Big Beat Steve

No doubt.

Just in case anyone's interested: It was a pleasure to receive not only a speedy reply by James Harrod (thanks agian, James!) but also a lot of profound information that cleared up a great deal of details for me. And I was pleased to be able to return the favors by sending a couple of EP details and cover/label scans to James that so far had been missing from his listings. To summarize the gist of the subject of these EP releases of the contents of the five Jazz West Coast LPs, what is known so far is this: The EPs released by Pacific Jazz in the USA fizzled out much earlier than European EP releases (the European markets hung on to EPs for quite a bit longer as LPs were really expensive here and not easily affordable for the average jazz fan. So it made sense to market the LP contents in EP form - either for purchase in several instalments or as individual excerpts to give the customers a taster of the LP). EPs for the European markets essentially came from three license holders: - Among the numerous EPs relased by Vogue (UK) of Pacific Jazz sessions there was at least one EP (EPV 1195) with excerpts form Jazz West Coast Vol. 1. - The German license holder "Ton-Treu Schallplatten" ("True Tone" - their name figured only in the small print on the labels and covers, and their pressings were marketed outside Germany as well) released at least two dozen EPs with Pacific Jazz and Good Time Jazz tracks, including several covering the Jazz West Coast samplers: --There were three EPs (EP4-59, EP4-78 and EP4-79) that covered the contents of JWC LP Vol. 4. --Vol. 3 may also have been covered by three EPs; however, only two (marked Part 1 and Part 2, EP 4-48 and EP4-76) have been documented. The third one may hide among the handful of catalog numbers in this series of which details are as yet unknown (they do not figure on Discogs either). --Vol. 2 may also have been given the treatment with 3 EPs. But again, only two (EP4-52 and EP4-75) are documented. --I am not aware of EPs for the Vol. 1 and Vol. 5 EPs, and none figure in the list established by James Harrod. I think, BTW, that some of the lengthier tracks on the JWC LPs may have been edited and shortened by Dick Bock for release on the EPs. - Interdisc, another license holder (operating out of Italy as far as I have been able to find out) operated concurrently with Ton-Treu and released their own EPs with catalog numbers that are "similar" to the Ton-Treu pressings (e.g. Interdisc WP-5475 matches the contents of Ton-Treu EP4-75). Again the contents covered all of Vol. 4 and possibly all of Vol. 3 and Vol. 2 (but not all three EPs for each of the latter two LPs are documented). In total at least 7 Interdisc EPs featuring music from the JWC sampler LPs were released. But their covers (artwork and info) are a mess: Their artwork used the musician drawing of the Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 LPs (and the "Jazz West Coast" William Claxton folio) and they did not reference the LP volumes the contents were excerpted from but were numbered consecutively from "Part 1" at least to "Part 6" and possibly beyond. So it is not easy to identify the provenance of thier contents at a glance. By 1962 Pacific Jazz/World Pacific LPs were handled by a different distriubtor in Germany, but I am not aware of any PJ/WP EPs bearing his imprint.

I distinctly remember I've had such premonitions, though I for the most part cannot recall which ones they exactly were about. However, as far as I recall these "hunches" were not so much about records that I wasn't particularly looking for but rather about records that I had been looking for either for quite a while or for special reasons and somehow felt "the time is rife for a copy to pop up". And sho'nuff, that's what happened. About the only occasion like that where I do remember the details (this occurred last December) was the Lionel Hampton sessions with Mezz Mezzrow of November 1953. One day I read a review of a 12" LP featuring all the tracks from that session, and upon checking my shelves I found I "only" had a 50s original 10" with part of the tracks, and started wondering "How come the others escaped me through the decades?" And then, a couple of days later somehow a distinct feeling grabbed me that "the next time I'll stop by my #1 local record shop I'll find a copy there". For no particular reason because I had not checked the Hampton bins for ages. And indeed - there were two copies of a 70s Barclay reissue twofer that included ALL the music - both in great condition and nicely priced - one priced even nicer than the other so that's the one i took home.

For those of you who feel "imprisoned" by their record collection, do treat yourselves to THIS book: https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/160774869X/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=2MXVESJYVTUR7&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.fRjRhXXa6h-D4tj-akoMCIv5ziOgomRvRBGnzF8XRKFIYy5SuA1yDqwgMM9V7qbhTdKJYVTIzx5khbC-OlJusufAe-JhW4dh1wSwLrOnGtntmJtz8tLmXpIzXxc3sB_-fizgZZ6eG-2GO1fBVX_vLiAOZ_GlDOo5rY7kfYz07fxa837r9YG9MlUmmJ2jgtqcvv5Lfg5eS6eKSiJGRjoEK4Mm2kqoF8e0eG3m7QHHzFY._BwIslQgMwFDDhdx_cJdWUhFDQ7k6uvz59YI-RP6RJM&dib_tag=se&keywords=Dust+and+Grooves&qid=1719567214&sprefix=dust+and+grooves%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-1 Whenever you feel overwhelmed by the records you have amassed, just looking at the pics from various collections and "music living" (aka "hoarding" ) rooms at collectors' homes around the world will make you realize "No, my record collection isn't the worst - nor the most disorganized!" 😁

I will check my copies but probably won't be able to do so before Sunday afternoon. Hope this is OK. Beyond this, I would also be able to check (step by step) my copies of Jazz Hot (France), Orkester Journalen and Estrad (both Sweden) from that period (I have complete runs up to the early/mid-60s) to see if there is any interesting mention of that "new" Quintet in there (in record or concert reviews, for example). Obviously this will take a bit of time. I also have about two thirds of the copies of Jazz Magazine (France) and Jazz Monthly (UK) from the second half of the 50s up to the early 60s so some relevant issues may not be there.

