Big Beat Steve

The books do seem to do better in their coverage. Examples: Albums reviewed: Coleman Hawkins: 16 pre-1945, 44 post-1945. Budd Johnson: 5 post-1957. Buck Clayton: 21 albums post-1945. Lionel Hampton 9 pre-1945, 22 post-1945. Edmond Hall. 1 pre-1945, 2 post-1945 (at least a sampling of his outpout, and omissions in this case really can only be due to the recordings having been OOP or on obscure European collector labels that were not easily found in the USA) And so on ... And as another example, check this entry... It takes some thoroughness to dig that deep among obscure artists ... I can attest to the correctness of his statement as to the existence of a Peck Kelley section. In one well-stocked local record shop copies the Peck Kelley Jam twofer on Commodore sat prominently almost for ages (either they had stocked too many or - more likely - these were slow sellers). I did not pick it up at the time either but more than 15 years ago I found both the Jam twofer and the twofer on Arcadia at the same time at a shop clearout sale at 2.50 EUR apiece - a price at which you can take chances, and I did not regret it one minute ...

@all: As for that " dreadful deadening phrase "this recording will appeal to fans of traditional jazz" (that) recurs again and again " , I agree that this is all too generic. However, in the AMG (and similar) guides I have come to understand this as "this record is among those worth purchasing for fans of ---" I.e. among the better and more deserving or important ones within that particular style of jazz. This does make more sense and is at least saying something, and judging by the records reviewed I am familiar with it usually is quite correct. However - in those AMG Guides one thing needs to be taken into account: Somewhere in the foreword disclaimer of the book it says something like "undistinguished records are not reviewed". This may be so, but make no mistake: At least in the 2nd ed. I am often using for reference there are many, many records in an artist's entry in the book that aren't listed at all, but clearly not because they are "undistinguished" (indifferent, dispensable, unimportant, forgettable, whatever ...) but because they have long been out of print or because you just cannot include everything by everyone. So there ARE records out there that are at least "Good" and worth checking out but are not in the Guide. Besides, there is a fair share of records in the AMG Guide that are given poor or lukewarm reviews (with only 1 or 2 out of 5 stars) - often to highlight either poor packaging and programming or, more importantly, an artist who was well past his prime or had drifted too far towards diluted "pop" fare. So in the case of artists with huge output the reader is advised not to embrace everything (particularly from a certain period) but be cautious here and there. Useful advice, but where does the "Undistinguished and therefore unmentioned" come in, then?? And by what criteria (given that some nice recordings clearly were omitted outright as well)? And in the case of the Third Ear guides, availability of what was in print at the time the book was published is an aspect to be considered. There may be interesting recordings in an artist's discography that just hd been OOP for too long and therefore do not figure in there. In the AMG Guide the reader is warned often enough that this or that record reviewed may be hard to find or has been deleted, so this compensates somewhat. And again - comparison of the ratings in both books with those given in Down Beat way back sometimes is mindboggling ...

Are you thinking, for example maybe, of his exceedingly repetitive habit of referring to the intensity and power of a recording as "quite heated"? Inept (as if he constantly shied away from using the outright term "hot", but I for one have long since come to read past this ...) True, too. That's what I've often found when reading his reviews in the All Music Guide more or less long AFTER having bought this or that record.

