Guy Berger

Have you ever listened to their music from 1965 onward? What specifically about their music do you find so awful that you can't understand why someone would like them? I find the "novelty act" comment by another poster to suggest that he's never heard their post-1963 material. JSngry's distinction between "don't like it" and "it's no good" would certainly apply here.

Phil Collins was considered quite a facile drummer in his time. May not be your cup of tea, but listen to any Genesis album between 1973 and 1981. Or Brand X, or all the studio sessions he participated in. He was a great drummer.

Music's music. As long as we aren't trading or posting links, I don't see why such discussion would be a problem.

She's a journalist/personaltiy on CNBC who acquired the nickname "Money Honey" during the Dot Com Boom - used to be very attractive, hence the nickname. She tends to give softball, watercarrying interviews to CEOs and other prominent individuals. Sort of a business world Larry King. Guy

A few times I've made "Rudy Van Gimmick" references - not specifically to the engineer, but rather to the use of the "brand" by EMI and subsequently Concord. The guy may or may not be a good remasterer, but it's pretty clear that putting his name on a CD moves units, or at least so the record labels believe. Do you find this kind of gimmickry objectionable? If so, where do you draw the line? (For example, Mosaic's big-box-style is also a gimmick, but I think most of us would say it certainly is not objectionable in any way.) While I find the concept and marketing of RVG, Legends of Acid Jazz and Keepnews editions to be annoying (why elevate some dude to primacy over the people who actually CREATED the music?), I guess I am glad if they are creating exposure to music that might not exist otherwise. I'm also less agitated about the Ken Burns documentary (as a marketing campaign - obviously it is seriously problematic as a historical "document") or "for lovers" compilations than I was in the past. I guess I would draw the line at something that I feel fundamentally compromisese the integrity of the music itself.

Yup. I'm too lazy to dig through the list of econ Nobel laureates, but would bet that the "imperfect markets" wing of microeconomics has won a pretty big share of the prizes handed out in recent decades.

Any change you are mixing this up with the June 1970 gig (also recorded at the Fillmore East) released on At Fillmore - with Steve Grossman on sax, Keith and Chick battling on keyboards? The reason I ask is that I could understand your assessment in the context of the June performances, but not the March ones that are the subject of this thread.

FYI - there are actually two dates from the March 1970 Fillmore engagement - the one that was released officially (March 7th) and another that was not (March 6th). The 7th is probably superior, but I doubt anyone who likes it would not enjoy the counterpart set. Guy

Time for some parents to go to jail. Guy

What about Charles Mingus's "Mood Indigo" from the Mingus Dynasty album?

It wouldn't entirely surprise me if Jarrett had said something like this at some point, but surely not about Thelonious Monk. I'm not even sure if the time periods match since Jarrett only hit it big after Monk retired from touring.

while herbie acknowledges evans as an influence - his major influence was oscar peterson. Ironically enough, one of Miles's least favorite pianists! I'm sure we can find plenty of other examples showing the link, but here's an obvious one - "Circle" on Miles Smiles. Most of Herbie's work with Miles pre-dated Miles's experiments with jazz-rock, and that's what most people are talking about.

I don't think it's an accident that Miles's three keyboardists from 1963-1971 were Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea and Keith Jarrett. That may be true, but it was not at all obvious that Miles was going "edgy" after Evans left. If anything the music after Coltrane's departure in early 1960 was more conservative than that made while Bill was in the band.

Yes. There's no excuse to like one and not own the other. The Plaza date is nice, if not my favorite live Miles performance. I remember being knocked out by Trane's solo on "If I Were a Bell", which is pretty much among his best from the sheets of sound period (which would wrap up shortly). Also, I think it's interesting to the follow "My Funny Valentine"s back to back, there's a clear trend: Cookin' with the Miles Davis Quintet Live at the Plaza Philharmonic Hall 1964 Plugged Nickel 1965 [there's one final version from Portland 1966 and it was never recorded by Miles again]

Aren't some of the Birdland 1962 recordings on the Pablo "European Tours" box?

Check out Edmunds as well. What about the Ford Escape Hybrid? Probably has solid mileage... not sure about the quality since it's an American car but Ford usually gets good reviews. The Prius someone suggested sounds like it might be up your alley. Don't like the look of the car myself but it is much larger than it seems.

Just listening to this on CD (picked it up as an import from amazon). Wow. The earlier pieces will probably require some more time for absorption but Cyrille and Taylor are out of frickin control (in a good way) in the last two pieces. A masterpiece.

My only comment is that today's airplanes are designed around an era of cheap, plentiful energy - something that is not coming back anytime soon. For short flights I think this would be bearable.

I'll certainly back you on that! Majestc! Definitely one of his greatest. Perhaps its un-memorable title causes it to be overlooked. I've always been of two minds on this record. "Out of This World" is without a doubt magnificent, one of the best things Coltrane ever recorded. The rest of the record just pales in comparison, and some of it ("The Inch Worm", "Big Nick") feels almost trivial. I do like "Soul Eyes" and "Tunji" quite a bit. And since I'm already blaspheming against classic Trane, when I went back and listened to "Ole" (the track), it struck me how Hubbard, Dolphy and Tyner sound kind of lost during much of their solos. To be fair this kind of music was super-new, I'm not sure how much rehearsal time they got if at all, but... the track only REALLY takes off during the bass solos, and then Trane takes that monster soprano solo (the best he ever played? At the very least it deserves honorable mention) which pretty much makes us forget everything that happened before. And maybe unfairly I've always shrugged off the rest of the album. Am I making a poor judgment? Convince me! In the liner notes to Ole Trane actually discusses how around this time (the album was released in 1962, I believe) he decided to cut down the length of his solos. You can hear it - this performance, and also some of the longer tunes recorded in Europe during the fall of 1961, are pretty diffuse. By the time of the 1962 fall tour, the performances tend to be shorter and Trane's playing much more concentrated. By the time you get to the 1963 concerts, the solos are getting longer again, but there's much more meat than there had been two years earlier.

Pap - there was some pretty heavy discussion regarding this album when it was first released so I recommend checking that out. My first thought is, I'm surprised that anyone who is at least somewhat receptive to this kind of music would suggest it's not "great" or "listenable". I mean, this is a recording that shows that even a "typical" Coltrane performance from this period was at a level that only a few musicians have reached at their best. The second is that fans of this album need to check out the other two nights from the Half Note, particularly the one that includes the untitled original "Creation". It's easily the best performance from the Half Note - better than anything on the two officially released discs. And you can listen to it on youtube. Guy

What's sad is, there may be people in that hospital who are no threat to anybody, and they might get this privilege revoked because of this stupid f'up. Guy

I listened to this for the first time today - great music. Kenny Clarke is just fantastic - what's that tune where he plays with brushes but extremely fast. Awesome.

Hey all - is there a list of the deleted titles anywhere? Sorry if I missed it.

While I like the 60s recordings I've heard, I don't find them as bracing as the best of the 50s stuff. Probably need to check more unofficial stuff. My fave (of what I've heard) is probably Sonny Meets Hawk. The Bridge just kind of gets a shrug out of me.