Guy Berger

Without haggling over what does or does not qualify one as an anti-Semite, it fits pretty comfortably in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion tradition.

Speaking of irony, it puts him in a similar role within the history of western anti-Semitism that Eric Alexander plays within the history of jazz!

You gotta remember, Baraka was a "radical", musically and socially. His patience for the status quo was next to nil, and having real, viable options at hand just made it more so. No, I don't think the timing explains it. Sorry. If Blues People had been written in 1959 I think he would have been just as dismissive of the genre. Even before the free jazz era, Baraka was looking for musical rebels, and the hard boppers definitely weren't that. I'm not an expert on Jones/Baraka, but he writes very warm liner notes regarding Gene Ammons's Boss Tenor. While the album doesn't fit into the hard-bop genre, if anything it's more traditional. Guy

Tim, thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts on this board.

He's also on Passing Ships. And Jaki Byard's Lennie's at the Turnpike albums. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned his work on Chick Corea's Tones for Joan's Bones, which is brilliant.

I've been recently exploring the Lloyd back catalog - Of Course Of Course, Notes from Big Sur, and Acoustic Masters I. NfBS is prob my favorite of the 3, and my opinion one of the best from the ECM run, but the other two are excellent two. Acoustic Masters is a nice example of Lloyd playing in a relatively mainstream setting - Cedar Walton is an interesting contrast to the more "modern" pianists Lloyd has played with on ECM. Guy

Just listened to Ode to the Death of Jazz for the first time last week. Great album. Another one I heard for the first time last year was Satu (from the 1970s). I now know what would have happened if Charles Mingus and Gil Evans had moved to Finland and raised a baby together.

I've been going through the Penguin History of Britain series (currently on the volume covering 1066-1300) but unfortunately the volumes covering 1715-1900 have not been published yet and I would be interested in an alternative. I'd like something that combines both political/military and social/economic history, preferably not political-agenda driven.

The advanced age of audiences at classical music concerts is something that I fortunately don't see at jazz concerts.

I saw Oscar as part of a Motian group in 2011 - an interesting lineup with Bill McHenry, Russ Lossing, and Eivind Opsik. I liked his playing. WIll check this one out.

Maybe a better idea would be to post a link to the ECM website, or alternatively to start a different thread titled "ECM press releases".

I don't know how much this will apply to the two records in question, but on the most recent Motian album (which I liked a lot) there was a highly unrepresentative selection of performances, tilted toward (surprise surprise) ballad tempos. So the ECM aesthetic, whatever you feel about it, can sneak into live recordings too. That was NOT the ECM aesthetic. That was the Motian aesthetic. It has a very different feel than albums recorded under Motian's name for Winter & Winter, or for that matter the live performance I caught at the Vanguard around the same time (with Greg Osby subbing for Chris Potter). Again, this is not a criticism, just a fact.

I don't know how much this will apply to the two records in question, but on the most recent Motian album (which I liked a lot) there was a highly unrepresentative selection of performances, tilted toward (surprise surprise) ballad tempos. So the ECM aesthetic, whatever you feel about it, can sneak into live recordings too.

Can anyone clarify what's in the Pharoah box for those of us who can't watch the video?

Amusing bit of trivia I found in Losin:

How long until this gets debunked?

Didn't Tony try to persuade Miles to hire Eric?

Personally, yes. Maybe not disposable, but dispensable. I can name at least 50, maybe 100 tenor players I prefer. The only Mobley album I ever owned was The Turnaround, mostly for Freddie's brilliant contribution. I think I'm fonder of Mobley than Pete, but up to a point I agree with him - he does seem to garner more attention here than some players I consider to be superior or at the same level. I'm not sure whether that is a reflection of his many appearances on Blue Note (remember the genesis of his board), the relative popularity of 50s/60s hard bop relative to older and newer styles, or maybe just the fact that his superiors have been discussed to death. Think of the "ink spilled" on this board on even more obscure/marginal figures. Personally, when I put on a recording with Hank, I generally find that I enjoy his playing more than I expected, which is the kind of thing that would prompt discussion. But he also released A LOT of recordings. A less generous listener could consider some of them interchangeable.

From Pete Losin's website: "Hank Mobley joined the Davis Quintet in late 1960 and immediately hit the road: Cloister Club, Chicago (December 26-January 8); Bradford Hotel Storyville Room, Boston (January 23-28); a live jazz program for Chicago's WMBI-FM (February 6); Kleinhans Music Hall, Buffalo (February 25); Village Vanguard, New York (February 28-March 12); Shrine Auditorium, Los Angeles (March 31); Blackhawk Supper Club, San Francisco (April 4-30)." link And "After the flurry of Columbia studio activity and live recording in the spring of 1961, Davis was relatively inactive during 1962. He was evidently unhappy with Hank Mobley, though he did not replace him until sometime the following year. J.J. Johnson was added to the group as another solo voice, and the Sextet was booked at the Club Renaissance, Los Angeles (October 12-19); Minor Key Club, Detroit (December 7-10); Jazz Gallery, New York (December 21, 1961-January 3, 1962); Howard Theater, Washington (January 12-18 -- Johnson apparently did not make this gig); Mardi Gras Club, Kansas City (May 18-27); Music Box Theater, Los Angeles (June 1-10). A four-night engagement at the Music Box Club, Cleveland (December 6-9) was canceled and rescheduled for December 27-30. Mobley is still listed as the saxophonist at the end of 1962." link I would definitely take anything in the autobiography with a grain of salt.

Wasn't Hank with Miles for about 2 years, going by Losin's website?

I don't see how anyone - even a diehard fan of the 1965-75 music like myself - could want to be without the Blackhawk recordings. They're great, close to the platonic ideal for middle-of-the-road (not too radical, not too populist) modern jazz playing in 1961.

It may have been that Miles was enthusiastic about Hank's playing initially (after all, the group was recorded officially multiple times in the spring of 1961 - something that didn't happen to any of the other post-Trane, pre-Coleman saxophonists in Miles's groups), but grew disappointed over time. Miles was gigging with this group (+ JJ Johnson) in 1962 but there are no recordings. Did Hank have an intensification of substance abuse problems during this period? He didn't record under ANYBODY's name in 1962. And that may also explain Miles's dissatisfaction.

I recently picked up the Lacy solos/duos/trios box on Soul Note and have been working my way through. "Only Monk" is fantastic - I really like it - but I found "The Flame" to be difficult going. Guy

No, it isn't. Bootlegs are releases of unauthorized and therefore illegal recordings and if linking to sites where they can be purchased causes problems it'll be Jim as the owner of the board who will be held responsible, not anyone else. It strains credulity to argue that someone will get into trouble for linking to amazon.

Why not just delete the link? Seems like this thread is generating fruitful discussion. For what it's worth, the policy of no links to bootlegs on amazon needs to be dumped - it's absurd.