I agree about the "esoteric" character of latter-day "classic" (or "traditional") jazz. Though I pick up such items from time to time I'd lean much more towards Mainstream Jazz too when it comes to "latter-day" stuff. So if that book covers those artists and recording periods, then go for it, and try to find out about the records elsewhere too. One I often refer to (without letting them dictate the evolution of my tastes ) for ANY style of jazz is the All Music Guide of Jazz (I have the 2nd ed. of the late 90s that still lists a fairly huge number of vinyl and does not hesitate urging the readers to go for the LPs instead of incomplete CD re-reissues whenever the LPs appear to have been compiled better). (Do I hear some forumnists heave a sigh now who have misgivings about Scott Yanow .. ?? 😄) Another one is the "Swing" volume from the "Third Ear Essential Listening Companion" series (Scott Yanow again ...) published around the turn of the millennium. A "Bebop" volume appeared at the same time which is also useful. Others that I would have been interested in and that figured in the ad blurb on the back pages of these books somehow never seemed to have made it into print). The focus is on CDs but LPs worth searching are also identified. And of course you can deduce which top-rated music on CDs in its pages would be worth searching for on LP. (Noted in passing, sometimes it is interesting and amusing to contrast the ratings of some of the records covered in any of the above guides with the reviews in period issues of Down Beat when the records were new! At times there is an abyss between what reviewers found - or not - in a given record ...) Then there is the "Swing" volume from the "Music Hound" series of album guides (which I for one bought before i became aware of the Third Ear series). It has its points but I find it a bit lightweight in its assessments and a bit too much geared to newbies. BTW, both the Third Ear and the Music Hound "Swing" guides also give some coverage to Neo-Swing acts current in the 90s (now almost on the verge of becoming "oldie" stuff too - but some still remains worth exploring IMO).

Yes that's an interesting thread (which I cannot recall having seen at the time). And I'll do as Allen Lowe did, and copy-and-paste that long review and assessment by Larry Kart of Vol. 2 for future reference. Pity he touched on Vol. 1 only in passing. (Maybe a hint at what Rabshakeh complained (sort of) about in his post above, and a reflection of an attitude adopted by large parts of the jazz audience: "Modern Jazz here, Modern Jazz there, Modern Jazz everywhere .. but Swing, or Classic Jazz? Oh yes ... there was such a thing too .. oh well ... ") @Rabshakeh: Your reply touches on many interesting points, and I do understand you quite well (and did not want to insinuate that you'd follow the contents of such "essential" lists without a good dose of comon sense). What I do not quite get from your post, though, is this: Are you looking for additional info and guidance on LPs woth checking out of swing and-re-swing jazz recorded DURING those eras (i.e broadly prior to 1945), or rather on LPs covering the output of Swing men in the decades thereafter (i.e. what is commonly referred to as MAINSTREAM jazz)? In the latter case writings by Stanley Dance and Albert McCarthy might be woprth checking out too ... but to be taken with a grain of salt as well ...). But in fact, (against my better judgment dictated by overcrowded music bookshelves here ) your initial post almost has me tempted to get me a copy of that book too ... Out of sheer curiosity (as a means of maybe gewtting addiotnal input on records I've had for a long time but haven't listened to for ages) and not least of all to compare its contents with "The Collector's Jazz - Traditonal and Swing" by John S. Wilson (published in 1958 and therefore with a different slant, I guess - and long-out-of-date catalog numbers, of course ). As for this statement of yours, "In the internet age, there are thousands of listicles and sources of recommendations for most every musical genre ... However it is still all very thin on the ground for later traditional jazz and swing", I agree that it seems so. The websites and blogs that immediately come to mind are very specialized and not really "recommendation"-type sites. And some I am familiar with (that reach out from jazz into R&B too) seem to have been somewhat dormant lately (i.e. the Crownpropeller and Be Bop Wino blogs). So all in all, your approach about guidance for LPs from that era seems a sound one for the time being.

Secondhand copies should be available online at reasonable prices. I see that on eBay.co.uk prices currently start at GBP 6 or so for this Vol. 1. No doubt some forumists will have a copy and can provide the info you ask for. However, I would not advise to take any such lists as more than a (very) ROUGH guide for personal explorations. And certainly not as THE Gospel. On the one hand, I would not be surprised if the contents of this list of "essentials" (beyond updates of pressings or catalog numbers) vary from edition to edition of this book. Which begs the question: Why?? (If recordings later deleted ever were THAT essential ...) And on the other, who is anyone to tell anybody what to listen to in a MANDATORY way? Suggestions, recommendations and advice - yes, but beyond? Tastes and preferences differ, after all. For example: Within the time and style frame of this Vol. 1, I listen to Louis Jordan much more often than to Louis Armstrong. Though I think I own most of the "essential" recordings of Armstrong too. Does this mean guilty feelings about oversights or "missing out"? Nope ...

