Dan Gould Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Not sure what the theme is, but I'm glad that BFT #13 is completed and ready to go. Not to shortchange Daniel's discussion, but we've never had 75% of the answers less than a day into the discussion! This one will probably wrap up in another ten days at most! I think there's a lesson here that while discs may be shipped to the far reaches of the globe extra early, discussion should be allowed to start sooner than it was on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 11) At first, I thought it was Joe Farrell on soprano, however as I listened I was transported back to a couple of early ?70s occasions at the Village Vanguard where I saw this drummer led group with a similar sounding saxophonist playing this piece. I have the LP in which this bright piece appears. It is Track #3 on this. Of course I should have recognized the drummer - this track is the bummer for me in this test! Very interesting to hear this out of conext, as the pianist's characteristics and influences show so clear here! # 13 keeps bugging me - still no clue! The Cuban percussion is used here like an Indian spice added to a dish otherwise cooked in a totally different tradition - too low in the mix, and not connected to the others. The conga drummer tries to interact but is bashed down by the drummer. The players obviously dig the Cuban rhtyhm but play on top of it just like they would have in any other piece. Still curious who it is, the trumpet player is very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchmanx Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Here' another praise for Daniel. Lot of good music but I am eager to learn names for two tracks - 3rd and 8th. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Here' another praise for Daniel. Lot of good music but I am eager to learn names for two tracks - 3rd and 8th. Andrew 3 was this one (track 2) http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=Ahtk9ikvhbb39 8 was this one (track 8) http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=A9zeq97bjkrst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloe Omoe Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Re #14, I think it's track 6 from this album Here's That Rainy Day Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooter Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 (edited) Now I know where I heard #10 - Morning Star. It's on the Stan Getz Gold, or Live at Montmartre Vol 1, album - the only version I've got. According to AMG the composer was someone called "Grand" (Michel le?) but the album shows "Roger Grant". Again it's the only tune I have written by him as far as I know. AMG shows him as "rock" genre and the Joe Hall album has a bass player called Roger Brant and an engineer called Roger Grant. Do engineers write tunes? Edited June 8, 2004 by tooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloe Omoe Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Now I know where I heard #10 - Morning Star. It's on the Stan Getz Gold, or Live at Montmartre Vol 1, album - the only version I've got. According to AMG the composer was someone called "Grand" (Michel le?) but the album shows "Roger Grant". Again it's the only tune I have written by him as far as I know. AMG shows him as "rock" genre and the Joe Hall album has a bass player called Roger Brant and an engineer called Roger Grant. Do engineers write tunes? As far as I know, the composer of Morning Star is Rodgers Grant, who used to play piano in Mongo Santamaria's band, taking also part in Hubert Laws' "Flute-by-Laws", an early Atlantic date by the flute player. Luca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 (edited) 1: This is the kind of track that tends to get used as a source for electronic cut ups & funnily enough my first reaction to hearing the vinyl crackle was to assume that this confirmed rather than disconfirmed this guess (given how vinyl noise is now often used as deliberate ingredient in the mix). But nope, I’m an idiot, this is a genuine bigband arrangement of “Manteca” presumably from the 1960s (surely no other decade could have possibly been responsible for this combo of hyperreal Latin percussion, trumpets & of all things an organ?). No idea who it is. 2: This is interesting because while it’s got Tatumesque touches & it’s a tune Tatum likes (“Have You Met Ms Jones”) it’s clearly not AT, because this guy’s got a beautifully hesitant sense of swing that’s all his own. Bop traces too in there, plus a touch of Debussy's "Reverie". I’ve never heard an early solo performance by Hank Jones, so I’ll guess that. Wrongly, I'm sure. 3: The head has a West Coastish feel like a Gerry Mulligan chart. But then it sounds like Clifford Brown, & the sax sounds like Land sure enough. But I’m really puzzled, as this is definitely NOT Max Roach on drums. Frank Butler? Is this a Brown tune (the key changes with each chorus make me think so)? Oh, hang on.... is this a Curtis Counce album? Then it’d be Land, yep, &, um, Jack Sheldon, Carl Perkins, Counce, Butler. Nice ending with a lift from “Con Alma”. 