Here Is Phineas; The Piano Artistry of....

[wolff]

Phineas Newborn, Jr. Atlantic 1235, 1956(mono)-1958 (stereo).

Have a very interesting(to me) reissue and wanted to confirm that this was recorded in Hackensack by RVG.

Thanks

Edited May 30, 2005 by wolff

[Morganized]

Wolff,

I recently picked this one up as well. What do you think? AMG rates it the one to buy. Do not know if I agree with that assesment. I have number of Phineas' sessions. He is so good I sometimes think he is too good!!

Curious about RVG as well.

[wolff]

It's a good one. I'd hate to choose between this one and a couple of his Contemporary titles.

[brownie]

My copy (Atlantic Warner Japan reissue) says RVG was the recording engineer. That's all.

Except my copy has a large autograph from the drummer on the date that reads 'Amitiés Toujours, Kenny Clarke'.

Love that disc!

[AllenLowe]

well, he's no Oscar Peterson... thank goodness. Brilliant pianist, if prone to glibness. I like his later albums much better, when he settled in.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I know of another Atlantic album recorded at Van Gelder's - Lee Konitz: Inside Hi-Fi, from September 26 & October 16, 1956.

Mike

[MartyJazz]

well, he's no Oscar Peterson... thank goodness. Brilliant pianist, if prone to glibness. I like his later albums much better, when he settled in.

←

I always felt that Newborn had all the facility of O.P. but cooked a lot more. A shame that mental problems resulted in a much too shortened career and, ultimately, life span.

[Jazz Kat]

Can someone tell me a Phineas album from circa 1973, with Elvin Jones on drums? I believe the first song was Harlem Blues....?

[wolff]

Can someone tell me a Phineas album from circa 1973, with Elvin Jones on drums? I believe the first song was Harlem Blues....?

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How about the album "Harlem Blues" on Contemporary(S 7634) ?

[JSngry]

Phineas Newborn, Jr.  Atlantic 1235, 1956(mono)-1958 (stereo).

Have a very interesting(to me) reissue and wanted to confirm that this was recorded in Hackensack by RVG.

Thanks

←

My copy (Atlantic Warner Japan reissue) says RVG was the recording engineer. That's all.

←

I've got a green-label Atlantic original stereo pressing (don't anybody get all ga-ga, I found it in a dusty mom-and-pop back in the 70s). To get to the original gist of the question - did Rudy have a stereo recorder in 1956?

That Tom Dowd documentary was on the Sundance channel this morning, and in it. Dowd talks about how Atlantic was recording in/with true stereo before anybody else. I find that claim hard to accept at face value, but not as a generalized statement.

Is it possible that Rudy engineered this session at the Atlantic studios, perhaps to get a taste of using a stereo machine, or something like that? Purely speculation, to be sure.

Also - my cover has the stereo designation seemingly stamped into the cover in yellow ink. It's obviously an Atlantic-designed logo and such, so is this the method that Atlantic used on their covers early on to designate stereo pressings?

[Stereojack]

Is it possible that Rudy engineered this session at the Atlantic studios, perhaps to get a taste of using a stereo machine, or something like that? Purely speculation, to be sure.

Also - my cover has the stereo designation seemingly stamped into the cover in yellow ink. It's obviously an Atlantic-designed logo and such, so is this the method that Atlantic used on their covers early on to designate stereo pressings?

←

[wolff]

Some info on the Konitz: Inside Hi-Fi(Atlantic 1258), that Mike mentions, indicates that it was also recorded in stereo at Hackensack by RVG on 9/26 and 10/16 1956. Mosaic used the mono for the better balance. This leads me to believe the info I have on the Newborn title is correct.

Hearing the reissue I mention raised a few questions.

My questions are not really about RVG doing stereo that early. I'd go into my questions, but they would bore you guys to tears.

I've contacted an Atlantic mastering engineer(1986-2003) who is in contact with Elliot Federman(he mastered my 1986 reissue) to see if I can get the details on the methods used to remaster this title. If I get some definitive answers I'll let you know the whole story.

Jim, any info on who mastered your stereo original, on the cover or initials in the dead wax?

[Dmitry]

First off, I'm a Newborn nut.

Clark, both our Lps are in Mono, trust me and if I'm wrong I'll join the Kenny G fan club. I have the Japanese k2 stereo cd, like I said it sounds wide 'n' weird. I also listened to the original black label Mono that I bought off eBay [maybe it was green, I don't remember since it had an unadvertised scratch, so I sent it back to the seller], and it is one of those cases when the reissue is superior. Too bad about the cover.

Sidenote - Try to get your hands on the rare Japanese Philips recording from 1977, with Allen Jackson and Frank Gant, it's a f@#$ing killer. Titled [aptly] Phineas Is Genius.

[wolff]

Clark, both our Lps are in Mono, trust me and if I'm wrong I'll join the Kenny G fan club.

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I won't hold you to that promise.

Playing my reissue now. Drums in the right channel, bass and guitar in the middle, piano spread much wider than any mono I have. Like no mono I've ever heard.

[ghost of miles]

There's some very early Phineas (as sideman, not leader) sprinkled throughout Bear Family's box of Nashville indie R & B 1945-55.

[Dmitry]

Playing my reissue now.  Drums in the right channel, bass and guitar in the middle, piano spread much wider than any mono I have.  Like no mono I've ever heard.

←

You have 2 speakers then...might have told me that earlier.

[JSngry]

Dead Wax info:

• An "AT" written perpendicular to the usual matrix writing, as well a similarly perpendicular "A" & "B" which for some wierd reason are on the B and A sides, respectively
  
  
• ST-A #11367 & ST-A #11368 on sides A & B, respectively
  
  
• OSS stereo #081958 followed by a subscript "3" & "4" on sides A & B, respectively
  

That's it.

Edited May 30, 2005 by JSngry

[JSngry]

And oh yeah, it's got a deep groove. Which I know don't necessarily mean shit, but hey.

[Chuck Nessa]

Phineas Newborn, Jr.  Atlantic 1235, 1956(mono)-1958 (stereo).

Have a very interesting(to me) reissue and wanted to confirm that this was recorded in Hackensack by RVG.

Thanks

←

My copy (Atlantic Warner Japan reissue) says RVG was the recording engineer. That's all.

←

I've got a green-label Atlantic original stereo pressing (don't anybody get all ga-ga, I found it in a dusty mom-and-pop back in the 70s). To get to the original gist of the question - did Rudy have a stereo recorder in 1956?

That Tom Dowd documentary was on the Sundance channel this morning, and in it. Dowd talks about how Atlantic was recording in/with true stereo before anybody else. I find that claim hard to accept at face value, but not as a generalized statement.

Is it possible that Rudy engineered this session at the Atlantic studios, perhaps to get a taste of using a stereo machine, or something like that? Purely speculation, to be sure.

Also - my cover has the stereo designation seemingly stamped into the cover in yellow ink. It's obviously an Atlantic-designed logo and such, so is this the method that Atlantic used on their covers early on to designate stereo pressings?

←

Rudy told me his first stereo date for BN was the Sabu date. He said he'd been experimenting with the stereo gear on other companies dates but wanted it to be "beyond experimental" before he gave it to Alfred. He said it was "usual" to try out new equipment/techniques on others before introducing them to Lion.

In one of the online interviews with RVG he mentions at least one session for Atlantic when Dowd hauled new stereo gear to Hackensack and they ran parallel recordings. So - maybe the mono is Rudy and the stereo is Dowd.

FWIW, all the early Atlantic stereos had the "embossed" stereo designation - some yellow, some black and I seem to remember blue, green and red too.

[wolff]

In one of the online interviews with RVG he mentions at least one session for Atlantic when Dowd hauled new stereo gear to Hackensack and they ran parallel recordings. So - maybe the mono is Rudy and the stereo is Dowd.

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Yes, this could be part it. Very interesting, thanks. I couldn't be sure if I remembered that interview/information correctly or not and if it applied to this title/reissue. This would go a long way to explain what I am hearing and was one of my guesses.

Frankly, this reissue sounds so very, very unlike any RVG I've ever heard that a bunch of questions came to mind.

Edited May 30, 2005 by wolff

[wolff]

Dead Wax info:

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Thanks for going to the trouble, Jim.

[JSngry]

You're welcome.

Now, what does it all means, especially "OSS"?

[wolff]

Just guessing....#081958 = Aug, 1958, which makes sense as the stereo came out in '58.

ST#11367 & ST-A #11368 may be the master numbers.

The 3 and 4 may be stamper numbers. AT may be Atlantic, it's on a couple of my Atlantic's.

The OSS may be where it was mastered/plated/pressed, but can't find any reference.

Edited May 31, 2005 by wolff

[JSngry]

Yeah, other than the stamper number business, I had pretty much assumed the rest.

But that "OSS" intrigues me. Sure would like to find out what it means!

That, and why the "B" is on the A-side, and vice-versa.

[wolff]

In case Chuck does not know, I posted the OSS question on another board.

Matrix info you can kill some time with on your other LP's and 45's.