Big Beat Steve

The Bob Keene Orchestra LP on Del-Fi was reissued as a facsimile pressing on vinyl by Fresh Sound long ago (late 80s or so). Very nice, very Westcoastish (as Brownie said). Wasn't aware he was actually the founder of the Del-Fi label but after reading this obit things sort of fell in place. Let's see if John Broven has covered this "original independent man" (as it says in the obit) in his "Record Makers and Breakers" too.

@Papsrus: Among your discs you list above, Teddy Wilson really falls a bit outside of the scope you seem to be aiming for. if this kind of jazz is also at the core of what you are looking for we will be well into the Swing era and there will be TONS of material to suggest. But limiting oneself to the earlier stuff ("classic jazz", as many seem to call it nowadays), here are a few comments on the above suggestions and elaborations on these: Don't know what the 1949 Herb Morand sides would be like, but if you are into jug/hokum/good time bands, try to get a sampling of the HARLEM HAMFATS (led by just this Herb Morand) of the 30s. When it comes to very early "revival" jazz (beyond the Condonites), also try MUGGSY SPANIER's Ragtime Band (of the late 30s). For earlier key recordings beyond the recommendations by other forumists and assuming you like your Luis Russell recordings, don't overlook the early (i.e. pre-early 30s) FLETCHER HENDERSON Orchestra as well as McKINNEY'S COTTON PICKERS and the MILLS BLUE RHYTHM BAND of the early 30s. And in a totally different vein, try the EDDIE LANG-JOE VENUTI groups.

Ah, and and loking at the title of this thread I was hoping that this would lead me to discoveries comparable to those described by Bjorn/Gallert in their book "BEFORE MOTOWN" for the Detroit music scene prior to the onset of soul music there. But glancing over this thread I guess it would be futile to expect SEVERAL DECADES worth of local music tradition that would be worth a comparable writeup? It seems like we are talking about a 5-year (or so) span immediately prior to the outburst of what has since become known as the "San Francisco" scene in its heyday? Please do correct me if I got this substantially wrong.

As long as you do not get addicted to buying Hank Mobley or Lee Morgan Blue note first pressings, that is ... :D (See thread elsewhere here ...) Otherwise, sound advice in Hot Ptah's post here. Something I can relate to as well as I've recently speeded up my music buying too, and this for a number of reasons: 1) Some items just don't get any cheaper anymore at the current US$ to Euro exchange rate. 2) Who knows what inflation is going to be like in years to come so if some purchase has been on your agenda anyway, why not do it now as long as you do not overstretch your limits too far ... 3) Some not so old CDs have started commanding silly prices on the web too so grab them before that hits YOUR topmost wanted items too. 4) Working off some long-held wants lists and browsing through the review sections in some not THAT old music mags has made me realize that a LOT of what has been issued/reissued and has come to be taken for granted "for future purchase" just disappeared in a whiff and went OOP in no time at all so you really have to search high and low in order to find a copy for you after all. 5) Who knows what the pending change of European copyright/public domain legislation might do with certain reissues? Better act now just to play it safe. 6) Somehow I've found secondhand vinyl (even if not top colectible items) in decent condition bought at a good price in the long run never has been that bad an investment. Wish other purchases (and/or stocks) had maintained their value like that as well ... 7) Has any music collector ever really, really had "enough" music? Feel free to take your pick among the above if you need an "excuse" for more purchases. P.S. @MG: Ha, like minds, I see! :D

Milovan, as far as I know this German swing/pop hit of the late 30s ("Ich brauche keine Millionen", aka "Musik Musik Musik" (not to be confused with the 1950 pop hit "Music Music Music" by Teresa Brewer), made famous by an appearance by singer/dancer Marika Rökk from your neighboring country Hungary in the movie "Hallo Janine" ) wasn't exactly unknown in the USA either. Can't find a trace right now but composer Peter Kreuder may well have managed to have it recorded there after WWII. That Otto Stenzel version is definitely one of the lesser versions (not music-wise but as far as popularity went).

