Big Beat Steve

With me it is not a matter of never listening to them but of just postponing listening to new purchases (that were bought when the occasion presented itself and in the knowledge that they DID fit my tastes) when required up to the time I felt/feel in the mood for that particular style of music. When I am on a West Coast Jazz listening binge, for example, I know I won't really and fully appreciate listening to a newly bought Ernest Tubb LP. And vice versa in all directions of styles. So it' s postponed. But every item's time will come. Overall, just by sheer statistics I KNOW there are loads of records in my collection that I will probably never listen to again for the rest of my life. But I have no idea which ones they are (because listening moods and habits are not totally predictable into the long-term future) so they are keepers. (For the time being, anyway ... ) I'd guess this is the case with many collectors with larger collections out there.

I was very, very, VERY reluctant to make the transition and held out for a long time well into the 1990s, spurred both by the fact that early CDs often used to be more expensive here than comparable LPs and offering not that much more music to offset the higher cost and that this coincided with secondhand LPs dropping in price (noticed particularly during my trips to London and its record shops in the 90s) as many seemed to unload their vinyl in favor of CDs. I knew I could not hold out forever and did in fact buy the Bear Family box below as one of my very, very first CD buys long before I got a CD player as this was right up my alley and I KNEW I'd never get this music in any other form, originals being rare and pricy and much of the contents never having been released before. So I decided to grab it while it was available, postponing listening until some time later (little did I imagine that this item remained in print for very long time): https://www.discogs.com/de/Various-Deutsches-Jazz-Festival-19541955/release/3829499 I got myself a CD player 2 or 3 years later (1993 or so), finally makng the plunge because the LP racks in the shops kept shrinking fast and more and more reissues in niche fields such as R&B, Jump Blues and Western Swing made their FIRST appearances ever on CD. So it was CDs or none at all. (This also was the time when the Chronological Classics CD series were in full bloom and they were very tempting too.) To this day I still prefer vinyl if I have the choice, though.

Looks like one of those Italian series from the 80s to me. Vaguely remember that series from the racks in the record shops.

Just out of sheer curiosity: There was a time in the pre-digital days when (put in an oversimplified manner) the sound restorer would individually tape off pops, crackles, scratches and other "out" sounds from a slooooow-running tape of the track to be restored and thus eliminate this foreign noise to the extent possible at all. Time-consuming but would this be possible today and with today#s technology with voice-overs too (if somebody wanted to go to that extreme trouble)? I've often wondered if something could be done about this sort of "foreign noise" in the case of basically interesting recordings where the announcer (or whoever ...) talks right into the tune/music.

No doubt they picked this up from the Jamaican Sound System DJs who went to extreme excesses in trying to guard their secrets and "advance knowledge" vs their (purported) competitors. Can happen even with DJs in more modern times. But the music itself still was the real thing throughout and not something MARKETED from the start as something totally different. So these things are not comparable at all with what the thread starter is getting at. That first one you show is amazing. Flyright? not surprising. They indeed packaged this in the typical artwork style of the Flyright and Krazy Kat labels that reissued a lot of blues and R&B obscurities back then. This one would have fitted right into their line of releases by The Great Gates, Charlie Gonzales etc. and many other obscure artists from the 50s and no doubt would have fooled me too. Pianists seem to have been a favorite in this field. I remember a jazz radio show along these lines from sometime in the 70s. Might have either been around Carnival or Halloween when the show host played an entire show of piano boogie "field recordings" by a "newly rediscovered and previously unrecorded old master of the 88s" from somewhere in the honky tonks of the Deep South who went by the name of ALEX CLAMPSAVER. Who?? Well, at the end of the show the host gave it away ... just a spoof and an anglicized version of the name of famous German boogie pianist AXEL ZWINGENBERGER (those who are familiar with German around here will understand and appreciate the play on words in this "literal" translation of the name). Fun anyway ...

You got a link, maybe?

4 of them are on Classics 1445 ("Buddy De Franco 1949-1952". Bought it years ago (when some Classics CDs came up for sale again after the demise of this series) as his MGM recordings were difficult to access elsewhere (though not all of them are that essential or even all-out jazzy). Time to listen to this particular session again so thanks for bringing it to everybody's attention.

I'm sure it did, though probably not always for his whining, with him having died in November, 1977. And since "whining" seems to go with "berating" here, I wonder how big an artist one would have to have been so as not have been kept back by this. Or were they? Charles Mingus, anyone?

I understand very well. Visitors every now and then marvel at my music room where one entire main wall is taken up by most of my vinyl (and the opposite wall by my music books and magazines). However, I also happen to move in circles where collecting records as part of the music hobby is not such a rare thing, so some friends have substantial collections too (though not quite as much as I have accumulated). OTOH, there are some visitors (who are very welcome anyway) to whom I'd not really show my music room - just to avoid the reactions you describe. As you say, I also limit my expenditure elsewhere (without any economic burden on my family either) and don't need an upmarket, expensive car or the latest electronic entertainment gadgets, overly expensive garb, etc. (Though to be honest, my "other" hobby - 50s cars and the spares and literature that go with them - does take up a lot of space too but the main investments have been made long ago and this hobby has in part paid for itself through sometimes intense parts swapping etc. Obviously that stuff is outside the house except for the "old car papers" - where I have severely cut down my buying in recent years too ). Having a room all to the music is ideal and I was glad to be able to furnish our house like this but you can get carried away too - or misjudge how fast the shelves tend to fill up. For quite some time I had my 12in LPs stuffed way too tightly (having run out of space) but last winter I finally shifted my 78s to the room next door, shifted my 10" LPs into where the 78s were (all this rearranging involved much more work to free up space for the 78s in the first place but that's another story ). I now have quite a bit more looseness and free space on the LP shelves and hope this will last me for a while. As for unplayed LPs, I try to give my purchases at least one listen before filing them where they belong and this usually works out within 2 weeks or so after buying even when I grab bulks at special sales, but I now have a (small) stack of LPs bought in March, July and September that I still haven't listened to (they are nice to have and it's nice to know you have them but they have not yet made it to my top listening priorities since).

Well, they WOULD BE "P.D." in Europe.

Being the Basie fan that I am, I MIGHT even be tempted by those for completeness sake (and bouts of analytics ) if I came across them dirt cheap but as it is I am quite happy with the six twofers with the master takes.

At any rate it's much more to the point and it nails the problem. There are alternate takes that are sufficiently different to capture your ear at once and there are those that need "analytical" dissecting (and maybe in fact in-depth liner notes to make you aware of what to listen for ) to appreciate the differences at least passably completely. Not always an approach one fancies in listening, even if it is NOT just a case of "background muzak listening". Often it would be better if they placed the alternates separately from the master takes. Which HAS been done, particularly in the CD era, BTW. But of course then there are those who don't like THAT either.

Agreed (in MOST cases, not all). 2 takes one after another are OK (particularly if by an artist or band that DID vary their output) but 3 or 4 each time? There have a been a number of occasions where I prefered sticking with a "complete master takes only" reissue for this very reason. What I also find annoying at times is when they include studio chatter (of little relevance) on an occasional track (or more often) for no good reason. Showing off that they have been the first to dig up some original tapes? I cannot see the point either of leaving in the take announcements - as on a Hank Penny CD on the Westside label bought some time ago) where Syd Nathan is heard anouncing in a very formal voice "Master xxx take Y" on at least half a dozen tracks.Just this and nothing else. What for? As far as vinyl goes, i find that the CIRCLE label was one of the unnervingest. 4 different tunes to one entire LP with countless alternates and even false starts, breakdonws etc. per track (I am exaggerating only slightly). Picked them up occasionally anyway if VERY cheaply. Sometimes you end up with funny stuff anyway. I once bought a Sonny Boy Williamson II LP with Chess recordings that for some reason had a VERY lengthy nonstop version of one tune including false starts, studio chatter and an alternate (or so) and was clearly marked "Not suitable for airplay" on the cover. Small wonder ... Sonny Boy at one or the other point seemed to have become disgusted with the proceedings and can be clearly heard to speak his mind: "Li'l bitch .... motherfucker'" .... Mine is the German pressing and not that this would have mattered at the time over here (record bought in 1977 or so when heavier LP stuff was around - talk about "casual" listening ...) and regardless of why anyone would play the full "in-the-making" version of a Sonny Boy tune at all even on a late-night radio show but I can very well imagine the radio station manager of some US station throwing a fit when his DJ tried to spin this on the oh so "wholesome" all-family format radio program somewhere out there. Ha! HA!

I doubt that this was a matter of having a "thing going", at least as far as Vogue was concerned. No record execs snuggling up with each other in some back room. Blue Note also leased Vogue recordings for US release in their 5000 10" series (and French and UK Vogue, in turn, issued some BN 5000s with thier own cover artwork). So it rather looked like a matter of working out international distribution deals at a time when this apparently was cheaper/more efficient than importing/exporting. Just like Metronome releasing in the US through Prestige. And an "affair" (there you are again ...) that went both ways: Metronome distributed a LOT of Prestige recordings from the "classic" hard bop Prestige days in part of continental Europe (and in the UK Prestige was on Esquire at that time). For quite some time: And in other directions too: Metronome also distributed and license-pressed Atlantic, for example. When you come across Prestige and Atlantic EPs from the 50s and early 60s here they are very likely to be Metronome pressings.

The Coleman Hawkins "Papermoon" record also is one that was leased from VOGUE in France. So this should explain why it is not listed in Mercer label discographies. It wasn't recorded for Mercer, just reissued by Mercer. Available later on vinyl on Prestige 7824 ("Bean And The Boys"), so there's your Prestige connection again.

I was saying "some", not "you.". I agree that these and other acts are the flesh on the "major-name" and "big-star" bones of music from that period. Lem Davis is a relatively famliar name from other reissues but his Prestige sides seem to have been overlooked constantly. Considering the common denominator in the line-ups of these and other rare sessions, maybe someone might want to do a "Complete Teacho Wiltshire on Prestige" reissue for a starter?

