Big Beat Steve

AFAIK Egmont was a budget label that did the U.K. pressings of some of the Charlie Parker Records releases (through a licensing deal or whatever). I have both the Cecil Payne LP and AJS-8 (Lester Young Just you Just Me, see Vol. 16 of the CP box). The back covers of both LPs only refer to the contents of the respective records and to CP Records but I do seem to remember that other Egmont LPs coverd into other fields (non-jazz) and listed their other releases available on their back covers - like other U.K. budget labels such as Fidelio. BTW, I find that Discogs site (which for some reason is linked rather often here) utterly disturbing. Clearly something thrown together haphazardly from various internet souces without any checking for representativeness (let alone completeness) or plausibility (such as in the case of this Egmont link which lists a totally unrelated recent release). Pretty useless, IMO, this site - except as a sort of memory aid to confirm that there IS something along the lines you vaguely remebered.

Not so sure about that event in "The Screamers" being 100% fiction. Big Jay McNeely was one sax honker, for example, who is reported to have walked his band right out in the street (to the frenzy of the audience). Not to mention entire bands that did this sort of parading (such as Lionel Hampton's). It may have been fiction as far as Lynn Hope is concerned, though. Judging by his two most commonly accessible reissue albums - "Morocco" on Jonas Bernholm's Saxophonograph label and the Lynn Hope album reissue of Aladdin LP 707 on French Pathé Marconi - he was a sort of Earl Bostic on the tenor sax which makes him an unlikely candidate for such antics. OTOH the liner notes of the Saxophonograph LP mention his showmanship and his habit of doing the "bar walk". So maybe a case of "artistic liberties" with the way events and persons are combined in that tale?

I'm about to finish reading it. The "introduction" that sets the scene is a bit long-winding and the details on the Ferguson brothers and their "numbers game" shtick, etc. take a while for the reader to grasp their importance to the overall picture but once you're through that you really are into it. Overall it's very interesting and gives you a highly insightful picture of the way things were. Best read in conjunction with books like "Honkers & Shouters" or "Record Makers & Breakers" (so you get an even better picture of Don Robey, for example). And THANK GOODNESS it is not overly "scholarly".

FWIW, the (brief) liner notes on the back cover of Roost LP 2224 (which is made up of the 8 1947 or 1949 recordings plus 4 from 1953 as "fillers") alluding to the Bud/Curley/Max trio state: "Recorded in 1950 with a sound fresher than today's ..." So they did not attempt to "backdate" the KEY session on that record? Of course this does not PROVE anything and notoriously incorrect details on liner notes from that era are common, but I wonder what specifically made Roost indicate that date instead of maybe 1947 (which would have allowed them to pull the publicity stunt of indicating how advanced this trio was as early as 1947)?

I stand corrected, and just to make this clear: Of course I would not have wanted to judge on the overall contents of that book as I have not yet read it. It just is that I have become a bit wary of those who work too much of their own agenda into the way they write about history. I've been through a couple such cases - though they were not linked to "race" issues - and did not find the results all that entertaining to read, especially since the subject on hand would have been interesting if it had not been for these "agendas". As for this afram/euram business, I still don't get it. Nobody would have expected any author to use terms like "colored" or "sepia" (or more inappropriate ones) in a book written TODAY, but in a historical context, what is so utterly bad about just talking about "black" and "white" (wherever that mattered at all) as a simple statement of fact? As pointed out by someone else before, if you use key terms in discussing events that took place at a time when the key terms in question had not been in use yet (particularly if these terms are far from neutral descriptors), you risk giving a slant to the discussion that clouds matters more than it clarifies.

