Guy Berger

Has anything happened with the Burton box? It's been about a year since this thread died. Guy

There was an audio recording of Coltrane speaking to an interviewer that was posted on here a few years ago where they talk about Jimmy Smith and Coltrane talks about how Smith's sound on the organ haunted him. Presumably we are talking about the interview with August Blume from 1959? Trane says, "It was Jimmy Smith for about a couple of weeks before I went with Miles--the organist. Wow! I'd wake up in the middle of the night man, hearing that organ. Yeah, those chords screaming at me." I think it's a mistake to interpret this as Smith influencing Coltrane. It seems more like Coltrane thought the organ was really loud. Guy

That entire thread is worth reading, because it pretty thoroughly discusses K1969's question. So is this thread. Guy

Maybe but more to do with developments in the MINDs than in the actual MUSIC itself. Throughout the 80s and 90s contemporary jazz musicians never stopped turning to material by Prince, Radiohead or Nirvana for inspiration, seemingly in spite of Marsalis. It's just that this was no longer perceived as proper jazz. No one had any problem with Coltrane turning My Favourite Things into a jazz standard even though it came from a a dodgy Rogers and Hammerstein musical sang by famed jazz heavy weight Julie Andrews. So why does the establishment have a problem with Nirvana? At least they played their own instruments! I think that the only real difference is that the people who confer "jazz standard' status on music, stopped listening to contemporary music in 1980, the year of the "last jazz standard'. Meanwhile, the label non-obessed world kept listening, borrowing and copying from whatever source around them, just like Coltrane did decades earlier. Perhaps more jazz musicians would've played stuff like Karma Police, Kiss or Come as you are, had the establishment been as ready to give them "standard" status as My favourite things in 1961 It's a bad state of affairs when you have to wait for Paul Anka to give Oasis "Standard" credibility: Perhaps my naming of Marsalis was unfortunate -- I don't think he (or the "establishment") is responsible for this trend, they are symptoms. I think it's worth keeping in mind that jazz standards don't come only from the world of popular music, but also from jazz itself. And there simply aren't many of those post-1970. Guy

Why? It's a nice combination. It gives the album a lushy-mushy sound that I don't like. Guy

I'm guessing that their argument, while somewhat hyperbolic in nature, is pretty much right. This has a lot to do with "developments" in straight ahead post-bop music in the Wynton and post-Wynton era. Guy

Here's a Downbeat article from 1960 where Coltrane talks about his influences. He doesn't mention Smith at all. Guy

Count me as a bit of a skeptic on this. Can anyone explain precisely what aspects of his musical language Coltrane learned from Jimmy Smith? Guy

Good call -- The Shape of Jazz to Come, Turn of the Century, This Is Our Music would be the three to start with

Blue Trane, do you like Coltrane's A Love Supreme? If so I would start listening to Coltrane's '65 quartet recordings chronologically. Other accessible avant-garde or semi-avant-garde dates: Miles Davis, Miles Smiles, ESP, Filles de Kilimanjaro Sonny Simmons & Prince Lasha, The Cry, Firebirds Eric Dolphy, Out to Lunch, Far Cry, Out There, Live at the Five Spot 1 & 2, Outward Bound Mingus, a bunch of stuff Andrew Hill, Point of Departure, Black Fire, Judgment, a bunch of other stuff Bobby Hutcherson, Dialogue, Components Archie Shepp, Four for Trane Guy

Watch out, Allen...

Is Ron Carter's cello playing torture, or just a "coercive interrogation technique"? Guy

I hadn't heard this guy before today... but I put Mister Magic on, and I'll be damned if I didn't enjoy much of it. (I'm probably fortunate in that I didn't grow up in the 70s when this stuff got overplayed.) Nice light jazz-funk. The arrangements are erratic and at times predictable. The strings on "Passion Flower" are pretty cheesy and on the tune "Mister Magic" I would have liked a grittier backing (as well as getting rid of those frickin strings!). But Grover can PLAY and he does. "Earth Tones" was probably my favorite cut on the album, and "Black Frost" is very nice as well. I wonder what this album would have sounded like with either a grittier or more adventurous rhythm section. I'm guessing most of this doesn't count as full-blown smooth jazz but it's clearly only a few stops down the road. Guy

This may seem crazy, but the only PN movies I've seen are The Sting, The Hudsucker Proxy, and Road to Perdition. Guy

I just listened to Electric Byrd for the first time. Nice album! Definitely has a Bitches Brew/In a Silent Way vibe, though obviously shallower and without the genius of the Miles albums. I will have to check out Kofi and Ethiopian Knights. Guy

He has been discussed here. I think there might be another thread or two. Guy

I'll agree up to a point, but IMHO there are at least 10 electric Miles albums to get before this one. Guy

I've always enjoyed this little exchange. Guy

By the way, for those who missed the concert, someone recorded it and it is available at the site-which-must-not-be-named. Guy

Not sure I agree. Jarrett's whining is quite understandable -- he had to adjust to McLaughlin's presence more than any other musician in the band. The end result isn't better or worse, just different. Disc 5 sounds a lot like the other discs with guitar added on; by disc 6 the band is more adventurous and starts adopting a more guitar-oriented style. Some noteworthy parts w/McLaughlin in the band -- the last few minutes of "Directions" on disc 5 (excerpted as "Sivad" on Live/Evil), the magnificent "Honky Tonk" on disc 5 (some of Miles's best playing on this set), the great "What I Say" on disc 5, Bartz's solo over McLaughlin and Henderson's start-stop rhythms on the disc 6 "Inamorata". Guy

I always thought Leibniz's metaphysical theories were interesting (though somewhat wacky). Dr. Pangloss! Guy

Does this make sense? If anything, I would imagine that Blue Note would be especially EAGER to release a second album if the first one was selling very well. Guy

I haven't bothered with the JJ box, but my understanding is that it doesn't have the final released version of "Go Ahead John", just the various segments that make it up. I just remembered that the studio recording of "Ife" (from 1972) is not on the BB box either, though presumably it will show up on the forthcoming On the Corner and Beyond box. Guy edit- From Losin:

More or less my assessment as well. That said, I think it's several notches below Miles's best studio (and live) work of the period. Not sure if everyone is aware of this, but the most recent CD issue of BF has a lot of bonus tracks that weren't on the original vinyl (mostly lifted from the BB box set). Guy

I have this set and am extremely pleased with it. His performances of the slow movements on the final sonatas (esp. Op 101, 109, 111) are profound. Guy