Thanks, King Ubu, but of course I did see that description on the Hep website too. I was hoping somebody around here had taken the plunge and bought this one. I like the classics as jazzed up by John Kirby a lot and have also done my share of listening to Hazel Scott (and others) and did enjoy that too within reasonable limits, but here I am a bit doubtful. O.K., then - anybody out there who can provide his listening impressions? Thanx!

I have both (the early 60s German edition and the recent 3-language edition) and while I do find it a bit unwieldy too it is not THAT cumbersome. Remember 3 languages need to be accommodated, and I am glad to see not all the pics are the same as in the original edition from way back when, so both actually are complementary in a way. And some of the photographs actually do profit from being reproduced in that (enlarged) full size. And next to K. Abé's "Jazz Giants" and George T. Simon's "Simon Says" books (and Gene Deitch's "Cat on a Hot Tin Groove") these Taschen "coffee table" books don't look all that unwieldy anmore! And compared to books like that the Taschen books aren't all that expensive for what they offer. At least not by European standards. Anyway ... I agree about Baker's (hello Baker, BTW! ) coments about the collectibility of alex Steinweiss' albums cover art. Nothing agains the graphism and the "period flair" but honestly, a lot of these classical music and Broadway show potpourri 10-inchers should stilll be floating around in the second (third? fourth?) hand bins in somewhat tatty condition and I cannot see them becoming collectibles overnight just because they're Steinweiss covers. It's jsut that - as opposed to most David Stone Martin LPs - the music itself is not that collectible. (BTW, I am not sure I wold have wanted to invest in an entire David Stone Martin book either. The chapter in Manek Daver's other volume ("The rare and the beautiful) did for me for the time being.

Speaking of the Hep label, has anybody ever taken the plunge and bought the "New Friends Of Rhythm" CD (CD 1086)? That "swinging the classics" idea has its charm (and I've listend to a fair bit of that kind of tunes frm that period) but I am not so sure if this particular one really does swing in a really jazzy manner or if it is all just gimmickry. Somehow I am a bit wary when classical musicians all of a sudden discover their jazz inclinations.

That book gets writeups everywhere right now, it seems. But that much money on one single designer only - really a bit too much of the same style - and a huge, huge part of it outside even the outermost boundaries of my musical interests, oh well ... way too expensive (even at "only" 350 euros at Amazon). Now if it was Jim Flora ...

Yes, Graettinger really was a case apart. I remember when I first listened to the original 10" Capitol LP of "This Modern World" I found it surprisingly accessible and logical (certainly not as unorthodox as the liner notes made it out to be, but maybe in the 80s you took things for granted that were unheard of in the 50s?). It was only much later that I read more about how weird and "out of this world" Graettinger appeared to be (or was made to be??). Maybe it actually was better I did not read about him until later?

It's a month-by-month collection of the original wording of Billboard news features and articles, reviews, club overviews, etc. as well as LOTS of ad facsimile reprints of whatever Billboard wrote to cover the entire R&B field (also extending into some jazz here and there). The index shows you which artist, label etc. gets written up where and when in the book so coverage obviously depends on which (indie) label made the (U.S. national) headlines how often. Certainly not 100% comprehensive but a very, very good overview. These books have been around since the early 90s but unfortunately, it seems, have remained under the radar of many. The R&B/jump&jive/50s rock'n'roll fraternity have jumped on them but not the jazz people, it seems.

Agree with Chewy. I cannot find any male pianist that had a King Cole-type combo and had SEVERAL albums on Crown either. Jimmy Beasley comes to mind but isn't exactly one who emulated King Cole.

Google is your ever-helpful friend: Examples: http://www.bookfinder.com/author/galen-gart/ http://openlibrary.org/b/OL2433205M/First_pressings

You've never ever had a look at Galen Gart's "FIRST PRESSINGS" book series before, have you?

What you been smokin', man? Would you please hip me to what's so great about that MOR pop pap listing on Crown? Surely a lot less memorable than their R&B/jazz stuff. Guess just to keep up I'd have to start drooling now about that Crown LP of Maxwell Davis's tribute to Stan Kenton recording (see "Bright Orange" label thread somewhere else here) that I found last Saturday ... So don'tcha think it's about time to climb down from that limb again?

True as well. It may not have been quite as evident in the US but there was a time over here in Europe (in my country, in particular) when this Third Stream "fusion" was touted as "the living end" of what jazz is (supposed to be) all about. Blown out of all proportion. As if jazz could come into its own only through the "marriage" with classical music. It's this skewed perception that still can get on one's nerve (because this misconception of wanting to strive for "respectability" by all means did not do jazz and its place in the world of music over here all that much good in the long run).

True, TTK. Maybe because the film and TV composers were not as high-brow-minded as quite a few of those 3rd stream people who sought respectability from exactly those high-brow "serious music" classical music exponents. AND maybe because those movie and TV composers did not intend to turn the result of their combinations into a "new form of jazz" in the first place. Still beats me to this day why anybody would have wanted to see the vitality and spontaneity of jazz being strangled and choked by "serious concert music". Classical music on the one hand and jazz on the other are fine by themselves and on their own terms but if fused together IMHO the core of classical music is anathema to the core and soul of jazz.

Of course that's the main problem with many of those "Third Stream" activities frequently championed by John Lewis when he was let loose on "orchestral" works over here in Germany in the late 50s/early 60s when this contrived mating of jazz and classical/baroque music was all the rage in a (futile IMHO) attempt to gain "respectability" (TONS of it, in fact ) for jazz.

Seems like a search for this series in the sales and clearout bins still is worth the effort everywhere. Went to a massive vinyl clearout in a local secondhand record shop today; little jazz there among the thousands of LPs disposed of but among what I found (plenty enough) I dug out very clean copies of the Bright Orange (716) pressing of the LIONEL HAMPTON LP as well as the CROWN pressing of the STAN KENTON release (CLP 5093, grey deep groove label, record in NM condition), each of them at 2.50 euros. Not bad ... Am looking forward to digging the Maxwell Davis treatment of the Stan and Hamp originals ... (Larry Bunker doing The Hamp's part sure is something else ...)

One man's meat really is another man's poison, it seems ... :D

OK, getting back to my earlier post, here's what I have among my 78s: REX 26027: Hunter's Dream (subtitled "Dedicated to Hunter Hancock's HArlem Holiday Show") / Eastside Bop by the Johnny Barbera Quintette. Obscure enough? Quite nice bebop combo sounds.

Nah, not as raucous as Wynonie - he's a bit mellower than that. Chewy, one for your clearout sales bin hunts: Try to grab Savoy SJL 1181 "Laughin' At The blues", an LP where Redd Foxx gets co-billing with Dusty Fletcher.

I've got a pretty nice 78rpm jazz combo on that label at home. Artist name and tracks escape me right now (obscure stuff, will check out tonight, and am not sure if it says REX or REM on the label but the label design looks just like the one under that link). As for Teddy Edwards, weren't the Roy Porter Big Band tunes (feat. Teddy Edwards) also released on that label? BTW, if you come across other REX releases, make sure you know which is which. There were "REX" and "REX of Hollywood" and they are NOT the same.

I think his JAZZ WAVE LP (Jubilee, 1956) was discussed here before, and it's worth a revisit anytime.

Which is why I said "after well-founded consideration". Of course I expect a good critic to be careful when it comes to a matter of personal preferences instead of shortcomings that remain shortcomings even after close scrutiny that is as objective as it could possibly be. You don't have to be "savage" to be outspoken, but that definitely is a very, very far cry from "mild" criticism. If a critic tells me in terms and by criteria that I can relate to why a recording (or a book) would not be what I'd expect it to be and why I better steer clear of it then I am just as grateful to this critic for helping me save my bucks from a wasted purchase as I am to one who alerts me of a great, essential buy. And again, in today's world of rampaging P.C. everywhere a good, liberal dose of outspokenness and "calling a spade a spade" can never do any harm provided that the critic really can back up his (negative) opinion with substantive evidence.