clifford_thornton

Hey, Blakey isn't my favorite either - but I think it actually has to do with how repetitive the '60s Messengers records are IMO, not his playing. Put him with Herbie Nichols and it's like Cecil and Denis. Nor is DeJohnette, though his playing never made me 'not' buy something. I'm a big Han fan but I can see why his shtick annoys a lot of people. Still, his playing in the late '60s is less about that, and you can see what an excellent, hard-swinging and still very wiley drummer he could be. Those mid/late '60s Misha Quartet records give a good example, as does the New Acoustic Swing Duo and Marion Brown's Porto Novo, any of the early ICP records, etc.

Miles at the Plugged Nickel volume 2 (CBS Sony LP)

Yeah, especially since they both played with Haden and Motian in Montreal in '89!

I will PM you on that, for sure. It would be very interesting to get something like that going. Thanks!

I was once asked to do an AAJ/NY Encore on him, but then we could not find out how to track him down. It would help him to have some recognition, I would think - if he wants to play, then at least to allow that to be a possibility. Does anyone know when he and Joanne split up, or what happened with that?

Those are the ones... what a story, Relyles, thanks for that. So unfortunate... He did play as a sideman on some JCOA dates in the early '70s. I don't know why he was less active in recording later in the decade, though I think he did perform during that period. I seem to remember seeing some loft flyers with his name mentioned.

Hell, even the cuts from Cecil's Into the Hot session would work well - atonal R&B!

With that band, '84 sounds right to me. Bobby Battle isn't really around much these days, is he?

Peter Brotzmann once said that the freest thing he'd ever witnessed was Jackie Mc and Art Taylor in a duo at the American Center in Paris in the early '70s.

I've always liked the fact that it ends abruptly. I think that's the point - it makes one consider everything that led up to it maybe a little more carefully.

As Jazzbo said earlier, Baby Dodds is a raw dude. That thing on Folkways is just bad-fuckin-ass.

I'd agree on Ben Riley and Louis Hayes isn't my favorite... In 'free' music, Claude Delcloo can more often than not be very irritating.

Ah, that's right, "Turns" does have some extra stuff on it. Wish that had come out as an actual original Savoy... Gilmore is always nice to hear outside the Ra context; great on sessions by Andrew Hill and Pete La Roca. I like Closer a lot, though you're right in that the songs are too short. I think there was a 45 of Ida Lupino from that session - a real jukebox hit...

I got it at Borders for like $20 or something a few years ago... shouldn't be that hard to find. Again, I love Bley and his choice of material, but this album didn't do it for me. Listened to Turning Point this morning with my coffee, a great date originally recorded for Savoy (but not released until he put it out on IAI) with Gilmore, Peacock and Motian from '64.

The other day, I almost picked up the CD that started this thread. Almost.

Ah, I see. So this would be the perfect companion to someone who watched the Burns series.

No, I haven't, but now I want to. Love Denis Charles!!! Though he's not what I'd call a bop drummer - very much into his own shit that seems to ascribe to no particular school.

I still haven't done that, even while professing some curiosity on this board... Too much to listen to, and it never ends. Nevertheless, if someone has some Experimental Band rehearsal tapes they'd like to send me, I will send my heartfelt thanks...

Uhuru Na Umoja, America LP 6104, reissued by Universal on the Free America series. I believe there are other recordings unissued, but the session that yields this and the Noah Howard LP Space Dimension (not on the CD) are the only extant recordings I know of. Good shit.

Fucking hot. Wait, how would I know? I haven't left the AC comfort zone all day.

Is it just my eyes, or is it missing Ornette, Trane and Cecil? Figures...

Not entirely - he was a master at creating a group aesthetic, an orchestral vision whittled down to a small group. Shit, there's nothing wrong with having four Strayhorns in the mix, is there?

That's ridiculously high, even for a deep groove. Then again, the Marzette Watts on Savoy recently clocked $500 so I guess anything's possible.

Butler is awesome, and it has always sounded to me like, of the drummers most influenced by African music, he has really taken the approach to a more sonic level (apart, that is, from purely rhythmic). I'm actually blanking on it now, but there is a particularly interesting non-isometric solo on that Elmo Hope Trio record that really shows this to be the case - not to mention his work with Trane on Kulu Se Mama.

Well, he certainly does have small hands...