robertoart

I was surprised to hear Jim Hall sound indecisive and awkward too. Maybe he was 'out to lunch' at the time. It's not like he can't play be-bop any other time.

A fair amount of what Perry plays sounds to me like he's stuck inside a snippet of a solo on "Donna Lee" being played by, say, Argonne Thornton and can't find his way out. Way more to him than that. Listen more, please. Yes, this one below from Perry has something IMO: but every time I've heard him in a "blowing" context FWTW (rather than as here, stating and sounding out an intense but more or less pre-determined structure) he sounds fairly well trapped to me, chewing over very similar figures and never getting much of anywhere. And his comping? I do have a fair amount on Perry on CDs as a sideman. Another taste of Perry: Speaking of getting somewhere, listen to the melodic flow of Ted Brown's solo. I know that crowd well, Ari, Sacha, Zaid Nasser, Alex, Phil Stewart, and for ages---especially Ari and Sacha (William Ash used to be a chief cohort. He plays bass now and does mostly Latin gigs but still plays guitar). They believe in what they are doing (as opposed to being full of themselves). The way they play is the only way that makes sense to them, and they've played their asses off since the early teen years--spurred on by C. Sharpe, Tommy Turrentine, Leroy Williams, Chris Anderson, Barry Harris, Frank Hewitt. All of those elders were proud. The verbal wars? Who cares? Let it ride. I've argued-debated plently with those guys. I've also stood on bandstands often enough with Ari Roland supporting his bowed solos to know what someone in love with bringing an ideal fully out is. Sacha, the same. They live the jazz life, those guys. Heed their musical utterances and you won't go wrong. Heed there musical utterances and you won't go wrong. Well actually.... maybe in a traditional sense yes. But if you are unwilling to deal with anything post - Ornette or even Coltrane FFS into your Jazz world view then a big fat NO. Or are these guys collectively 'for' 'no changes'... if they assess it as 'motivic development' or something? The verbal wars? Who cares? Well the debates within the music are not going to go away, whether they are socio-cultural or Formalist....so maybe better to argue it through with some sense of consistency, especially if you are going to introduce language from other disciplines like Philosophy to help clarify your points. Hoffman uses Phenomenologically descriptive language to argue for an Ontologically based musical process. He sounds like he is just another person trying to accommodate, or 'get around' 'The Blues' into his musical world view. For instance how does he describe the conscious thought processes, when/if, he uses the natural mechanics of his instrument to - honk, wail, skronk or cry? Are they just 'artifices' to maintain (or wake up ) the listeners interest while you gather together your next thought process (ie...damn...tri-tone subs - I always forget to play them ) or are they just musical 'ad hominems' to the 'real' art of Jazz - ie according to Hoffman, voice leading through changes? BTW... the guys you mention, Turrentine, Harris, Williams etc, did they actually cultivate this kind of 'don't play without conscious science' approach in these 'disciples'. Leroy Williams was right at the forefront of 'The Shorter' generation? The level of dialogue in some of this stuff is downright 'comical'. "I don't want to 'physically' harm Wayne Shorter" Sheesh......

There might be something in that.......sadly.

Yes. Hunter is better than that, for sure. However once I dug into a bit of Hunter, I thought the 'Hammond Organ via guitar schtick' was not really anything more than mechanical. What I mean is, his approach basically divides the guitar between lower strings that function as extended bass line facility - while the supposed 'Larry Young' fourths angle - he takes doesn't really develop towards anything beyond the standard 'piano to guitar' compromises that any 'standard' six string tweaker is going to utilise and settle for anyway. So a George Van Eps of grease and quartal harmony he is not. The other thing - is the chorus-y sound that supposedly apes the keyboard. I recently saw a Mike Stern masterclass over here, whereby Stern explained his own 'chorus' sound - as deployed - because he wanted to get away from the primary Guitar sound - and closer to a keyboard flow between the notes. And he believed the soft, wishy washy processed sound did this for him. Sometimes I wish these guys had just taken up keyboards and been done with it. With someone like Metheny, I feel the processed tone is somehow critical to his actual lines and the physical dexterity of the way he plays, but for most others it is somehow diminishing.

