Big Beat Steve

Here's a pic of Billy Mitchell the sax man with Joe Turner and members of the King Porter band (taken from the "Before Motown" book) in 1948. Is it only my imagination or does he look uncannily like young Wynton M., He Who Must Not Be Named On This Forum, here?

I have a dedicated music room too (but it certainly is not off limits to my wife ). One wall is lined with vinyls from floor to ceiling, the opposite wall has all the music books and mags, the audio equipment, turntables and speakers as well as part of the CDs and of the 78s. A table, the lounge chair (with ottoman) and 2 more chairs are in the middle. The rest of the CDs occupy a corner of the 3rd wall but I'm running out of storage space fast (some music books and the rest of the 78s already had to move into the room next door). Help!

As for the "Mellophonium orchestra", I can only recommend a listen to the 1962 transcriptions of that band released in the "The Uncollected" series ("Stan Kenton Vol. 6") on the Hindsight label. Pleasantly swinging, straightforward and non-bombastic within the framework of the brass-heavy big bands of that era.

The discographies give a recording date of 1956 for the Westchester Workshop LP (RKO-103) and Goldmine states the publishing date as 1957. Which sounds credible - the publishing date of another RKO-Unique LP I have (RKO-124, Herbie Fields Sextet - A Night At Kitty's) also is listed as 1957. BTW, does anybody know what the connection is between the Westchester Workshop session and the Johnny Glasel session on that Fresh Sound reissue? Any connection at all, or just a coupling of two fairly obscure sessions?

Ah, now I remember where Johnny Glasel's name last crossed my searches: I have the original RKO-Unique LP of the Westchester Workshop LP (and therefore half of that Fresh Sound CD) so for the time being (maybe wrongly) skipped that reissue. Yes, that Westchester Workshop is a very insteresting obscurity.

Agreed on both counts. Many celebrated musicians (incl. many jazzmen) weren't. A subject often discussed here. Why should the quintessence of those earlier discussions be handled any differently in Kenton's case? Some of Kenton's music is pompous and overblown - O.K., happens with others too. No need to spit venom (unless the spitters have a personal axe to grind or are out for cheap effects). As for dealing (or getting even) with that pompousness anyway, here is some recommended listening: Johnny Dankworth Orchestra, "Experiments with Mice" (Parlophone R4185, rec. May 10,1956). :D:

So to Herman Leonard, Prez was all about the hat? Which would mean that as a country boy in a perfect world you'd just as soon go bare-headed? :D Odd ...

See ... Just like the "pompousness" of Kenton is "another world" to you, to some the "noise" of certain Aylers and Tranes would be "another world" altogether too. Would make those musicians irrelevant, then, too. :D As for the "importance of the man" (provided this was what what the debate was about - which I doubt - it was about the Kenton BAND which you can like or not, like you are free to like Ayler etc. or not), at the very least he was a catalyst who brought persons, musical outputs and sounds together and made them jell and spark. Like others did in their field of jazz too. But, again, I cannot see this primarily is what appreciations of the Kenton MUSIC are about today. As for the telegram ... oh well ... IMHO it really just was the backside of the coin the other (front?) side of which spelled out "Crow Jim". Not very nice for sure but a sign of the times and to be viewed and assessed as such. And nothing to file in the "self-pity" category. "Crow Jim" did exist and was not a phantom. And it was just as silly as "Jim Crow" in the field of jazz. In short ... to each his own.

Judging by the writeups in the press of the times (I have those from the German and Swedish jazz press on hand) and by the reissue LPs, it must have been quite a blast (well, almost literally, though not too much of a pun intended ). Maybe I REALLY ought to have bought the amateur reel to reel tapes of some 1953 Kenton concert in Germany that a now elderly jazz fan (who sold me all his jazz mags dating back to 1953 a couple of years ago) recorded for himself as a teenager at one of the concerts of that 1953 tour that he attended.