O.K., understood. Including the "fewer things" aspect. I am trying to go that route too, but so far only in my other collecting areas (way outside music) where I am thinning things out slowly and carefully (but definitely). So overall the reduction process so far is a slow one, but at least the maximum has been reached with some of my collections, and in recent times the downsizing process has at least "started".

Wow ... What made you sell the collection you'd built up (no doubt as a result of lots of searching and crate digging and spending) just to start all over again later on, investing again as much effort (and probably money)? Dire need of money? Lack of space? Period of fed-up-ishness? Total change of preferred styles of music? Just wondering and asking out of sheer curiosity. Because that would have been unfathomable for me (for better or worse ).

Thanks for the kind words but my knowledge of such matters is spotty and far, far from comprehensive. In this case I cannot add anything about the liner notes. My copy of "Steamin'" is the earlier German Bellaphon pressing (BJS 4054) of Prestige 7580 (which has liner notes by Chris Albertson date 1968). This was not the only version released there - later OJC reissues used an earlier Prestige cover IIRC. @Niko: Mid-april - OK. But (just to speed up research in Jazz Podium): Which year?

I would have to know which year this is from. I have a complete run of Jazz Podiums from its beginnings in 1952 up to December 1966 (except one single issue from 1965). If it was published later then, sorry, I won't be able to help. I've sold all these (had the issues up to the mid-80s) years ago.

Sad to hear about his death. I had been wondering off and on during the past 4-5 years about their catalog. It seemed like not much at all was still available from Dragon in recent years, and looking at their website now I cannot see any trace of a mail order section anymore. Pity ... will have to look elsewhere for those reissues of 50s and 60s Swedihs jazz that I had passed up in the past.

Thanks everyone. I've sent a PM to "JamesAHarrod". And as for the 45 rpm listings on Jazzresearch, these 45s look like they are more recent than what I am looking for, but yes - it's interesting reading anyway.

Thanks, I had been aware of that site. But this does not show any release info except the original (first) one. And those ads strewn all over the site are a HUGE nuisance!

I am afraid neither Charly nor Bear Family would have been that obliging!

The recent discussions of 10" LPs and 45 rpm EPs on another thread prompted me to raise a question in the same vein: Is there a truly comprehensive discography somewhere (online) that not only gives an overview of all the five Jazz West Coast sampler LPs on Pacific Jazz but also their foreign releases (UK Vogue and French Swing pressings have different catalog numbers) as well as the 45 rpm EPs culled from them? Checking my collection a moment ago, I pulled out 45 rpm EPs of Vols. 3 and 4 from those JWC samplers (German pressings by the German license holder), figuring they were excerpts (i.e. single EPs) presenting selected tracks from each LP. But on looking closer at the back of the sleeves I see that both are marked "Vol. 2". So there must have been more covering the contents of each LP. So it would be interesting to see which EPs actually existed. General discographies (e.g. Bruyninckx) are of not much help because i) EPs aren't always listed, given the multitude of LP and CD releases and reissues that fill the columns in the discographies anyway, and ii) checking all the artists entries from the LP one by one in a discography to see if any artist's tracks from one of these albums are also on a 45 is a long-winding affair. And Discogs is spotty and hit-and-miss too. In short, I wonder if any discographer has ever gone to the trouble of documenting all these formats including foreign releases with that degree of detail. (Paging Mr James Harrod now ... )

You mean those multi-part EPs that came either with (multi-)gatefold covers or as small (7") box sets holding the individual EPs or as separately sold EPs that combined to make up the contents of ONE LP each? But the EPs that Daniel A was aluding to followed a somewhat different marketing path (and filled a corresponding niche): The EPs from Scandinavia and France (above all) sometimes existed as sets of 2, 3 or 4 to make up one LP's worth of music but often did not come as individual multi-EP sets that gave you the entire LP contents if you bought all of the EPs but rather came as EXCERPTS of the corresponding LP. Since vinyl was fairly expensive in Europe throughout the 50s and well into the 60s (a rough estimate based on average hourly wages works out at average prices of about 50 EUR or $50 in today's money for ONE LP!) many companies or distribution license holders figured it would be just as sensible to give the buyers a sampling of the LPs in question by marketing EPs with the contents of about one third of the LP (and an accordingly lower and much more affordable price tag). So for many 12" LPs there also was ONE 45rpm EP with part of the contents. There were many LPs on Prestige, Atlantic or Roost, for example, that had spinoffs in the form of ONE EP on the Metronome or Sonet (et al.) labels.