So he reads a lot of philosophy. Well he seems to be advocating a music that is all Platonic form and no social or personal ambience - which he seems to equate with vulgarity. According to this guy, Lester and Hawkins were apparently able to reach these lofty heights of transcendence without dirtying the sublime pain or hipster coolness of The Blues. Whereas others with a post-cool response to the world around them, are merely shallow exhibitionists. It's hard to believe he is talking about Shorter and not David Murray or Archie Shepp actually. But this guy probably wouldn't even consider those players on the 'musical' spectrum whatsoever. So maybe his attention to Shorter is a back handed compliment of sorts. Interestingly, I found something of the thing he is trying get across, in of all places, a recent Nicholas Payton Chamber Jazz performance. Which I did kinda like by the way, just not as much as his blog writing and activism. It was like Payton had told his band not to fart in case they stunk up the Platonic air. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F54nR67PZPY

The Little Giant.

That's true to a point. But for the younger generation the digital 'availability' and consumption of their work is second nature. The upside is that creative people have exposure and presence 'in the world' potentially beyond their locality. People still go out and become part of scenes and movements, just not older folks so much. And DJ related music is the other half of the sky these days.

Actually is this session with George Freeman? In the back of my mind I remember seeing discog info about this....

Can you post a link to Pat Metheny in a suit

He was probably making a point about the 'in the tradition' movement that has made such a great contribution to fucking up the music.

I remember the Shipp statements. I took them as a complaint about artistic complacency as much as anything. And provocative for good reason. Anyone bemoaning Wayne Shorter for 'taking a line for a walk' is probably missing out on a lot of creative understanding (and fun). All artistic disciplines achieve some of their best moments when the unconscious takes over.

You forgot Cousin Itt.

Ed Cherry is on both DIW releases and plays superbly. Gee those two DIW Patton's are brilliant. Such a great feeling on those. Could the third one be the Blue Planet session perhaps, which wasn't released on DIW?

Is that a younger Allen Lowe with Macca?

I've heard of a mute. But this is ridiculous.

Kat Onoma The Omaha Kid Wyoming Bill Kelso

Renegades from the Salvation Army.

Alex is a pencil neck geek. I can't get past 21.20minutes. He's starting to freak me out. He seems scared and weird. Like a zombie Woody Allen. Doesn't this guy understand the music is more than 'maths'. Has Barry Harris never gotten over the inside/outside dichotomy? And this guy is taking his disgruntlement as gospel?

Led Zeppelin Zeppo Marx Leppo from The Rutles

Is that root beer?

The original post by Soulstation is almost 5 years old, and I don't know that he's going to post on the board any more. If it's forthcoming, it's had a long gestation! Or is the session "This One's For J.A."? There have also been references to a third unreleased DIW session on this board somewhere. Was there a third DIW session that remained unreleased? Or was this the 'One For JA' session?

Happy Birthday! This will help keep you young http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDfmn_TMkI

I think 'the seven string guitar/hammond one man band sound' works against him in some ways. If you take out the quirkiness of all that, you're left with a fairly generic - but well schooled - mainstream jazzer. Not that there's anything wrong with that. He first came to notice over here for his work with Michael Franti...who I think only White people in Australia listen to anymore

So all hoping that everything health wise will be fine..... but in Australia, the 'Soul Music gatekeepers' are a bit sniffy about Sharon Jones musically. We often get a lot of classic era performers out here like Bettye Lavette. One of our Soul dj's said Bettye Lavette was the artist Sharon Jones 'wished' she was?

Tina Brookes is a good example for authenticity in his own time and place. So not a bad example at all. Criticising past jazz masters (even if they are still alive and playing), for technical shortcomings - or different areas of focus - seems a bit silly from this vantage in time. l mean where does it end.... Pharoah Sanders can't arpeggio run Giant Steps.....Archie Shepp can't play as well as Michael Brecker....James Blood Ulmer can't really play changes....Does anyone really agree with Mingus about Ornette anymore?