Big Beat Steve

I have virtually everything by him up to and including his Dot album (so basically I would consider myself a fan) but honestly, I am rather on the fence about this one (and am still unsure about the new Verve reissue too, considering the huge overlaps with previous reissues). Listened to the sound samples of the "Lost Singles" and on first impression I must say I do not find those rerecordings or aural updates all that essential. One for ultra-competists acc. to my 2c.

You mean all of Ghost's topics have become "ghosts"?

I don't think that should be a problem for anybody. Thanks beforehand.

Good move, but how would anyone know or remember accurately what there is that might be of primary interest? Did anyone make a list of the existing threads any any time? I am afraid the only option is to unblock them ony by one.

Which would be a real shame.

Not wanting to dismiss him too rashly but for obvious reasons of interest in the music of that era I've had this on my Amazon buying list for some time but reading the reviews in various places has left me with rather mixed feelings about the depth of coverage and I've put it on hold for the time being. Quite apart from all the other books on the Swing era, where would this book fit in and add something profoundly new as a listener's guide beyond the "Swing" volume of the "Third Ear" listening companion book series (which I rather like) and the "Music Hound Essential Album Guide" on Swing (which I had bought before the Third Ear book and still find useful but prefer the Third Ear book now). I do wonder what kind of "companion" this one REALLY is and if he aims at more than the total or almost total newbies to the music. OTOH, if he can provide an up to date guide to where to pick the best reissue(s) by the Floyd Ray band (to name just ONE example ) , then I'll be won over. Edit:Checking again I see that the post-swing big bands of jazz covered in the book should add something new vs the above-listedbooks but I wonder about the balance of it all. Will probably have to check sample pages somewhere. But what I can say I don't like (if the reviews are right in this respect) is listening recommendations based on Youtube. This is for tasters, fast consumption but not for ongoing listening. Besides, how fast is a book based on Youtube availability going to be outdated? (No, I'm not on Facebook and won't be)

I wouldn't hold it against you that you dislike THESE songs. Probably same here if I were to narrow down the selections. I was just wondering because the Jimmy Rushing vocal was in there and so were 1 or 2 Martha Tilton vocals. So no clear criteria for exclusion that were discernible. But never mind. I will check elsewhere. I just thought I'd ask you (as someone who'd checked BG's output closely) because as opposed to discographies like those by Rust or even Bruyninckx there may be more TODAY that have since been issued and would now be part of whatever reissue project there is.

Thanks! Did a quick spot check starting from the end and see a few female vocals are not in your list that are on the LPs. Will have to check against my copy of Rust, maybe.

@Captain Howdy: I wasn't specifically talking about YOU but about whether "one" would have all the material you are referring to here if "one" had all these Bluebirds twofers? I.e. I was asking a discographical question. See what I mean? More specifically, I have about 4 of these 8 twofers (and no doubt would be able to source more if looking closer) plus the run of the RCA Black & White 2-albums sets and a number of other BG RCA-period orchestra and small group vinyls (plus the occasional CD compilation) so I guess I have what I'd want to have. But of course the Bluebirds look like they would cover the grounds in the most straightforward manner. And FWIW to me the Bluebird twofer reissues (regardless of which band) do not sound that bad.

Don't know exactly which FRENCH jazz concert recordings you are refering to, but quite a bit of this "lack of shyness" in the 50s was not a case of disapproving but rather of factions of the rivaling moldy fig vs. progressives partisans trying to ruin the OTHER faction's concerts (see contemporary concert reviews). Childish. Certainly. Prehistoric hooligans? Maybe ...

@Captain Howdy: Since you seem to have explored this body of recordings thoroughly: Assuming you have all the RCA Bluebird twofer LPs from the 70s, would you have all of these (minus the alt. takes probably) that we're talking aobut here?

An oversight that can easily happen. The overall presentation is smilar and the books can hold their own. You know the first box set I bought from that label (out of only 2 so far admittedly - the other one is the MOD Records set) was the "Texas Box" on the BE!SHARP label featuring Texas rockabilly. This was the label's first box set and the seller I bought it from told me that when the Bear Family people first saw the book to that one they were in tears.

Except that the Jutta Hipp box is NOT from Bear Family but from Micha Gottschalk who runs the BE!SHARP and BE!JAZZ labels. He's the one I alluded to in an earlier post. His books are truly excellent that IMO rank on a level with those of Bear Family but he uses P.D. music material which is a financial advantage (and the saying goes that some were a bit underwhelmed when aurally checking some of the material on his BE!SHARP reissues). Though in fairness it needs to be said that apparently his MOD Records box set, for example, had the blessings of some surviving musicians from those sessions.

So you'd exclude the Reprise recordings?

What do you mean, exactly? As with any imported product, this product of course is more expensive if you buy it in an import country. And in my case the (domestic) cost in the US PLUS overseas shipping PLUS customs duties due on arrival here were a wee $5 above what the list price of the imported product was at Jazzmessengers (incuding shipping because their box set prices include shipping to other countries in the EU). I.e you pay more for the product but save on shipping and customs. In my case it almost was a draw between the two options. BUT - as discussed in the Savory thread, of course customs duties and associated "handling" (i.e. ripoff) charges vary (e.g. by country) and may make buying in the US substantially more expensive. OTOH it is a rare occurrence that a large box set slips through customs without any duties being charged (in which case you'd save by buying in the US). So that's that ...

Depends on how you go about it and what the actual box set is. I was eager to get my hands on the Savory box set and chose the cheaper US of the two airmail shipping rates quoted by Mosaic. Still got it several weeks before Jazzmessengers had it listed and in the end I paid about $5 more (INCLUDING our customs duties) than what I would have paid at Jazzmessengers all included. I'm fine with that.