Actually - from all the record reviews I've read in period Orkester Journalen and Estrad and from those Metronome, Gazell and Sonet 45s I have - the EPs from Scandinavia usually had 4 tracks and played at 45 rpm. 33 rpm 7" records usually had SIX tracks (3 on each side), unless they were used to release particularly long tracks.

As long as you (or others who feel like you) don't get the funny idea of splitting your box sets into individual CDs and let them be disposed of that way. While browsing the CD bins at the record clearance sale at our leading local used record shop last April I came across MANY box sets that had been split into individual CDs that ended up sitting scattered across the entire room full of unsorted CDs for sale. So it took long hours of determined searching the bins to find a maximum of them, but many sets seemed to have been incomplete, with the remainders maybe snapped up by others or tossed into bins not (yet) put up for sale. And sadly the booklets had disappeared. According to the shop owner they had received these "sets" that way 😕. The CDs still were nice finds at 1 EUR each but this WAS annoying. Particularly since they included many interesting items right up my alley: - The Beat Generation (3 CDs - found all three - thanks again to TTK for sending me key excerpts from the booklet) - King Curtis / Blow Man Blow - The Capitol Years (Bear Family) (found all 3 CDs) - Jimmy Red - The Vee Jay Years on Charly (found only CDs #3 and 4 out of 6) - Bo Diddley (12-CD set on Charly - took CDs 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 12 - did not find CD #2 and was not interested in the remaining - incomplete - CDs from this set featuring his post-mid-60s recordings) - The Cadillacs - The Complete Josie Sessions (Bear Family - but found only CD 4 our of 4) Pity ... Even for the seller who probably did not realize (or care) that this definitely reduced the worth of his items.

I must admit I am surprised that at 64 I am still below the apparently "typical" age bracket of the more active forumists. But maybe I was tricked into feeling differently because in my area - among the jazz collectors I personally know - I am one of the older'uns. The other day I tried to arrange a meeting with a guy - my guess is he is in his early to mid-40s - to pass on a handful of LPs he had bought from me. But the proposed meeting did not come to pass because he was busy elsewhere - negotiating a deal to buy a collection of 78s and driving up there to collect it. So not all (collecting) hope is lost, it clearly seems ... And yes - more non-boomer blood is welcome anytime. Can only do the forum a lot of good.

Not very common AFAIK. At least in jazz/rock/blues/country segments from the 50s. The reverse (7" 33s) even were more common. And in absolute terms, that's saying something. Judging by record reviews and release lists, 10" LPs dominated in the US up to, say, 1955, and then a fairly rapid shift to 12" LPs was made. In Europe (e.g. France, a.o.) 10" LPs had a sizable share of the LP market much longer - at least until the early to mid-60s.

Thanks for the link. I had been wondering about what that discography might include too. I have a very early British printing (Peter Davies Ltd.) of that book but it does not provide a discography either. At any rate, a rather balanced listing IMO with few surprises.

I see there are many facets to this problem. Having recently turned 64 I hope "I am not there yet" either but have started scaling down at least a little, starting with my "other" area of collection (late 50s classic cars and all the parts and documents that go with them) and gradually weeding out things. The idea of letting some of the car books go was to free shelf space for my records and music book library, but lately I've every now and then caught myself wondering "Do I really want to add that many more records"? Which does give me the creeps at this time because the enjoyment still IS there - and some kind of "hunting fever" too. But great finds and purchases from the past 2 years made me realize that it would be unwise to encourage my heirs to sell my collection in bulk to a shop. Seeing the prices at which our local #1 record shop sold vinyl and CDs from quite interesting collections in recent times (and no doubt still made a decent profit, though they even let items unsold after a while go into recycling - which I only learned "after the fact" ) I shudder to think what they paid per item for those collections. At any rate, I think my son at least knows what to do and what not to do. His musical interests run in quite different directions but are expanding, and he has caught the collecting bug too. Besides, one of his side jobs during his University days was working in a record store (one of his tasks was to list items on Discogs). So he ought to have some insights. Beyond that, I guess there will be takers (somewhat younger fellow collectors among friends) for at least part of my (real 50s and 50s-style) rock'n'roll, plus country/hillbilly and R&B/blues records. But jazz? Much less likely, alas. Particularly since part of my collection reflects my eclectic and "special" tastes sometimes off the trodden paths of the "usual name suspects". Well, we'll see ...

This should make an interesting NEW topic for sure. Lately I've been thinking about this very question in connection with a number of my collection areas. I am not sure yet if this is cause for serious worry ...

It won't rhyme in English. So one possible (approximate and not very P.C.) rendering would be: "The man likes to play the viola, but the woman just gets a slap in the face" (To understand this in its proprer context, the sense of humor of caricaturist/satirist Manfred Deix always was very, very coarse and decidedly P.I. )

Thanks. At any rate, looks like the Message from Newport and his Newport Suite (plus helpings from his EmArcy catalog and his Birdland Dream Bands on Vik) will do (not just "have to do") for me.

Amazing. How would you characterize that "fan base"?