Big Beat Steve

Could somebody please explain this kind of logic (if any) to me? Did Pops record any bop (a.k.a. jiu jitsu music in his lingo) at all? So is there anything by him AFTER his "pre-bop recordings" to listen to? Does this mean jazzkat listens to those Pops recordings that are the most non-jazz recordings of his that he ever made? Strange, very strange ...

I have to agree with Chewy - of sorts ...: The studio recordings by both of them from that era are fine, BUT: I - These live recordings by Dex and Wardell (Chase & The Steeplechase or The Hunt, etc.) really aren't that bad sound-wise. No super hi fi but good enough compared to a lot of other live stuff that has been released through the years. II - They do get to stretch out there, and creating pure excitement is no mean feat either. Remember you jazzheads out there: Wasn't it the jazziest of the jazzy jazzheads that have always complained both about the fact that the 3-minute 78rpm limit severely hampered the creative flow of the jazzmen and about the fact that jazz lost its grip on the people and its ties with popular music and retreated into an ivory tower after 1945? Now here you get both - jazzmen stretching out AND connecting with the crowds. There IS "lasting value" there. So what's the deal? So just listen to these Gene Norman Just Jazz live sessions and all the rest and picture yourselves there, with no false pretenses but just for the ENJOYMENT of JAZZ. What can be bad about that? III - Creative "contemplativity" is all well, but they did their share of that anyway so there's something for everybody. Do you need more of the same all the time? Creativity doesn't have to be contemplative forever in order to be just that - creative. And if you need yet more sax ballad contemplativity, spin another Ben Webster or Johnny Hodges disc.

I am no expert on the situation of jazz in all of Europe in the 50s and 60s, of course, but you got to distinguish between two aspects: On the one hand, jazzmen (especially visiting U.S. stars) certainly were treated with much more respect and held in awe throughout the entire jazz community than may have often been the case in the States. So this ties in with your impression. On the other, the jazz fraternity (including its main promoters) seemed to have felt ill at ease compared to the musical scene at large and felt that respect for jazz as a valid art form could only be achieved by elevating jazz in every respect possible onto a pedestal similar to that occupied by classical music (at least that was clearly the case in Germany for quite some time and became quite obvious while this "Third Stream" was all the rage). Jacques Loussier definitely was a HUGE seller over here and his Play Bach discs are among those that still crop up in secondhand record bins here even if these bins are otherwise totally devoid of anything jazz (except for maybe the occasional Glenn Miller or Satchmo album).

I don't really know about the U.S. angle on this but from an EUropean point of view it was like this: Jazz in Europe (and here in Germany, in particular) had always had a hard time fighting for its "respectability" in musical and cultural circles after 1945. And what would bestow more respectability on any music in good old Europe than its approval by "legitimate" forms of music, i.e. CLASSICAL music? Jazz magazines went out of their way over here in the German-language area to move jazz close to those "respectable" musical art forms (denigrating most of Lionel Hampton's European tours as something more akin to that oh so condemnable musical bastard called rock'n'roll, for example). Presenting jazz in a "serious", dead-earnest concert setting was more like it. As a result, those attempts of U.S. exponents such as the Modern Jazz Quartet and their ilk to mate jazz and classical music into something new and "respectable" that became the "Third stream" was greeted with open arms. And would it surprise you therefore, that other main exponents such as George Gruntz or Eugen Cicero came from a Central European background too? Reading European jazz mags from that period and comparing the contents of our #1 German jazz mag of the time (JAZZ PODIUM) with contemporary mags from France and Sweden, for example (which showed how much more virile and lively jazz happenings were there), just shows to which extent still jazz lacked its self-esteem here and had to rely on that crutch that classical "longhair" music was. I for one don't feel sorry for the fact the this "Third Stream" thing eventually proved to be an artistic dead end.

Hey, so was I (born almost 2 decades after Charlie C.'s death), but no offense meant - when I said "newbie" I meant "Charlie Christian recording newbie" (no matter how long you've been into digging jazz overall). Because sadly it looks like there is not very much on these boxes that you do not have yet if you have the "usual" suspects, i.e. the Minton's sessions and those Benny Goodman Sextet recordings, broadcasts, rehearsals, etc. that have been around in various reissue guises through the years. Wish there was more that's a real first-time release or reissue ...

DSM's drawing style sure is a classic of the era but at times I find his albums fail to portray moods that go beyond the introspective, moody and "low down" and are therefore not always in keeping with the music in the grooves. (See the Tal Farlow album cover - don't have the record No. on hand right now so cannot give the original release No.; this particular cover drawing might as well have been on the cover of some down home "in the gutter" country blues artist's music, yet Tal Farlow's guitar style is light years away from that). To change the tone and make for a contrast, full marks therefore to JIM FLORA's zany RCA cover art. :D

From what I've read on another forum he had been in very bad health for some time so maybe it is a bit of a consolation to realize his suffering did not last forever. Time to play his two Liberty albums ("Sam Songs" and "Quartet") once more now ...