Aw well, another one who still has an axe to grind after all these years. Yes, some of Kenton's music was pompous and overladen, sometimes he wanted his music to be what it did not turn out to be. But he was not alone in that field. Other name artists had shortcomings of their own in what their musical output strived to be and never was. Such as musical dilettantism in certain "New Thing" emperors' clothes disguise or utter "Third Stream" pompousness, to name just two. And Kenton's Downbeat rant rightfully caused some controversy and sharp reactions but for the world of it overall I cannot see it being any worse than what others had to state the other way in rather a categorical and therefore caricaturesque way at that time, nor any worse than that whole "Crow Jim" business that at roughly the same time was not exactly uncommon either (not to mention wholesale blasts at West Coast Jazz that were fired as if they earned the scribes extra writing credit if they followed that fad of put-downs). Makes you wonder which was first - the hen or the egg ... And after all these years it's rather pointless. There are artists who are pet hate objects to some ... so what ... Can't love 'em all, and don't have to. And in the end it all boils down to personal tastes. So I for one will rather stick with the Kentonia I like and mercifully skip over what I don't like. Nothing extraordinary about that in my opinion. Happens with many artists.

Another major link to the core of jazz history is gone. RIP.

It is fairly new (official release date early November, though it wasn't even on Amazon.de until much later in November), and like I said, it is not on Amazon.com yet (at least not last night when I checked). I hope it is going to be listed there soon but how am I to know for sure? Neither, unfortunately, do I know which other U.S. sellers would be the ones to watch (or approach) to see if they decide to import a batch and sell them domestically (which would make sense instead of having to import it privately one piece at a time and pay full airmail shipping price). It definitely is one to watch out for IMO, and at any rate there should be a worldwide market for it.

Haven't read them but would like to hear from those who have too. Actually I had heard about "Showtime At The Apollo" on several occasions and though the subject (at least as far as the "golden years" up to and including the 50s and probably a bit beyond are concerned) really holds my attention I've never taken the plunge. Something in what I've read about the book must have made me shy away - but for the life of it I cannot remember what it was. As for the other one, I admit descriptions like this, "Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing brings together a diverse group of twenty-four writers to discuss the theater's history and its intersection with larger social and political issues within Harlem and the nation" make me feel rather uneasy. Not that I would mind approaching music history from a larger societal point of view (I've actually read several books dealing with the swing era, for example, from that angle and found them quite enlightening), but I feel there are too many writers out there who have preconceived notions of what they are out to prove with the benefit of hindsight and have their own political, sociological, feminist or whatever (non-musical) agendas that tend to crowd out everything else, and some of these books too fast read like the author primarily is conecerned with setting forth his own ideas and then tries to make the history of the music, its actors and venues and the historical facts fit his (or her) own agendas. Tedious, to put it mildly ... After all, those who lived through that era and listened to the music and visited the venues for the most part were not trying to change society at large but were out to have fun, enjoy themselves and idolize their musical stars of those days within the framework of their everday lives that they just lived like we live ours. Maybe putting things into perspective and adjusting one's priorities at least a wee bit in accordance with this state of affairs would help SOME of those sociology-minded authors (and their readers ... ). Of course my fears may be unfounded in the case of this book but I'd first like to hear about it from those who are in a position to judge ...

Just a hint at this time of scurrying for gifts for your loved ones (who in turn might be grateful to know what they could give to YOU ): Those of you out there who love to browse through coffee table photo works of our favorite era(s) and artists of jazz and can hear the music come out of the images could do a lot worse than to spring for the recently released German book "Sophotocated Lady" featuring the jazz photographies of Susanne Schapowalow, covering the years 1948 to 1965. Susanne who, most of you will ask ... Well, on the German post-war jazz scene and through the photographers' credits in numerous issues of JAZZ PODIUM, the #1 German jazz magazine, she was well-established on the scene, up to and including making lasting friendships with lots of U.S. "name" jazz artists who had met and worked with her during their European tours. On a total of some 200 large-size pages, this book not only gives an intriguing account (in German AND English) of those years of jazz as it happened over here but also covers the entire range of photographic documents from early post-war basement jam sessions to candid on and off-stage shots of visiting U.S. stars such as Armstrong, Ellington, Quincy Jones, MJQ, Oscar Pettiford, etc. as well as capturing the flourishing German and European jazz scene as exemplified by names such as Mangelsdorff, Koller, Rolf Kühn, Jan Johansson, Martial Solal and numerous others. All of it in crisp, sharp, stylish, atmosphere-laden black and white photographs that are well worth the price of admission of 55 euros IMHO. Some more info on it is found here (most of it in German but apparently the book has yet to make a big splash abroad): http://www.jazzprezzo.de/schapowalow.htm http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/musik/0,1518,797227,00.html http://news.jazzjournalists.org/2011/11/jja-members-updates-november-2011/ (see comments on the book under "Wolfram Knauer") Recommended for sure (and no, I am not connected with the publishers in any way and have nothing to gain from stating my opinion )