Wait wait wait ... THAT can be said of a LOT of the Mosaic reissues too. So each buyer will have to work it out for himself if he sees substantial sonic improvements that warrant the outlay and/or if he wants to buy an item for its "superior" presentation. (I for one would be more interested in the other artists anyway ... yes, Ellington is around, but he isn't the beginning AND end of the Cotton Club history so a wider variety of artists is always welcome to flesh out the (Ellington) bones of this subject matter ) As for the price, in Bear Family tradition a good deal of it acounts for the book. 2 CDs with a 125-page full-size book with that lavish a presentation (if the photos are anything to go by) isn't standard stuff. And one final aspect about price and prior availability, yes that price is high (I am more tempted by the minute ...) but OTOH other publishers (even though SPECIALIZING in books and having a good reputation) have managed to almost ruin a truly excellent subject with sloppy printing and packing in random filler stuff that can be looked up elsewhere and does not add all that much to the actual subject, yet their book is expensive. (google "Bob Inman" if you are curious ) So "flaws" like the question of what's expensive and "not new" after all can be found all too often.

Yes I agree there. Though I wouldn't say the are "not" interested in the jazz market but rather that this is of low priority to them. So they go where they are more firmly present.

I sympathize with your approach (In fact I have filed my Louis Jordan - and Buddy Johnson - records in my blues and R&B section, not in the jazz section) but I am afraid that in part you are wrong. While his Mercury sides leaned towards R&B, the Decca output of his prime years definitely was part of the happenings in jazz. Lumping this in with an "R&B" market (before there was one as such) just because it was "popular" is one of those often-seen pigeonholing efforts that does not do the reality of jazz of the late 30s to early 50s justice. Same with a good deal of what Julia Lee did. You would not want to lump in Benny Goodman of the Carnegie Hall period with U.S "pop" music either just because was "popular", right? Beyond that comparison, if you look closer it is rather difficult to establish accurate stylistic boundaries and a good deal of R&B WAS part of post-1945 jazz in the way it MATTERED to the African-American audience.

50s and 60s country music will provide the background to only a small part of that Civil War "reenactment" fan scene (that has abated pretty much by now AFAIK). in the early days they did a fair bit of "contemporary" C&W artists playing in a more traditional style but this was more of a sideline to their R'n'R/rockabilly reissues that have alwawys made up the bulk of their stuff. Still they have never been cheap and their box sets above all rely on extremely high standards (to the extent that they often really are too much of a good thing - are there that many completists for some of these country artists?). The books that go with their box sets really are second to none (yes, even Mosaic pales in comparison) and the only others that I am aware of that come close in that respect come from a label that largely relies on Public Domain material for the music. @Captain Howdy: Their "jazz roster" isn't small but choice and VERY much "special interest" stuff even by jazz collectors' standards. https://www.bear-family.de/bear-family/deutsche-serien/jazz-in-deutschland/ They cannot have been big sellers yet BF hangs on to these items (I bought that Jazz Festival box set some 25 years ago - before I even had a CD player - and several others in the 90s and they are still listed today, even though some are temporarily OOP it seems). Others of their items such as their Julia Lee and Louis Jordan sets (offsprings from their deals with the labels they licensed for reissue) straddle the fence of jazz too. And then they have special items that are a "niche within the jazz niche" such as this one that I only became aware of now when I checked their site for this post: https://www.bear-family.de/various-history-cotton-club-2-cd.html Of course they can probably afford to cross-subsidize such items (which is a huge advantage compared to Mosaic) but it takes real dedication to put out something like that in the first place.

That's it. And that's why they have milked labels to the very last drop that on the face of it are not prime targets for cult reissue fetichists, e.g. Mercury. And apparently they did not license the EmArcy branch of it, or else they would have been able to add a lot to their jazz reissue roster.

Yes, esoteric sometimes is the word. The Buddy Johnson box is a case in point. These Mercury recordings can get repetitive if listened to in larger batches. (A good chunk of them was reissued on LP on Official and they were around for a while so there was a chance for many to listen in or cover their needs). You really have to be a dedicated completist to grab this. For another example, the country music clientele may be a larger one than the jazz faction but people all falling over themselves wanting to grab a 5-CD box set of Tommy Collins' works? (and so on ...) But let's see how they continue in the longer run now that Richard Weize has bowed out.

At any rate, it seems like they are about to lose a bit of goodwill here. Wonder if this is worth it ...

Running through the Decca congolomerate including its subsidiaries already mentioned here, the above quote reminded me I have the below one a.o. (which the AAJ guide saw fit to give 3 stars - that much for its all-out "easy-listening" character ): Checking the shelves further, there's this, taking buyer information one step further .... But then ... pulling out the one next to it I am beginning to wonder if they were that serious about that "accompaniment" thing after all: Piano by Dick Marx, bass by John Frigo, who'da thunk it?

I just checked the few period U.S. Decca originals with vocals that I have and wonder by what criteria they did or didn't include that "Vocal with instrumental accompaniment" statement on the cover. DL 74045 and DL 74046 have nothing, whereas the more recent (if the numbers mean anything) DL 74640 does include that statement on the back cover. And among the even older 10'" LP releases DL 5564 has nothing on the cover either (nor on the label) whereas DL 5567 (from the same series of LPs) says "Singing with instrumental accompaniment". It cannot be a matter of whether the LP includes vocals THROUGHOUT either. DL 74046 is all vocal, whereas all 8 tracks on DL 5567 in fact are instrumentals!