4: opening made me think he was going to play “Speak Low”. Ugh, why can’t I place this tune? It’s terribly familiar. Has this person put together two different tunes (“Speak Low” & something else?). Dazzling, really original piano, really doing something different with the Bill Evans legacy. The drums have a Paul Motianish feeling. Crowd noise at the end. Is this that 1960s Denny Zeitlin album with Jerry Granelli on it? 5: Nice chart, no idea who it is. A muted but piquant contrast between the fragile, restrained trumpet & the lushness of the piano....hm, is it McCoy, which was my first thought? It’s just not dense enough, & there’s a few phrases which couldn’t be McCoy. Harold Mabern maybe? Gorgeous stuff. 6: Oh god, what’s the name of this tune? Hm, weird – it starts off all Oscar Petersonish & then it segues to a featherlight bit, then cooled-out swing. The solo still’s got a lot of Oscar to it, but it’s got a trebly delicacy I don’t associate with him at all, & he doesn’t slam home the left-hand chords like Oscar does. Jeez, so much about this track says “Oscar” & yet I really hesitate to say it’s him. If it is, it’s so much more inventive in the arrangement & subtle in the playing than I’ve usually heard from him. 7: Hm, the tenor’s terribly familiar, that cry. Racking my brains: who is it? Piano gives me no clues. The track’s too short really for me – nice but it could have been more. 8: Well no-one will give me a prize for i.d.ing the tune. Jeez, the piano’s so understated it’s barely there! Not Herbie, not sure who it is. I begin to wonder if it’s the original rhythm section though – Carter & Williams. Aha, the pianist is starting to wake from his trance as we near the 5 minute mark...! A pretty track but doesn’t really grab me strongly – a bit too sedate. Nice inside-the-piano ending. 9: This group sounds very familiar for some reason, esp the Milesish trumpeter. I’m tempted to say Dave Holland for the bassist yet, hm, there’s something that makes me back off on that – just not inventive enough for Dave. Maybe Liebman on soprano....nah, it’s not quite inventive enough to be Liebman either. I’m back to square one. This kind of peters out rather than ends properly. I liked this didn’t love it. 10: Nice flute tone. Hm, Tabackin with Akiyoshi? I don’t know her charts well (I have a few LPs but haven’t listened to them for a while). But, jeez, I didn’t think she ever recorded with electric piano & hang on, once the solo starts it’s clear it isn’t her on it, so I’m back in the dark again. Truthfully I could have used more from the rest of the band rather than just the electric keyboard. I’m less happy with the flute solo when it gets kinda electronicky (some FX on it?). OK, not great. 11: nice opening. The tune’s kinda Wayne Shorterish. I should probably recognize this pianist. Aha, now I’m SURE this is Liebman, tell me I got it right this time. Strange chart – is the extra soprano in the ensemble overdubbed or were there really two soprano players present? 12: yikes! quite the change of mood! Then a pause, & then a big band chart in 6 which has some of the same pearly serenity of several other big-band tracks on this compilation, & the piano has a calm stasis near the start that’s reminiscent of #8, so I begin to sense some threads running through the compilations. Very pretty stuff, a little more conventional that I’d expected from the opening. I was wondering how they’d ever get back to the singer but the transition is very deftly managed. 13: nice tune & arrangement of what initially sounds like a stretched-out blues & then turns out not to be. Tenor’s OK, hm: a little too pushy & tough-guy in spots for me, or maybe I’m trying to say I find him too obvious (hitting those false notes like hot buttons). The trumpeter’s OK, a nice cooling off, though again it doesn’t really grab me. More Tynerish piano, another running theme on this compilation (though again I don’t think this is McCoy), but not really with enough flavour to grab my ear. Hm, this track disappoints me: the opening made me expect something a little more interesting. Still, it’s good. 14: Before posting I accidentally caught a glimpse of someone nailing this as Getz, but I think I’d have said Getz anyway. There’s a gorgeous version on Nobody But Me which is much better than this but this is still nice, though the big-band-bossa arrangement adds unnecessary clutter. Pretty. (Footnote: actually I see the glance I caught was wrong & it ain't Getz on alto. Never mind, I was trying not to peek...) 15: Ha! Just one of those things indeed! Is the false start “real” or just part of the joke? I guess it is a real false start, but this sounds like something that would happen if Jimmy Rowles participated in Cobra! A nice compilation, I didn't dislike any of the tracks & really liked several of them. This is closer to heartland jazz than many of the BFTs I've participated in, which is nice for a change, though sometimes I like to be pushed outside my comfort zone too. Edited June 8, 2004 by Nate Dorward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 # 1 Knew this tune and the version right away, I have this LP, it is the first track. (AMG link) I don't have that LP. I thought it might be that album because of the recognizable (and excellent) arranging but the organ player struck me as being pretty weak and I have heard much better from him elsewhere. How is the rest of the record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooter Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Now I know where I heard #10 - Morning Star. It's on the Stan Getz Gold, or Live at Montmartre Vol 1, album - the only version I've got. According to AMG the composer was someone called "Grand" (Michel le?) but the album shows "Roger Grant". Again it's the only tune I have written by him as far as I know. AMG shows him as "rock" genre and the Joe Hall album has a bass player called Roger Brant and an engineer called Roger Grant. Do engineers write tunes? As far as I know, the composer of Morning Star is Rodgers Grant, who used to play piano in Mongo Santamaria's band, taking also part in Hubert Laws' "Flute-by-Laws", an early Atlantic date by the flute player. Luca Thank you, Luca. I don't like these little mysteries to go unsolved and, despite your caution, your answer sounds convincing. Information to be stored away and resurrected at some appropriate time one day, I hope! There must be millions of these inaccuracies at AMG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Hm, one of my more gaffe-filled BFTs I see--particularly annoying to have failed to i.d. the tunes of "Poinciana" & "Dark Eyes", & to have correctly guessed the 3rd track then have talked myself out of it. Bleah. At least I correctly got the 2nd track (& without knowing the album in question). The most interesting thing for me is the O.P. track, which is far better than most of the stuff of his I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 The most interesting thing for me is the O.P. track, which is far better than most of the stuff of his I've heard. I'll second that as I talked myself out of it being O.P. because I thought there was more happening in this piece than I'm used to hearing from him. Somebody else had guessed Phineas Newborn which I thought was pretty good because Phineas in the short time he was in his prime had all the facility of O.P. but had a lot more going on, IMO. I guess I have to give credit where it's due however, 'cause it is O.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted June 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Not to shortchange Daniel's discussion, but we've never had 75% of the answers less than a day into the discussion! This one will probably wrap up in another ten days at most! I think there's a lesson here that while discs may be shipped to the far reaches of the globe extra early, discussion should be allowed to start sooner than it was on this one. If anything, the reason probably would be too "obvious" material and too knowledgeable participants. From what I can understand Mike nailed down 50% within 24 hrs of receiving the disc... Pperhaps I was a bit too cautious, though. But still, up to two days before the discussions began only three participants had acknowledged the reception of their discs. Anyway, there are still a few more to go. Some good guesses, some plain wrong. Especially fun to see the speculation around track #15... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re #14, I think it's track 6 from this album Here's That Rainy Day Luca The name of that saxist was in my finger this afternoon, and I ain't got nothin' to prove it .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Great BFT Dan!! It is getting a lot of play in my house & car!! thanks for taking the time to put it together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 From what I can understand Mike nailed down 50% within 24 hrs of receiving the disc... Perhaps I was a bit too cautious, though. But still, up to two days before the discussions began only three participants had acknowledged the reception of their discs. Anyway, there are still a few more to go. Some good guesses, some plain wrong. Especially fun to see the speculation around track #15... Oh no - I got 5 out of 15 tracks! Only 33,3 % .... in my initial post. Or am I right on some of my assumptions? I agree the level is very high here, but nevertheless the choices are great, and you have stumped me and everybody else with some tunes here! Sometimes we need a "fast" BFT like this to keep us goin' Randy Hersom's BFT was "fast" and was great fun to do! Nice to read guesses hitting and then missing - myself included. Regarding track 15: That was jest, IMHO, by the musicians involved ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 ... within 24 hrs of receiving the disc... Well, I happened to have a day off after a trip to Amsterdam for a gig, and time to listen ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Lightning Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 First of all, you have no idea how difficult it was for me to post this without first going thru your posts! Some of the tracks here were SO familiar, I just KNEW I have them in my collection. I gave this BFT several spins to get some of the uncertainties away. Secondly, thanks Daniel for a very very enjoyable BFT!!! OK, here I go: 1. Manteca. No idea who's the Band. 2. Have you Met Miss Jones. At first I was thinking Tatum, because of a certain Tatumesque touch, but it's not him. I think the player thought of Tatum while playing. Small wonder, since it was favorite of Tatum. The touch is gentle, too gentle for Tatum. Now I'm thinking Hank Jones. No idea from what CD. I really Love this track I need to get the CD! 3. First I recognized Brownie, then Roach. A great tune, it's #2 from This session 4. Poinciana. Nice playing. I guess Jamal is too obvious, so no idea. 5. I LOVE Blue Mitchell!! Not sure where the track's from, but I have it for sure. Nice charts. 6. This could be the Start... Innitially I thought it was OP, but his left hand is different. A very nice track. 7. Too short. Love Tenor-Bone frontline, but I don't know who's the combo. Jazz Crusaders maybe? Just a guest becasue of the instrumentation. 8. Maiden Voyage. I was bored during the track, but not as much as the pianist. Did he take Valium before recording it??? 9. If I was the leader I would have sacked the Soprano player. The trumpeter is a bit too Miles'ish for me (unless it's Miles ). An OK track. 10. Nice Flute tone. Have nothing else to say 'bout it. Very average. 11. Is it 2 Sopranos? I think I hear Liebman. Is it an Elvin Jones session? I really like this track. I'm sure will think otherwise, though. 12. I Cover the Waterfront. Sounds like a Pop/Rock singer trying to do a Jazz song. Didn't do nothing for me. 13. Woody Shaw? The track takes off nicely enough, but sometimes along the way it trails off. I wish they'd done another take! 14. Bud Shank! Love the track!! Need to get this CD! 15. Ochicorniya (Dark Eyes). Hillarious! OK - now I can finally read all your posts guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjobbe Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 again a little bit late in putting my thoughts in here, so in general I enjoyed that disc pretty much Daniel ! #1 sounds like a Gillespie one... no clue who's playing but it reminds me of some Paquito D'rivera one heard recently #2 no clue although I believe I know the tune #3 ... #4 Poinciana.... check my Jamal "Digital Works" but thtis one sounds a little bit older .... #5 I like it .. but no clue #6 thought of big Oscar P. .... #7 sounded like some Pop tune with a Chicago like Brass section and some good swinging Jazz in the middle .. will have a another look at that later #8 Maiden Voyage.... #9 
... need to have a second look at #11 not mine... #12 initially I though of Rickie Lee Jones finally doing real Jazz and playing like Diana Krall accompanied by a Frank Foster/Count Basie Bigband in the middle...lt sounded great.. a must have #13,#14 need to check again #15... funny but no clue Cheers, Tjobbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted June 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Re #14, I think it's track 6 from this album Here's That Rainy Day Luca The name of that saxist was in my finger this afternoon, and I ain't got nothin' to prove it .... ...but I have! Good work E.O.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Johnson Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 (edited) Are we sure track 5 is the fifth cut on this album? Isn't it the third cut on this album? Everyone seems to be recognizing the trumpet soloist, though, so I could be off base--just thought it sounded like there were more players. (edited to make links work) Edited June 9, 2004 by Peter Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Are we sure track 5 is the fifth cut on this album? Isn't it the third cut on this album? Everyone seems to be recognizing the trumpet soloist, though, so I could be off base--just thought it sounded like there were more players. (edited to make links work) I have the BN LP and checked. It IS the fifth track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Are we sure track 5 is the fifth cut on this album? Yes I checked against the Mosaic edition of the album! If there's anothe trumpet in the horn section it plays only written parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 brownie, you beat me by the minute! As for the track # 1 LP I'll give it a spin this evening and tell ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Johnson Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Are we sure track 5 is the fifth cut on this album? Isn't it the third cut on this album? Everyone seems to be recognizing the trumpet soloist, though, so I could be off base--just thought it sounded like there were more players. (edited to make links work) I have the BN LP and checked. It IS the fifth track! Damn!!! Just when I thought I was really on to something...for the first time in this series of tests!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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