Actually the release of this book had (and still has) got me close to the point of breaking my habits and getting a Kindle after all (OK, the Teddy Weatherford bio had begun to steer me in that direction ever so slightly too) but after reading the discussions of P.P.'s writing style and political agenda, I am sort of unsure. I guess I am one of those who resent having all sorts of political agendas relatively extraneous (to me, anyway) to the subject matter on hand being permanently forced onto me and shoved down my throat while reading. I know I came to resent this as I read that "Swing Shift" book about female swing orchestras (Yes I know, no doubt Mr Pullman is a much better writer but still ... that personal political agenda thing ...) So I know how I will react to "afram", "euram", etc. It is all very well and appropriate not to use once-common denigrating terms to the extent they used to be but you really can overdo it ... and from what I read here (seeing how many seem to find it hard to gloss over those outbursts of the personal battle Mr Pullman seems to be fighting) he really seems to be overdoing it. All the more so because he is one in a by-now long row of publishers and do-gooders who seem to be intent on rewriting history by instilling present-day P.C. instead of allowing the reader to look at things the way they were AT THE TIME. Adding explanatory notes has never done any harm and could have straightened things out for Mr Pullman too but if he had to go all they way, well ... It's a bit like what is happening even over here with various books published decades ago and universally considered totally innocent, yet being rewritten and "tidied up" NOW for current printings in an attempt to remove "offensive" terms. No way anybody is to be allowed to see and reflect on historical events in the context of their times. As if you can rewrite history ... He.., some even want to see "Uncle Tom's Cabin" banished from the bookshelves altogether!

No, not cheap ... but if you calculate it per CD this amounts to about 15 or 16 euros per CD and this is not exactly uncommon (cf. Bear Family). But maybe not the worst deal, considering that this set was rumoured to be out of print. Glad you will be able to get an intact set now, and hope you will enjoy it.

Can it really be any more gruesome than those "In Disco Order" series?? For all I remember and have listened to this series by and large had a pretty dull and muffled sound. I find it of interest only if it can be picked up dirt cheap to fill specific gaps or when it covers to orchestras that have not been reissued comprehensively elsewhere. I happen to have a few of these Herman "In Disco Order" LPs and just am giving Vol. 15 (which incidentally covers the entire July 31, 1942 to March 23, 1944 period, i.e. not much there, thanks for the ban!) a spin now. The sound on this one is not as muffled as on others from that series (i.e. other orchestras) but nothing spectacular to write home about either IMO. OTOH, the "Turning Point" LP was around in various guises. I have it as a U.K. Coral pressing (Coral CP2) which is strictly mono and sounds very much OK to me. As for the "Turning Point" LP not giving the discographically complete picture - O.K., and no doubt one man's poison is another man's meat, but are we really talking about trying to get all those saccharine vocals too? Fer Urbina, have you checked the concurrent Woody Hermann V-Disc reissues on the Hep label too? The first recordings date from Aug./Sept. 1944.

You sure did the right thing, Jeff, and once more I feel it really was a blessing that my parents decided on their own and by their very own will to move into a retirement home that is organized in such a manner that people can take care of themselves (including meals, etc.) there as long as they are still able to and can then gradually take advantage of the assistance facilities there when it becomes necessary/unavoidable and/or when they feel they want to. My parents were still doing OK enough (though they had some health issues) when they moved into their 3-room apartment there at age 72 (father) and 74 (mother), respectively. Their main impetus was that from a certain point on things could only go downhill so they wanted to make the move at a time they were preared for it on their OWN terms, and luckily they pretty much did manage on their own there until about 2 or 3 years ago and really enjoyed their life in that home where my father, in particular, quickly became sort of "indispensable" in a number of odd functions around the house (much to his satisfaction and fulfillment). Starting 2 years ago, my mother now regularly has to have some assistance in the morning and in the evening but otherwise manages on her own and still is mentally very much on top (not bad when going on 88 now). My father died a year ago at not quite 85 after his health had failed relatively rapidly within about 1 1/2 years, but as they were able to use the assistance provided in that retirement home to the extent they actually needed it, gradually falling back on that assistance to an increasing degree made matters (i.e. coping with their failing health) easier for them to handle. I think one major impetus for my parents to take the plunge was having seen the (unfortunately all too frequent) examples of others who stubbornly cling on to their old way of life even at a moment when it clearly is no longer feasible and there just is nobody there who with the best will in the world would be able to take care of them the way they need to (we have witnessed several cases of elderly persons who even at close to 90 literally had to be dragged into a retirement home though it had been evident for too long a time that they just could not manage on their own anymore and actually were a hazard to themselves, above all). OTOH if you make that move when you can and do decide for yourself that it is time to move (on) then the attendant changes will be much easier to handle, and I can only urge anybody who may find themselves in the same position to think the matter over in good time.

:tup (Not that it is "probably better off that way" that there is no Mosaic (yet) but it would be an interesting and fitting project)

All the more reason for you to get it and to add it to your Crown exotica collection.

How many sealed copies are there of the "Butcher" cover LP and what would they fetch, I wonder?

I wouldn't want to derail your thread unduly, Joel, and obviously I wasn't there either so suffice it to say that what I remember from those various jazz mag reports on the Newport festival and the entire "Youth band" tour really was fairly shocking to read. Swedish sax man Bernt Rosengren wrote an article where he bitterly complained about the way the musicians were treated like kindergarten kids, how several musicians had plans of immediately returning home after ONE week of that U.S. stay (and only stayed on board after Willis Conover intervened) and how Gerry Mulligan was so smitten by the band that he not only wrote a chart for the band but also volunteered to come along to the Youth Band's projected appearance at the Brussels World Fair to appear with them there, only to be turned down because Marshall Brown "found him too poor a musician to be part of that project". Nuff said? Guess so. Other reports published at the time more or less went into the same direcion. No doubt he was a teacher in the right place and for the right purpose to further your musciianship at the time you were in his class, and by all means do hold him in high esteem for what you have learnt from him - but, please, don't do it for that 1958 Newport band project.

Very sorry to hear about your loss. Keep looking forward anyway. On a totally unrelated note (i.e. the following is really not a matter of respect towards of the just deceased - Marshall Brown has been gone for close to 30 years, it seems), though, this remark of yours had ME shake for a second: No doubt Marshall Brown has rightfully earned credentials in various fields but please try not to mention his "fame" in connection with the "Newport Youth Band" (I assume you are referring to the INTERNATIONAL Newport Youth Band of 1958, not to the Farmingdale band) - that is, unless you want to incur the ire of many, many European jazz musicians and scribes who witnessed that band project in connection with the Newport festival (those who still are around anyway). I won't quote from reports about that Stateside trip of European jazz musicians (all of whom had been looking forward to that event though they by no means were still "young"sters anymore) published throughout Europe but by all accounts most of the musicans really were bitterly disappointed by the condescending treatment and straitjacketing they received during that trip, mainly due to Marshall Brown's attitude which might probably best be described as "patronizing". In short, an opportunity was missed and many feelings were hurt.

Something for Chewy to get his hands on ...

One day I will get round to spinning my 70s disco records again. Or maybe not. Disco ... ha! Just fit for frisbeeing or dart throwing! I am talking about genuine 50s rock'n'roll and rockabilly (and their today's offspring bands in the rockabilly subculture). Music which I still like a lot but which has receded a bit into the background in my listening habits and also in what I would normally spin in my rare DJ activities.

Same here. (Well, almost ... though it's not a matter of having lost complete interest in but rather of music that has moved down a good deal on my priority scale). And sometimes events intervene that unsettle things considerably. A couple of weeks ago a friend asked me to do the DJ-ing at his 40th birthday bash. In compiling the music suitable for that event and knowing the musical preferences of a good deal of those who will attend, this has led me to revisit quite a large number of my platters that I haven't listened to for years (my preferences have shifted though I still hold on to those records). Very nice and satisfying even for myself, though I do not know how long it will be before I revisit these records again after tonight's DJ activities are over. But this makes it even harder to give a percentage figure. Though I guess it is at least 10% that I will never listen to again. But which 10%???

'Bout time SWR radio did something with their "Treffpunkt Jazz" and other jazz concert performances that have taken place at their premises for decades. Just checked their website but so far only the big, bigger, biggest names have been graced with a release. Whereas they could have done SO much to further the discography of German jazz greats (or "Eurojazz" in general) too. Thanks anyway for mentioning this label.