No topics are closed here if I understand things correctly. They either run on or they peter out (and/or sometimes are revived years or decades later - if someone else picks up on the subject). BTW, I seem to remember these WCJ anthologies have been discussed here before? So now there's one more topic to choose from for anyone who is into WCJ (incidentally I consider myself one of these too ). Re- edited tracks (as mentioned by Mikeweil), I think James Harrod has provided some details on his blog.

I doubt it. All of this music has been around the (reissue) block so many times that those seriously interested in it will have all or almost all of it (and can get the rest without any undue problems). Besides, it's not hard bop. Which will certainly limit its sales potential in the minds of many jazz reissue marketers. And anyway ... the PJ compilation albums from this series run contrary to most Mosaic programing and packaging policies. What would Mosaic see in a collection of incomplete sessions, individual takes and tunes, alternates, some (elsewhere) unissueds and some leftovers? The albums made sense in their day and within the original framework (and still do to those who like experiencing the music in this "period" way) but I cannot see they would line up with too many Mosaic programming ideals.

Understandable and reasonable - and better that way. I remember the days here when certain discussions touching on the political again and again turned into flame wars. Some subforums had become rather unreadable because of that. Not least of all when one certain forumist was involved whose forum nick recalled a certain late 30s trumpeter-alcoholic. (Though for the very same reason as you I would not put my money in this auction, even if I were interested in any items at all)

I understand your wariness about print-on-demand books. Several of those I've bought at Amazon in recent years have turned out to be print-on-demand books too, but I really cannot complain about their printing and (paperback) binding quality. And I have a hunch that some of these "niche" books would not even have appeared (let alone remain in print for any length of time) if the print-on-demand method had not existed. My purchases that turned out to be print-on-demand (all bought fairly soon after the books appeared) with tell-tale info on the final page include: "Soul Jazz" by Bob Porter (Xlibris, Lexington, KY), "Jazz With a Beat" by Tad Richards and "In WIth The In Crowd" by Mike Smith (both Ingram Content Group, Milton Keynes, UK). But the quality of the books really is OK to me. I wonder what the recently-preordered paperback version of the Don Byas bio will turn out to be. 😉

Thanks Niko. I should have thought of that label listing at the end of this book ... The asterisik by the HOLIDAY entry means it is one of the labels "stil current at the time of compilation". But I have doubts about it too. The Billboard text of 25/09/48 that you quote mentions a release by Charlie Ventura. The label of this is shown here: https://www.discogs.com/de/release/7116579-Charles-Ventura-George-Walter-Gene-Krupa-Body-And-Soul https://www.discogs.com/de/label/999868-Holiday-Record-Co Evidently the same label as the one by the Rhythm Rangers that you listed, except that the color of the label is different. So this indeed seems to be a different label (with a "straight" Holiday script) . Not the one with the "bizarre" Holiday script that is on the "Jackie" Byard 78. So the race still is on.

Preorder price 27.99 EUR on amazon.de. An option for you, even if you are not in Germany?

I have that book and can check closer. So just to speed up my "research": Did you see which page this label is mentioned in the Jazzfinder 49 book?

The "boston Jazz Chronicles" book by Richard Vacca has the below about the early career of Jaki Byard. Maybe the involvement with these bands might give a hint as to the idenitity of the other band members on that 78?

Really amazing ...

So they converse (i.e. are interviewed) about how each of them writes about jazz (and approaches the task of writing about jazz)? Anyway, that does sound interesting. And I'm tempted. Though who knows ... a book like this with the "panel" also comprising a representative or two of well-experienced READERS of jazz (i.e. their PUBLIC) might perhaps have added some spice to the subject ... To open up perspectives ... (One noted jazz book reviewer from around here - the now-retired former head of the Darmstadt Jazz Institute - would have come to mind as a worthy candidate) At any rate, one overriding criterion for anyone writing about jazz (e.g. after having read these interviews) is as simple as this: "Get your facts right!!" 😉 BTW, where's that "free international shipping" info? I did not see anything to that effect on the book website.