If the discography in the (Japanese) "Prestige Book" (Jazz Critique 1996 No. 3) is anything to go by, then there are not really a huge number, but quite a few anyway (a couple dozen) in the singles series released by Prestige. The record listing (in numerical order) seems to list the line-up and recording dates for those 78s only that apparently had not been reissued in other forms later on by Prestige. Not quite correct, though - the Gene Ammons tracks had been riessued on the "The 78 era" twofer. And a couple of the others have been reissued on other labels since. The two Ralph Willis tracks (from Prestige 919 - 2nd series) are on Document DOCD-5257, Rudy Ferguson's "Cool Goofin'" (Prestige 798) is on the "It's Jamaica Jump Blues Time" compilation (Fantastic Voyage FVTD214). And the Zoot Sims session from Jan. 23,1953 was included on Blue Moon (yes, Fresh Sound ) BMCD-1040. And so on, probably, if one checked closer ... Plus, some of them fall into the jump blues/vocal group category and might be sneered at by some jazz purists.

Jokin'? I bought this new in the shop more than 20 years ago. along with a couple of other LPs done in the same style. Wasn't this distributed in the US? To me it was a must-buy for the very reason that it went back into the early 50s 10-inch era that was NOT what the USUAL Prestige reissues usually covered (i.e. excepting Wardell Gray and George Wallington et al., they usually amounted to all the hard boppers and their discographical roots - and ONWARDS, but not back, from there on). I'd welcome a more comprehensive reissue of the EARLY Prestiges too. The one below was a step in the right direction but was only a start, of course: https://www.discogs.com/de/Various-First-Sessions-194950/release/9156228 There ARE a few rarities and obscurities in the Prestige 78 and 10-inch discography but of course it would required close searches to see which in fact has not been available in an at least passably accessible maner elsewhere. Even most of the Joe Holiday recordings are around by now. And the reissuers would have to decide where to draw the line. No doubt the leased recordings (e.g. from Metronome) which made up a sizable portion of their 10-inchers would be out, I guess.

"Ansambl Solistov Tamaza Kurachvili": "Blus Dlja Budi" (i.e. Blues for Buddy?)

Not a musician but probably of almost the right age group. The Peanuts were big on TV here (and I did like watching them) at the time I got seriously into listening to jazz at 14 and buying records at 15 from 1975 onwards but the music to it was about as un-jazzy to me as it could be. More something like elevator music. And unconsciously this rubbed off even later. One of the very few jazz LPs I ever disposed again after having got hold of it (this one was part of a package deal) was Stan Getz's "Children Of The World". To start with, I was rather underwhelmed by the music (compared to the - much earlier - Getz I liked) but the - in my (then) view - silly and un-jazzy cover no doubt played some part in it too. (Being totally put off by a cover might in fact be a good subject for a topic all by itself - if it doesn't already exist)

Considering that the RCA LP (for those who'd care to take a look at the track listing) has three of the tracks from that session, this is exactly why I said that TTK now has "three quarters of The Complete Art Tatum on RCA". Point settled.

Great shirt, great slogan. Could well picture myself getting me one too. But unless you wear it exclusively at jazz concerts catering to the "more mature set", aren't you getting tired of explaining to whoever you socialize with who "this Stan Kenton is"? (or, at the very least, why you'd pick THAT dude ...)

I also have that LP. The liner notes do not give much in the way of session details. The Tatum tracks come from a 4-track session (that yielded 2 78s) that he recorded on Jan. 20,lm 1947. So you now have 3 quarters of "The Complete Art Tatum on RCA". The Mary Lou Wiliams tracks that you asked about in your other thread are from two sessions (8 tracks) from July 24 and October 7, 1946 (both with all-girl groups).

That "Are You Ready To Rock" video sounds treacherously like lip-synching to playback, It's sooo much like the 45 (which I've spun countless times for my own amusement ever since i received that record in 1975 or so. It still gets surprised reactions from the crowd - and amused looks of "here did he dig THAT up?" from those really in the know - when it's being spun at the occasional rockabilly/real r'n'r record hop)

I suppose you wanted to say that it's for people who "don't know that they like THAT style of jazz", i..e modern jazz (if you want to use a WIDE term and to split it into further sub-categories). Jazz is a stylistically very, very wide field and I know more than one who are quite into other styles of jazz but would RUN from KOB et al. Which is perfectly legitimate as it works the other way round too with those who will consider anything BEFORE KOB just "old hat" too. (NO, those who do not stand in awe before KOB are NOT missing any point of what "jazz" is all about, it's just that they explore other areas of jazz with more interest, just like those do who get all excited about jazz rock, avantgarde (whatever ...) etc. as the ultimate in jazz. Different tastes in a wide field that can accommodate them ALL) I see what you mean and understand. I bought my copy of KOB only about 6 months ago (not saying which reissue ) on a sudden impetus but had never really missed it during the 43 years of jazz record buying before. Had heard it here and there before but as this is one of those you could always get if you wanted to through the decades there never was any urge, particularly since my main and deeper focus is in several areas of jazz elsewhere (just like yours is, I presume).