Could it really be that there are any seasoned collectors around to whom JAZZTONE meant nothing at all until Brownie set them wise right here and now? I am .... eh ... surprised .... And while we're discussing those Jazztone sessions, how about Lionel Hampton's mid.50s sessions for the CfD (Club Francais de Disque) and Bertelsmann, etc.? He was extremely prductive in the recording studios during his European tours at that time. I have most of them on original vinyl but they might make a nice Fresh Sound companion volume to the above Jazztone reissue. Speaking of Hampton obscurities, anyone familiar with those 1951 soundies of the Hampton big Band that feature titles like Vibes Boogies, Beulah's Boogie and T.V. special that are around on various DVD soundies reissues (as well as previously on video). According to the discographies they at one time were released on vinyl on the Camay and New World (budget?) labels. Are any more recent CD reissues available and accessible?

In other words, the above 4-CD set is for newbies and completists only, as those who've already been into C.C. during the days when vinyl ruled 100% will have most of this anyway. (Lest anyone chimes in: Yes, I am not one of those who drools over remastering gadgets in search of 0.1% sound improvements compared to previous releases After all there must be some sort of reasonable correlation between money spent and improvement received)

Looking at this pic, maybe it really just is the WEED that's "all good"? :D

No, just different pressings, I guess. The 10in had 4 tracks, the 12in release had 6, and some later reissues had 8 tracks from those 1954 sessions.

I can understand the necessity and desire of reestablishing some names in jazz history to their (assumed or actual) rightful place, and no doubt Oscar Aleman has been underrated. But is this what the discussion of jazz guitarists ought to boil down to? Being in the wrongest place at the right or wrong time (i.e. neither in the USA nor even in Europe) certainly didn't help in promiting his name. Not that this would excuse him being overlooked, but it makes it a bit easier to understand. Focusing on Oscar Aleman therefore is a somewhat narrow approach. I guess you might come with any amount of names of overlooked players of this often underrated instrument in jazz. Does this book, for example, cover Henri Crolla as someone who carried on the legacy of Django? And as for the title of your post (Django vs. Oscar), how about Oscar MOORE? BTW - Jim R, which of the books you mention would you recommend most to those interested mainly in, say, jazz guitar from the beginning up to the 60s?

I don't have the full story on hand but some of the tracks on "Jazz Americana" had originally been released on the Skylark label which was a slightly earlier Hollywood-based label that was in operation around 1954 but went bust pretty soon. Tampa took over the masters and issued them on its own label, sometimes even reissuing the original Skylark 10" LP's with the same contents but with new covers on its own label. The tracks by Oscar Moore, the Lighthouse All Stars, and "Babette" which was originally released under drummer George Redman's name on Skylark but later reappeared on Tampa under Bob Gordon's name (reissued on VSOP, BTW!) are some of those that had first been released by Skylark.

Now THAT would have been some fine cover for such innocent Westcoast music ... :D

So the bottom line is that there actually isn't that much that's really new after all? Just wanted to make sure before I dash down my downtown 2001 shop because (as you said) not many new items have come in during the past 3 or 4 months or so, least of all from the Fantasy/OJC catalog.

Great Westcoast stuff from the Skylark label! "Big Boy" (or was it listed as "M.B.B." = "More Big Boy" on the label?) rocks!! You did well to grab it fast!

A GREAT introduction to Gatemouth Brown's Peacock-era recordings (if you do not want everything strictly chronologically) is the SAN ANTONIO BALLBUSTER LP on the Red Lightning label (also issued later on Ace - or was it Charly? - with a different cover). Still one of my all-time R&B faves.

Checked out the FNAC CD department in Strasbourg the other day. This "100 Most Beautiful Compilation" was all over the place. It's being promoted in a BIG way in the shops there. Otherwise, the overall selection of the JiP series was a bit scanty; the JiP racks did not have all that much (considering how many have been released) but after searching through the alphabet I came up with a few goodies anyhow: Bernard Peiffer/Bernard Zacharias "Jazz at St. Germain des Pres", the Sacha Distel Hors Series 2-CD set (great for the first part but I don't care too much about some of those late 60s sessions included), and then Henri Crolla (a REVELATION IMHO; in places it makes you think this is what Django Reinhardt might have sounded like later on if he had lived longer and progressed stylistically towards more modern sounds).

Reading this, I can tell you what to do. Clearly you've been listening to the wrong 30s (especially post-1935) jazz. :D There was PLENTY of hot jazz blowing all through the 30s and clear into the 40s. And you did not have to got to the Condon mob for that at all - the SWING cats sure had their act together, and the sparks really flew ..you just have to look beyond the pop material recorded by the big bands of the day. Or are you one of those who drool about any 20s Whiteman or Goldkette or Ted Lewis recording and give the ENTIRE record the highest rating just because of 12 bars by Bix or whoever? Just like good old Brian Rust did - any nondescript 20s band would rate high among collectors just because of "good hot solos". Good hot solos, yeah, maybe ,but the rest? Now where would you be if you applied the same yardstick to 30s and early 40s big band recordings? There'd be a LOT of great stuff and it wasn't any more or less "confined" than 20s solos buried in otherwise stiff "dance band" recordings. So please don't compare apples with oranges when you compare the different eras of jazz. No harm meant, but it just had to be said ...

Ha, picked up a SPARE copy of the original Jazztone issue LP of that one in very listenable condition for 1€ (ONE euro) at a record clearance sale last week. Who could have resisted at that kind of money?

I have the 6-LP RCA Bluebird box set that Fer Urbina refers to. As for more recent reissues, all I know is that this box set for a long time was the most definitive word in the reissues of Hamp's late 30s small band sessions (these predate his big band which did not start until 1941 or so) since RCA CD reissues of this music used to be rather piecemeal affairs. Later on the master takes were reissued more comprehensively on the French CLASSICS label but currently only the 1938-39 volume seems to be available any more while the others seem to be OOP (see the Abeille website). So the AVID budget CDs might be the best possible option in every respect. I don't know where CLASSICS got their material from or how they did their remasters but I am willing to bet (thinking of the way those cheapo public domain CDs over here in Europe operate) that AVID took their material from other CD's and NOT from vinyls. So they probably used the Classics reissues as a basis.

I'd also recommend going for the late 30s/early 40s RCA small-group sessions as a matter of contrast with his later 50s small-group recordings that so many seem to be so fond of here (probably because they offersuch an immense lot of common ground with other mainstream or "middle jazz" acts and sounds that today's jazz listeners seem to be most accustomed to). Nothing against "Hamp and Getz" and similar small group sessions at all, but for sheer exuberance and vitality, I'd strongly recommend getting Hamp's 40s big band recordings he did for Decca too. There's a lot there that really burns! And his early 50s big band that recorded for MGM (with somewhat more brassy ensembles) is not negligible either. As for his live recordings, his 1947 Just Jazz All Stars concert recordings are a must. There also are a lot of Hamp's 50s concert recordings that are fine. You need not get all of them (to the more casual listener the recordings can become repetitive), but his Apollo Hall concert of 1954 and his Olympia Concert (Paris) recordings would be a nice treat. And a special mention to that IAJRC LP featuring historically important recordings of his legendary 1953 band that never recorded commercially (the one that included Clifford Brown, George Wallington, Annie Ross, etc. and a bunch of others that moonlighted in Paris and in Sweden - much to the dismay of Hamp). And for a special oddity, how about his "Hamp and the Old World" LP released in Europe on Philips in the mid-50s which features Hamp jazzing up European folk songs. Not sure if it's ever been reissued on CD but it's quite fun to listen to. As for "Flying Home", there are so many versions of this track recorded by Hamp that one really would have be more specific when looking for a particular recording. On a negative side, I'd rather avoid those 70s recordings with Hamp and other guests featured in the "Lionel Hampton Presents" series produced by Hamp himself. To me they are pretty lame and rehashes of old and well-worn ideas.

When I heard Cody's version in the 70s, it brought up vague memories of hearing Johnny Bond's version in the early 60s. I assumed that Bond's was the original, but when I did a google it turned out that a guy named Charlie Ryan wrote "Hot Rod Lincoln" and recorded it about five years before Bond. Trivia - I know. /O.T. mode on/ Not trivia ... ESSENTIAL "back to the roots" knowledge! :D Credit where credit's due (to the originators)! Commander Cody were revivalists ... /O.T. mode off!/

I can also recommend this book. One of the best jazz books I've read. Almost every page made me want to pull out the records. After this book has been seconded here, I'll herewith third it. D: And to go on in a different vein (following up the Chess ansd Atlantic recommendations), how about doing you book reading online for a while? This site http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~campber/rsrf.html will tell you a lot of details about a LOT of Chicago blues and jazz labels from the golden era. More than you could possibly ever put into a printed book. But beware - it IS geared towards collectors who a sticklers for details too.

This may be a subject of IMMENSE controvery, but if you are looking for other reissues of more obscure West Coast jazz originally released on minor labels, you cannot bypass FRESH SOUND (true for a lot of more obscure non-West Coast 50s and early 60s jazz too). I cannot help it but for the most part I do not find the reissue sound quality on those vinyls I've got all that shoddy. (Don't have too many FS CD reissues so cannot comment on their fidelity, but the Fresh Sound box they did on those Nocturne 10in LP's does sound quite nice, and since the inevitable "ripoff" word is going to crop up in this debate sooner or later too, this box seems to be the real thing anyway since it was done in cooperation with and endorsed by Harry Babasin's heirs). So, long live Fresh Sound, IMHO! Incidentally, there were quite a few vinyl repro reissues of similar 50s indie label jazz that appeared in the 80s/90s and that carried neither the Fresh Sound nor the VSOP reissue tags. E.g. Bob Florence Trio, Dorothy Donegan, Johnnie Pate (on the Stepheny label), etc., etc. Anybody got a defiunite clue as to where these reissues came from?