Having just read the description on the linked website, did I get this right? Put simply, this book is about writers writing about their writing (and possibly that of other writers) about jazz? Hmmm ... Aside from the fact that on the face of certain indicators I might have to consider myself a "seasoned jazz nerd" (with a penchant for reading about jazz too), and therefore possibly part of the target audience of this book, I wonder : Is it through writing about jazz or rather through listening to jazz (that is or is not written about) that "jazz takes hold of its listeners and never lets them go" ? 😉

And then he went sitting on some island along with JFK and (a bit later) Elvis, musing about the ways of the world?? Surreal!

Excellent news! Hats off to you (and the author) That's the kind of approach I was hoping for in a book like this.

Am not so sure. Amazon here has a paperback version on offer for a tad above 30 EUR guaranteed pre-order price (which I trust they will live up to). Seems reasonable to me. No offense meant, really ... I just was sort of taken aback when I read the "blurb" in the opening post. Unknown? An enigma? (Maybe more of a maverick?) These lines created an impression that is so different from the way Don Byas likely was perceived (or must have been ...) by EUROPEAN jazz listeners and fans passably in the know. "Reception" of an artist and his work can be quite different, depending on where you are coming from, isn't it? When the book arrives, I'll no doubt pull out that LP with his 1945 version of "Laura" (mentioned in the "blurb") that is on an LP I had bought in my very early collecting days and gave it countless spins in the time after. Wonder if it'll create the same listening impact now (after having bought and listened to numerous other Byas records) that it did then.

No problem at all, of course Rovira is no major name in a DON BYAS bio. He is just a "marker" of coverage of Byas' stay in Spain. To tell the truth, the reason for my questions was just to get an inkling of an idea of the degree of depth of coverage of his European days from the early years onwards. His impact must have been particularly strong in (approx.) the first half of his life in Europe when European jazz was still "finding its way" and support and input from "name" jazzmen were absorbed particularly intensely. In the end it depends on how his life and work in Europe are presented. Coverage of his post-1946 career as seen through a European's (jazzman or jazz listener) eyes at least to me would be what is primarily called for in such a biography (and of course would require exploration of numerous non-English-language source materials. Not that this should present a major obstacle to savvy researchers in today's world 😉) OTOH an excessively US-centric treatment might run the risk of ending up in a "U.S. outsider looking in" stance. So I'll be looking forward to this book. 😉 Just pre-ordered the paperback edition on Amazon.

Luis Rovira on one single page is fair enough coverage for Don Byas' involvement with that band in 1947. Anyway .. not wanting to pick nits at all , but these were indeed jazz (or jazzish) recordings (within the admittedly still a bit limited framework of what European jazzmen were able to put on wax in post-1945 Europe, but seminal recordings for the recovering post-1945 scene in Barcelona). The presence of Don Byas (and other "defectors" from the Don Redman band who chose to stay over here) on the post-war European jazz scene was a boon and impetus for many young European jazzers, and no mean achievement of Don Byas. And the Barcelona days were part of the beginning of why he was held in such esteem in Europe. As for the Estrellas, I'll throw a couple of names at you, then: Josep Puertas, George Johnson (another expat!!) , Josep Ballester, Antonio Bardají "Chispa" (both Ballester and "Chispa" seem to have been jazzmen of almost mythical proportions on the jazz scene in the Catalunya region of Spain during that period). https://www.discogs.com/de/master/919653-Don-Byas-1947-Those-Barcelona-Days Just sayin'

Not asking for a sneak preview, Ken, but to what extent do the "Estrellas de Ritmo y Melodía" as well as Bernard Hilda and Luis Rovira figure in the index?

That would indeed be surprising. BTW, at a clearout sale at a local record store last fall a copy of BOTH releases (Jazz Guild and Nostalgia) were in the bins at 1 EUR each. I did not pick them up (already have the Jazz Guild LP, though paid much more at the time) as I figured (probably rightly, sorry to say) that demand would be so slim that there would not have been much sense adding them to my fleamarket jazz vinyl crate. IIRC I compared the liner notes and they were the same on both.

I seem to remember this article was linked and then discussed controversially here last year ... (?) EDIT: Found it now: