DrJ Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I have been eyeing both Vols 1 and 2 for some time, but holding off given that the remastering is now about 14 years old. Now I got an e-mail from BN saying that Vol 2 is going out of print. I passed on Ornette's BNs with Dewey Redman that went OOP recently with the strong feeling BN must be planning remastered versions soon. I suspect the same will probably happen with THREE BLIND MICE. But no way to be sure. What to do, what to do...anyone out there privvy to BN plans on these? And how's the sound quality on the THREE BLIND MICE CDs (I see Malcom Addey's name so probably it sounds as good as it could have for 1990)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I have absolutely no complaints about the sound and nothing but raves for the material. The version of Mosaic alone is worth it. One of the absolute finest examples of the intensity of Blakey. He never misses the form and is playing that mambo figure at 330 bpm - indestructible indeed! You also get the earliest recordings of that sextet with Freddie and Cedar, from the Village Gate, two tunes, one of which (The Promised Land) was not recorded by the band elsewhere. Miss it and you'll regret it. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I'm just wondering if it's going OOP now, just so they can re-release it as an RVG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I would not count on them necessarily being slated for RVG remastering. From what I have seen, the ones that get 'RVGed' are never actually announced as going OOP -the RVG is announced, and the old version quietly is phased out. The ones that are announced as going OOP usually do not resurface. Maybe someone can correct me, but I do not recall an instance of something being announced as going OOP and then resurfacing as an RVG shortly thereafter. I have yet to see a 'looking for' for one of the old masterings, but one day it will happen, when Rudy really screws up a session that was available previously in a perfectly acceptable mastering. So far, the RVGs that seem to have been panned are only titles that were not previously available in the U.S. (like Fickle Sonance). Blue Note, for reasons of national security which they cannot discuss due to the patriot act, remains extremely mysterious as to their exact reasons for pulling titles. A cut-off figure of 500 in sales in a given year has been suggested, but that would just be an incredibly incompetent way of interpreting marketing results, and I cannot believe anyone at EMI, a corporation with such a glorious track record, could be so stupid. Getting them to send an e-mail with going OOP lists was already like pulling teeth, and these e-mails are really for those in the know. The general casual jazz-buying public (i.e., those who are not rabid collectors such as ourselves) has no idea what's going on. I remember one jazz DJ lamenting that he could not find a certain Horace Silver title. I remember thinking to myself 'that's one they pulled', but he had no way of knowing that. And then they complain of not getting airplay. This issue has annoyed me since the mid-90s, when I started stocking up on Blue Notes and noticing a lot of them had disappeared. I actually called Blue Note to complain that it would have been nice to have been notified. Amazingly, the person I spoke to (didn't get a name, sorry) actually consulted a list of titles that WOULD NEVER BE OUT ON CD (I was asking about Etcetera, which was still not on CD at the time - of course, it was not on this list). I wonder what this list was, and how many titles from this list have been out since - I wish I had been more BN-savvy back then (I should ask Cuscuna about this - I bet he won't have heard of this list). A lot of old pre-RVG versions and other OOPs wind up at daedalusbooks.com. It's not on their site, but I'm pretty sure the warehouse store in Columbia, MD still had a copy or two of Love Call last time I was there (and it would be like $7 or $8). In short, get Three Blind Mice - there's no reason to think it will be available again anytime soon (unless it's announced shortly on the RVG lists). With Blue Note, it's just not worth the gamble. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Maybe someone can correct me, but I do not recall an instance of something being announced as going OOP and then resurfacing as an RVG shortly thereafter. wasn't this the case with "Search for the New Land" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 The Three Blind Mice are not original Blue Note titles, if memory serves me right. So I'd not bet anything on these being reissued in the RVG series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Tony, you love this sextet, it's your favorite Blakey unit, right? The sound is fine, it's not MudMaster. will sound more than fine on your new system. GET VOLUME TWO! Bertrand, I wouldn't be surprised if that list you mention CAME from Michael! I can understand being frustrated with the policies of giant corporations, but they have different concerns than the jazz collector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 The Three Blind Mice are not original Blue Note titles, if memory serves me right. So I'd not bet anything on these being reissued in the RVG series. Absolutely correct. The original LPs were issued on United Artists, then reissued by Sonny Lester on Solid State. I have Vol 1 on a Solid State LP. Must get Vol 2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 The Three Blind Mice are not original Blue Note titles, if memory serves me right. So I'd not bet anything on these being reissued in the RVG series. Absolutely correct. The original LPs were issued on United Artists, then reissued by Sonny Lester on Solid State. I have Vol 1 on a Solid State LP. Must get Vol 2... You better get them both! I think Vol. 1 has stuff not on LP (unless maybe on that live messengers 2LP set that also had some 1953 tracks with Brownie - not sure). Check with AMG for the tracklist, they mention the volumes being expanded for the CD reissue. ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Indeed there are additional tracks on the Vol 1 CD. Normally I don't bother with the CDs if there's a vinyl alternative but in this instance (and for this particular Blakey lineup) I'll seek them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Indeed there are additional tracks on the Vol 1 CD. Normally I don't bother with the CDs if there's a vinyl alternative but in this instance (and for this particular Blakey lineup) I'll seek them out. you certainly won't regret it! These two discs make a very nice live-counterpart to the studio albums (Free for All, Buhaina and Mosaic) that unit recorded! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi ubu - yes, what I have on the LP sounds just great. In fact, with Sonny Lester's production quality being what it was/is ( ), consider it done that I will seek out these two titles this very weekend. Blakey demands nothing less ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hi ubu - yes, what I have on the LP sounds just great. In fact, with Sonny Lester's production quality being what it was/is ( ), consider it done that I will seek out these two titles this very weekend. Blakey demands nothing less ! A wise decision! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I had these when they came out on CD, somehow didn't warm to them and let them go, many years later saw one of them used and quickly realized the error of my ways (I'd thought they were already OOP though). So I guess I better get the other one, pronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 And speaking of these, "should I spring?" threads ... has the consensus ever been "save your money, its not really that good"??? I mean, even on something as middling as Hank's Reach Out, we're still fanatical enough that most people say, "go for it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) Dan Gould Posted on Jul 9 2004, 08:13 AM Â And speaking of these, "should I spring?" threads ... has the consensus ever been "save your money, its not really that good"??? Of COURSE not! And that's exactly why we make these posts. As Mr. Rogers might have said, "Can you say 'enablers' children? I knew you could! Thanks for the input guys, I will be taking the plunge. One other point - King Ubu mentioned that since THREE BLIND MICE was not an original BN, it probably wouldn't be RVG'd. I don't know that this is true. Remember all the following "non-original BNs" have been out in RVG formats in Japan and/or the US: Clifford Brown - JAZZ IMMORTAL (Pacific Jazz) Miles Davis - BIRTH OF THE COOL (Capitol) Doug Watkins - WATKINS AT LARGE (Japan only, originally on Transition) There are probably others I'm forgetting too. Edited July 9, 2004 by DrJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) Yes, there was a special RVG series in Japan that included Cannonball Adderley's "Mercy, Mercy" (sensation JRVG!), Mal Waldron's "Left Alone" (haven't heard it), the Taylor-Trane, and there have been Toshiba SuperBit cds that have had RVG remasterings such as "Atomic Basie" and "Byrd's Eye View" and a few others. However I don't think that because this volume is going out of print that RVGs are scheduled, but that's just guesswork! Edited July 9, 2004 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 One other point - King Ubu mentioned that since THREE BLIND MICE was not an original BN, it probably wouldn't be RVG'd. I don't know that this is true. Remember all the following "non-original BNs" have been out in RVG formats in Japan and/or the US: Clifford Brown - JAZZ IMMORTAL (Pacific Jazz) Miles Davis - BIRTH OF THE COOL (Capitol) Doug Watkins - WATKINS AT LARGE (Japan only, originally on Transition) There are probably others I'm forgetting too. I know there are some non Blue Note RVGs, but they're so few so far that I would not wait and pray... and these discs always sounded fine to my (non-audiophile) ears. ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Thanks for chiming in with those Lon, I knew there were some others. Yeah, I think you're right too - there is no way to know for sure, and it could take a while for RVGs to surface even if they ultimately do. So I'm sold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 The Three Blind Mice are not original Blue Note titles, if memory serves me right. So I'd not bet anything on these being reissued in the RVG series. Absolutely correct. The original LPs were issued on United Artists, then reissued by Sonny Lester on Solid State. I have Vol 1 on a Solid State LP. Must get Vol 2... Partially correct. The original TBM album (6 tunes) was origianally a UA date produced by Alan Douglas, and was indeed reissued in original form on Solid State, which is how I have it. But there was no Volume 2. All the additional material was first issued on "that live messengers 2LP set that also had some 1953 tracks with Brownie" that ubu mentions (LIVE MESSENGERS, from 1978), which is how I have it. Played that sucker to death when it first came out, mostly to hear Wayne on "The Promised Land". The music's great, and the old LPs sound just fine, so I'd guess that the CDs sound incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Heck, I actually have a copy of that 'Live Messengers' twofer gathering dust on one of my shelves. Looks like I'm probably well covered with this material on vinyl. Thanks for the reminder ! Once again, the 'Blue Note Reissue Series' saves the day.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 The 'Blue Note Reissue Series' ROCKED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 (edited) Affirmative ! I gave this set a spin last night and it didn't disappoint. Great sound and 3 sides of the set are from these sessions (with 4th side for the Brownie material, as you pointed out JS), so in combination with the Solid State LP looks like I've got most of it. How did I overlook this one? Edited July 10, 2004 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 3 sides of the set are from these sessions.... so in combination with the Solid State LP looks like I've got most of it. I think you might have ALL of it! If not, somebody please tell me ASAP so I can buy the CDs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Here's the track lineup on the LPs just in case anyone is able to check on the CDs.. 'Three Blind Mice' on Solid State 18033 (Liberty pressing, 1968) 'Plexus' 'Up Jumped Spring' 'When Lights Are Low' 'Three Blind Mice' 'Blue Moon' 'That Old Feeling' 'Live Messengers' on 'Blue Note Jazz Classic' series (1978) 'The Promised Land' 'Arabia' 'Its Only A Paper Moon' 'Mosaic' 'Ping Pong' 'Up Jumped Spring' (Alternate) :rsmile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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