marshall allen in "the wire"

[Guest akanalog]

i think it was a recent issue of this magazine "the wire" but they have something like the old blindfold test in downbeat where they play a musician some material and have them comment. well this issue i saw had marshall allen of sun ra fame and it was the worst feature i have ever read. the man did not know any of the music that was played for him and redirected comments about any of the music back to sun ra like he was a brainwashed member of a cult. i mean sometimes the interviewer wanted allen to relate his ra experiences, but there was just really no insight or humor in this feature. i have never read this magazine before but did almost enjoy the numerous articles on the idea of the "riff" in this same issue.

[brownie]

That was in the December 2004 issue. Marshall Allen does appear like he has a Sun Ra obsession.

Loved the part when he is being played 'Stardust' by Charlie Parker. Does not recognize Bird, tries a guess (Johnny Hodges?) then takes off - once more - on Sun Ra and the sound Sun Ra wanted from the Arkestra.

Not one word on the Charlie Parker side...

[couw]

haven't read the Zappa book.

I have. Pretty nice it is too. A very personal take on things and the guy seems to like to spin his tales to where it gets real thin and then yank some on it. I like that. He isn't too bothered by trying to be objective, which is a wise decision as it makes for a far better story.

[relyles]

now ackee-- for unbearable reading, try ANY issue of "signal to noise." i ALWAYS regret buying that damn thing, no matter how well intended it is. what passes for "writing" & "criticism" there is 95+% ridiculous (which makes it no different than the aboveground U.S. press: wow, thanks.)

Regardless of the quality of the critisicm (which I make no comment on), STG does contain useful information about artists and recordings that are not otherwise normally covered by the more mainstream jazz publications. For example, the most recent issue contains a full article on the Ellery Eskelin, Andrea Parkins and Jim Black trio. I think Eskelin's playing is probably respected by most, but other than review, how often has he been covered in "Down Beat" or Jazz Times?". I have also had some intereactions with a couple of people who have written reviews for the magzaine and consider them genuinely knowledgeable about the things they write.

It is by no means a perfect magazine, but flaws and all I think it is needed - especially for fans of the music it covers.

[brownie]

yo, Brownie-- have you read the GOOFY & then some Derek Bailey book by Ben Watson? i'm perhaps in the minority but i LIKE the goddamm thing w/o any knowledge of what grudges or personal biases the author may have. he cops to his 'tude a few times also, which i dig, & his voice is way strong enough to carry his argument. Bailey is, of course, one of the best of ALL possible musical subjects so that helps too. i've given up educating the squares here but yr a gentleman & a scholar, i think you'd appreciate this, unless you already know Waston & hate him-- apparently some people do but i'm ig'nant about why & haven't read the Zappa book.

regards,

clementine redacteur

(back from the shadows but not for long)

Clem, I lose my gentleman and scholar status Back to square one!

I have not read any of Watson's books. And I have trouble understanding the Bailey language. The only Bailey album I have really liked is the Ballads one out on Tzadik. Got last week the 'Music and Dance' album that was released by Revenant (a label I have a lot of respect for). Got bored with the stuff. Give me Barry Galbraith any time!

Now Sun Ra is a different matter. Never had trouble getting into that music. Some of my best live performances memories are several evenings at Slug's - back in 1967 - when the Arkestra (the one with Marshall Allen, John Gilmore, Pat Patrick...) was spitting fire!

Still I find it odd that Marshall Allen has trouble identifying Bird! And fails to discuss his music!

[Rooster_Ties]

haven't read the Zappa book.

I have. Pretty nice it is too. A very personal take on things and the guy seems to like to spin his tales to where it gets real thin and then yank some on it. I like that. He isn't too bothered by trying to be objective, which is a wise decision as it makes for a far better story.

Been a while since I've read it, but I remember the Zappa book being a good read as well. Everything couw just described, but a very interesting book - especially for those already deep into Zappa.

[Nate Dorward]

Actually most Zappa nuts seem to hate it, is my impression.

There's an intelligent pan of Ben's Bailey book by Francesco Martinelli in the current Coda.

[brownie]

b-- try Cecil & Derek on FMP, or perhaps on "Ballads" (!!) on Tzadik. i've dug Bailey for at least 10 years but i'd be jivin' if i said i LOVED him previously, except in the abtract for a great artist. in many ways, it's very difficult music but Watson's a funny guy & i think he makes a # of very persuasive intellectual, philosophical arguments & even if in the end, we'd rather, uh... who's the dude on that John Lewis record? you know the one I mean, Bailey is a verrrrrry weird, extremely intelligent, audacious guy-- just a few reasons Cecil digs him I reckon. seeing Derek play is also an amazing experience, I recommend a new dvd of DB playing an in-store at the old Downtown Music Gallery location, tho' the local yokels there aren't an esp. pretty bunch, you do get to briefly see (& the dvd is dedicated to) indefatigible nyc elders, Stephanie & Irving Stone (rip). oh you know what-- the Braxton & Bailey set on Emanen...

in any case, the book is more than strong enough to engage you even if the music often clatters, buzzes & ploinks in a not-favorite way. read the complete "Wire" listening w/DB in the appendix if you want a quick fix w/a heavy dose of Derek's wit.

yrs,

cr

Clem, I already mentioned I have - and liked - the Tzadik 'Ballads'. I forgot to mention the FMP album with Cecil Taylor. Bailey was indeed a strong match to CT.

I have never seen Bailey play live and I understand his appearances are scarce nowadays. The interview in The Wire made a good read! Interesting character!

Thanks for the advices. I am learning every day...

[Nate Dorward]

THe duo with Taylor is actually kinda untypical. I still like Bailey's solo albums best--Drop Me off at 96th & Lace from the 1980s are both very good.

[David Ayers]

Derek wrote a book called Improvisation, which is essentially a survey of the role of improv. in different types of music. Worthwhile, for those who are interested and (I think) back in print.

In fact, here it is.

Edited January 13, 2005 by David Ayers

[brownie]

Monsieur B.-- next time yr in NYC, hit Downtown & get that dvd, it's not expensive. if nothing else, a man of yr curiousity & encyclopaedic erudition (you could have been in "Bouvard et Pecuchet," my pomme! oops, i mean my homme (tho' i'll call you mon pomme if you think it's cute) will find it VERY instructive to watch Derek do his thing, naked (cuz he wants to). Seeing him chord & pick like that, up close, really brings home the guy's monster technique-- which is based upon, then diverges from, a very highly developed trad technique.

Went to Downtown when I was in town couple of months ago. Don't think the Bailey DVD was being sold then. Did not see it. Will watch for it. But not sure I am that hot to see him play in the flesh

And s'il vous plait no 'mon pomme'... or mon homme either. Will settle for mon ami -_-

Bon voyage!

[7/4]

Don't think the Bailey DVD was being sold then.

It just came out.

[Rooster_Ties]

** IMPORTANT ZAPPA SIDENOTE: DO YOU GUYS KNOW THE CD OF ZAPPA COMPOSITIONS BY A BAROQUE ENSEMBLE?! IT'S SUPPOSEDLY great!! ALSO. on Northern Lights i'm think-- an imprint of one of my very fave classical labels, BIS... i'm dying to hear it now. okie doke, here's info--

Ensemble Ambrosius Plays Zappa

Got it, and can't say enough good things about it.

EDIT: Here are a couple mp3's of the group, performing two Zappa tunes and two originals. >>>clickie linkie thingie<<<

Edited January 13, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Nate Dorward]

You will find the piece (by Dan Warburton) on the Bailey/Watson book also available at

http://www.paristransatlantic.com/magazine...09sep_text.html

[AllenLowe]

Now that Clementine's on the road it might be safe to wade in here and take myself more and less seriously - I like Signals to Noise, and coinsider it to be the best contemporary jazz mag - sure, not everybody who writes for it knows a lot, but they try and there's a lot of good info in it - HOWEVER - that review of the Bailey book was a SERIOUS breach of journalistic ethics - note that the writer points out, toward the end of the review, that he is criticized by the author of the Bailey book, in the Bailey book - this should have disqualified him immediately as a reviewer of said book -

[Nate Dorward]

If you ruled out everyone who's been reviewed negatively by or had bad dealings with Ben, I suspect you'd have a hard time finding anyone to review him. I dunno, I kinda like Ben but seem to be in a minority.

That said, yes, there's obvious personal animus there in Dan's review.

[AllenLowe]

that may be true, but it's really an absolute journalistic no-no about reviewing someone's book in that case -

[Lazaro Vega]

Speaking of Marshall Alllen, looking forward to presenting he and Henry Grimes live on the radio Tuesday, March 8th at 10 p.m. on Blue Lake Public Radio, WBLV FM 90.3 and WBLU FM 88.9. The duo will be on tour then. Check your local listenings! (Acually, I'll post something in the live music section). Hoping to get Marshall to play "Over The Rainbow."

[clifford_thornton]

I dunno, I interviewed Marshall for AAJ and he was really lucid and had a lot of his own things to say, not necessarily Ra-related. I mean really, you have to assume that the BF-test is a little flawed and loaded towards certain answers.

Also, the Ellington-Ra connection would make me think that Jeep is more on the forefront of his brain, and Bird and Jeep don't always sound that dissimilar - especially on ballads. And especially when you consider recording sources, which can mar distinctions.