Actually, if you just want to listen into some of his jazzier stuff first and get to make the rounds at fleamarkets and garage sales, try to get hold of the record Marcel mentioned above ... ... which actually is a 10" LP with 8 tracks including the 5 that Marcel mentions (I am not aware of an EP but it may have existed). The Swiss pressing more accessible to you is on the ExLibris label. The German Opera (record club) label pressing isn't extremely rare so maybe the ExLibris one isn't either? The 4-CD box I mentioned offers a wider variety, of course.

I'd say so, yes. Jazzier, yes - more adventurous, not if you take all-out jazzmen like Mangelsdorff or Naura as a yardstick, but compared to Hazy's more mainstream output, yes, definitely. But you cannot compare it with that CD that you showed above because a good deal on that CD is made up of 40s big band recordings, and though that big band is very good IMO the overall sound is still a few steps away from the 50s Sextet recordings. A lot of the tracks on that 4-CD set have that unmistakable Hazy Osterwald Sextet sound, even when they venture into fairly straight-ahead jazz, while others that might best be described as "jazzed-up" instrumental pop still come across as "spiced up" versions of what you usually got to hear from them (no matter how good the commercially released versions were). There are few titles included there that they also recorded commercially, but just as a case in point: "Violetta Rock" and "Whisky Time" were released commercially on Heliodor and are nice enough. But if you compare them to the radio versions you might say that for the latter recordings they decided to pull the stops. "Whisky Time" has those catchy vocal exhortations of the title of the tune every now and then throughout the track but whereas the calls on the Heliodor version sound like "May I call Whisky Time now, please?", on the radio version they sound like "Hey, Whisky Time, man!!". See what I mean? (Hard to imagine for those not familiar with the typical Hazy Osterwald Sextet sound and antics, but us others we should be able to figure out, right? )

Thanks, King Ubu, while you added that link I did a search on Amazon and compared the track listing. 12 of the tracks duplicate Elite Special SJLP-6318 (first released in the 70s but in print fairly long - I bought mine new in the late 80s). Not sure whether the remaining 10 would warrant buying that CD. These are commercially released recordings, it seems, whereas the 4-CD box set I mentioned above is made up of studio recordings made for Radio Zürich and Radio Geneva and intended for airplay only, it seems. So this may be the reason why they were able to take more chances with their repertoire.

No, never seen it before.

My recurring thought about the interview blurb uttered by certain persons was: "Imposter" Yes, "spitting out chesy platitudes" is a nice way to describe it. Stating the obvious while pushing one's own (alleged) importance up front was how I felt about it. But the historical footage is really priceless and worth the entire documentary any time. To those who already have a substantial knowledge of the history of jazz anyway. They can hear and see between the lines.

Marcel, as for Hazy going "commercial", let's not be mistaken. His band had more swinging musicianship to offer than most other bands that went from swing jazz to more mainstream pop fare at that time. If you can, check out his "Classic Collection 1951-1964" 4-CD box set (Strictly Jazz 6260052). There are not only (strongly) "jazz-flavored" tracks in there but also some amazing straight-ahead jazz, 1963/64 versions of tunes such as Milestones, Freddie Freeloader, I Remember Clifford and Sack O'Woe. I think it's fair to say he and his musicians tried to keep their jazz chops intact, even if as a side business only.

I fully agree with your "overall" point that cheapo sets (such as by certain labels we all know about) rip off serious, decent and deserving reissuers such as Uptown by jumping on THEIR bandwagon and taking advantage of them. And I'd stick with Uptown in any such case anyway. But you know what? I know that I will be getting screwed if I fell into the trap of any of those CD resellers who'd charge me waaay more for one single CD than what an entire set of these discussed here would cost me (there is only one of that entire series that I'd ever be tempted by and I already have half of it on vinyl. But among the rest, one or two of the others would set me back more than the price of that entire set if bought from the usual internet platform suspects). THIS is where bitch slaps are in order. Now if that set should help to cut the ground from under the feet of those resellers who charge such obnoxious prices then I know that humanity will be rendered a SERVICE. Because pricing excesses will be kept at bay. A way out? Make the corporate labels keep things in print. Everything. No dice? Then once things enter the P.D. the rule of demand and supply (and willingness to pay or not to pay so much or so little for so much or so little quality - or vice versa) will settle it. Simple as that. That's part of life too. Like it or not.