profit and pleasure). Analogue Productions released Along Came John and then said that would be the last Patton they would release. Music Matters have released the Larry Young/Grant Green collaborations, and Unity. Anything with Grant Green is probably a guaranteed seller for them. They have released most of it. I doubt they would ever master Of Love and Peace though. I think the only challenging Blue Notes they released would be the 'usual' - Out To Lunch. I suppose Unity is considered a 'challenging' session to these guys. Any Moncur, Hill?

Well this is the first time Music Matters have actually 'compiled' their own album. They have intervened into the official story before, by ignoring the first issue Japanese release covers and re-presenting their own version. I guess it raises questions about how people see the 'authenticity' of the history, warts and all. They did this with Grant Green's Matador and Solid plus others I believe. Contemporary Blue Note retained the Japanese Matador cover for its cd, but re-designed Solid, as Solid was first released during the 'obtuse album cover' re-issue series. Music Matters by-passed these covers, and seem to have a position that if a session was first released post 60's, the presentation is 'up for grabs'. This is not to deny the beauty of their product however. What I feel is a shame, is they are definitely making critical choices about what part of the labels legacy they are prepared to represent. So this is not a scholarly re-evaluation like Mosaic, but one driven by the tastes of the label owners. For instance, while we get a nice packaging of this Mobley session, a more considered choice like the John Patton session with George Coleman, which was 'never' heard in the day, and subsequently spread across two Rare Groove re-issues, will never be considered by a label like this - that essentially has both eyes on the 'Rock listening' audiophiles with deep pockets - who like Kind Of Blue. There is an element of boutique vinyl 'mix tape' mentality about the label, who essentially have become the only game in town. So how far are they prepared to go for the music? Will they push to release some of the last few unreleased sessions, or will they over ride their own biases and attempt to present more of the whole story, including some historically important Free-er stuff and some Soul Jazz. I bet when they get down to that stuff, they'll close the bank account and open up negotiations about other archival labels.

Tracy Pew Spiro Agnew Jonathon Agnew

Ahh...the 1980's....I was there.