IMO you nailed it pretty well, Tom. In every respect. Had to laugh, though, when I read this as an example of your interactions with a culture that not "inherently" yours: No doubt you've got an awful lot of work on your hands there, right? (Details like thsi sound familiar as I'am in a somewhat comparable situation as - though I do not live in France - I've had lots of constant personal contacts with France for 25 years now and in some areas of my private interests my contacts and friendships are much more numerous with the French than with Germans or persons from other nations so I can sympathize with a lot of what you state in your example)

You forgot one: Can "Smooth jazz" actually be considered jazz? :lol: (No, it can't, but let's not digress ...)

Isn't what Allen is complaining about all about "credit where credit is due" and there being a LOT more "elderly" musicians who'd - on the basis of their musical chops - merit some sort of resurrection a lot more than this guy here? I did not find much to hold me spellbound in those clips, so I really cannot help wondering what the fuss is all about either (this pianist's family ties to a noted jazz artist notwithstanding). Or is it ok to the degree shown here that eventually it's all about making up headlines for the sake of the headlines?

Ugh ... hip hop. Sorry, but not much lost in not having actively ventured there before. Any "post-50cent" fads coming up next?

What is "Dilla", please? Which (pigeon)hole of all (contemporary?) forms of jazz must one have been exploring in order to be familiar with THAT?

Which would be the most recommended reissues where this material is accessible nowadays?

Christmas music doesn't have to be saccharine and soggy. The Ravens' versions of the Christmas songs, for example, are far from being all syrupy. Neither is Tom Archia's "Swinging for Xmas". As for other music that creates a more cozy, cuddly feeling without being specifically Christmas and wuithout becoming too saccharine, there are many piano jazz trio recordings out there that would (and will) fit MY bill, for example.

"Woulda" woulda been more like it (or like Chewy), then ...

:lol:

OTOH if we assume that the reviewer is correct in pointing out that the MUSICAL life of Artie Shaw is passed over relatively briefly (and I assume he is because from all I can see no reviewer would get himself out on a limb by "misjudging" the contents to THAT extent by stating that book rather is about "who Artie Shaw was") then isn't it sad (or even maddening) that the author does not even get that (necessarily) LIMITED amount of facts dead right? I would have been interested in a thorough Artie Shaw bio but probably much less so in an opus dedicated (almost exclusively? certainly much too heavily, it seems) to examining personal quirks of the person on hand to the exclusion of a lot of the musical career of the man. So that books does not look like it fits my bill. At any rate, to me this kind of bio suffers from one major flaw all such bios are burdened with anyway: Assuming one wants to look behind the scenes and behind the "public" mask of a celebrity of this stature and would therefore benefit from personal testimonials of those who knew the person at ALL stages and under ALL aspects of his life, it was written WAY too late because too many of those who would have been able to reply to targeted questions asked from TODAY's approach are long gone.

Wow, that's what I call a thorough and well-founded review. As far as I can judge, Mike Zirpolo is one whose judgment is entirely to be trusted (I crossed paths with him on the Big Band bulletin board a couple of years ago and read a good many of his contributions there). So the reservations he has about that book no doubt are to be taken into consideration.