king ubu Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I do not think they should have the CD logo on them, as they do conform to the Redbook standard.← And they don't either, at least not nowadays. In the early days of copy protection, the discs sometimes had the CD logo, and the record labels pretended that the discs were in accordance with the Red Book standard (of course they knew that they were lying). Philips reacted and forbade this: "...We've made sure they would put a very clear warning that you're not buying a compact disc, but something different. We've been warning some labels to begin with, and they've adjusted their behaviour. That means labels would also be barred from using the familiar "compact disc" logo that has been stamped on every CD since Philips and Sony jointly developed the technology in 1978." ← Now if only the guys & gals in the stores would have a f*@%ing clue about it! I've yet to meet some vendor who is aware what that copycrap symbol on their "CDs" means! No one has a feghing clue over here, so obviously no one is going to complain... Now more important: are these Legacy reissues *not* copy-protected over here? Has anyone checked that, are they out already? They'll be in stores here 2-4 - or in the worst case 8 or 10 - weeks after the European street date, so I'll be the last to really know... and I'd hate the Cellar Door being copy protected! What dumbasses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Concerning the 'stick with the LP' option proposed by some: LPs were fine in their day, but the main advantage of getting some of the CD reissues is the bonus tracks that were never available on LP. In the case of Drum Suite, there is an alternate that I'm pretty sure was never on any LP. With their current set-up, I will not be able to load this alternate to my iPod. And that just bites. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I have two solutions to this problem and neither one is perfect, so hopefully someone else out there will find a better one. Solution 1: LINUX. I have an extra machine in my house that I loaded Linux on months ago and it will play, rip, and burn this CD with no problems at all. Apparently, Linux completely ignores the DRM in a WMA. If you don't have a machine with Linux, then try a Live Linux CD, which is also something I use a lot. Tried it last night and it also had no problems at all with my new Dexter Gordon CD which is copy protected by First4Internet XCP. Solution 2: Audiograbber Line-in Sampling. I use Audiograbber to do all my ripping and it has the incredible capability to 'rip' or actually record and convert to mp3/wma file anything you can play on your computer - line-in, stream, soundcard, etc. I played the CD using the proprietary player that Sony/Columbia loads and was able to record it using Audiograbber. Not a perfect solution and actually not a true digital extract, probably an analog 'rip', but it sounds great and works on a Windows machine. A lot of manual effort also. Two solutions I discovered in about 24 hours. It's someone elses turn now. BTW, I certainly hope there's no chance of Bluenote RVG Editions ever going this route...my life would be over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 (edited) I played the CD using the proprietary player that Sony/Columbia loads and was able to record it using Audiograbber. Not a perfect solution and actually not a true digital extract, probably an analog 'rip', but it sounds great and works on a Windows machine. ← Doesn't the Sony player play compressed Windows media files from the CD? If yes, it would be worse than an "analog rip". Edited August 19, 2005 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 This is all so feghing stupid, and so totally annoying! I mean: you are actually *buying* (hear that, you EMI Sony whoever executives! We *buy* your product!) the discs, and then you get that crap in return! That's so stupid! Why blame the consumers, the ones who actually buy the product, for the majors sleeping over the whole CDR thing? They ought to kick themselves in their fat asses, majorly, instead of kicking their customers' butts! End of rant - I'm feeling a lot better now, but I still don't know if I'm going to buy any of these releases if they are copy-crapped over here, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 End of rant - I'm feeling a lot better now, but I still don't know if I'm going to buy any of these releases if they are copy-crapped over here, too. ← FWIW, there is no mention of these being CProt over at amazon.de. As there is mention of CProt for the upcoming RVGs, I guess this means that the Legacy disks will be regular CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 End of rant - I'm feeling a lot better now, but I still don't know if I'm going to buy any of these releases if they are copy-crapped over here, too. ← FWIW, there is no mention of these being CProt over at amazon.de. As there is mention of CProt for the upcoming RVGs, I guess this means that the Legacy disks will be regular CDs. ← That would be great! Even moreso for the upcoming Slime dosage... But then I'll believe it when I see it... maybe Amazon just isn't aware yet that Sony turned copycrap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjobbe Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 (edited) Couw, Ubu, don't want to spoil the fest but the one they list here e.g. for the Dexter Gordon is "only" the UK import and that honestly doesn't say anything about the orginal source. As far as I do see there is currently no "non-imported" Legacy release listed at JPC.de, they specifically list this as US-Import !...so sorry to say but I do not expect a regular red-book to come out here. Cheers, Tjobbe The link to the Dexter on JPC Edited August 19, 2005 by tjobbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 yup, just realised that too. Let's just wait and see then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Thanks tjobbe... as I said: I will know when I have the things in my hands... But those JPC-guys are funny, too - go here and click on "CD" to the right of the cover, and look what it says... funny as hell! As if that was "normal"... And why does Amazon list UK imports (at almost Switzerland-conform high prizes)? All a bit strange... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjobbe Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 (edited) Oui moi cher Roi, mais.... According to JPC, they indicate the "Kopiergeschützt" when ever they get this info only, so if they list what has been told by the US (where no sticker is on for the CC), they simply list it the way it is now... Cheers, Tjobbe Edited August 19, 2005 by tjobbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I played the CD using the proprietary player that Sony/Columbia loads and was able to record it using Audiograbber. Not a perfect solution and actually not a true digital extract, probably an analog 'rip', but it sounds great and works on a Windows machine. ← Doesn't the Sony player play compressed Windows media files from the CD? If yes, it would be worse than an "analog rip". ← I don't think so - as far as I can tell, the Sony player is playing the hidden CDA files from the CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neveronfriday Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Just to stir the pot a bit: I have yet to hear a copy-protected CD that sounds inferior. I set up my PC to play anything I want it to play (this part is a bit more complicated for the average user). Summary: I couldn't care less, and I'll buy the music if I like it. What bothers me a lot more is some of that godawful remastering done with both majors and smaller labels today. THAT is f*cking it up for the consumer. *runs off* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 If I am an average user, I can only say that it isn't really all that complicated. It's so easy and I am so average, I do not even know what I did to make my collection of copy protected CDs rippable and mp3-able and whatnotable. And I mean the actual music content, not the crappy files also hidden on the discs. This is why I hardly ever know a solution: I never had the problem in the first place! As for the masterings: I heard (and saw) some pretty crappy shitte too off late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 If I am an average user, I can only say that it isn't really all that complicated. It's so easy and I am so average, I do not even know what I did to make my collection of copy protected CDs rippable and mp3-able and whatnotable. And I mean the actual music content, not the crappy files also hidden on the discs. This is why I hardly ever know a solution: I never had the problem in the first place! As for the masterings: I heard (and saw) some pretty crappy shitte too off late. ← All right, Mr. Average User....what did you do to make all your copy protected CD's not copy protected. Could it be you're a Linux user? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranemonk Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 this is nonsense!!! I bought the Dexter and the Brookmeyer and had no idea about this until I put them in my PC's cd tray.... I keep an electronic database of all my CD's (1700) and this won't be read by my software app.... so I have to install their piece of crap software to PLAY the CD.... (forget about copying it...)???! I emailed Sony to complain... (that was a waste of time but made me feel a little better... ) and am sending the CD's back.... You SHOULD NEVER have to alter your computer simply to play a music CD.... (Looks like a good lawsuit to me....) Do we know if they are going to do this with ALL legacy reissues???? Since I guess I'll not be buying those anytime soon.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 All right, Mr. Average User....what did you do to make all your copy protected CD's not copy protected. Could it be you're a Linux user? ← no Linux, just that somehow I could access all the info on all the CProt CDs I put into my drive. I like to customise my machine & software plenty much, but in this case, there was nothing to customise, it just worked. Can it be that some drives simply are not fooled by the double ToC on these CProt disks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe M Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 There is no such thing as a copy proof cd. They just make it more difficult to do. I got these cds at our radio station, and in order to put them in our computer system, I had to go and record analog copies, and then encode those. Some of them won't even play in our Denon (MP3 compatible) CD decks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Alright...I'm not sure I have this right. The ONLY problem is on computers? They play normally in a component system or car player ? In a two-tray stand alone cdr recorder ? If so....WTF is Sony thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 They play normally in my DVD/CD/SACD player, but it does take a couple of seconds longer for it to read. I think this is absolutely disgraceful. If I buy music, I want to listen to it in whatever way I choose, which includes on my iPod! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted August 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Alright...I'm not sure I have this right. The ONLY problem is on computers? They play normally in a component system or car player ? In a two-tray stand alone cdr recorder ? If so....WTF is Sony thinking? ← Harold, They play normally in anything but a computer. What's bad or regretful is that this has detracted from a discussion of some otherwise fine cds. I've listened to the Gordon, Jamal, Blakey and am listening to the Brookmeyer and they're all outstanding. I find the polyrythms in the Blakey cd (the first 3 cuts, the rest is conventional hard bop) fascinating. My family wasn't crazy about that but I loved it. The music is just great and so are the notes. Columbia has done a first class job with these reissues. In each case, the liner notes are written by somebody special. For example, Randy Weston wrote the notes for the Jamal cd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Use3D Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Can it be that some drives simply are not fooled by the double ToC on these CProt disks? ← Actually yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Found a way to get the Horace Silver CD into iTunes on my PC (although you need a Mac to accomplish it). 1. Using a Mac, import songs into iTunes (apparently Macs are not impacted by the copy-protection BS) 2. Once the songs are loaded, burn a CD using iTunes on the Mac 3. You can then import the newly-burned CD into iTunes on your PC Simple enough, if you are fortunate enough to have easy access to a Mac (my son has one). Still an extraordinarily stupid move on the part of Sony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 So, to thwart Apple (iTunes), the folks at Sony have come up with a scheme that *encourages* people to buy a Mac....... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Alright...I'm not sure I have this right. The ONLY problem is on computers? They play normally in a component system or car player ? In a two-tray stand alone cdr recorder ? If so....WTF is Sony thinking? ← Harold, They play normally in anything but a computer. What's bad or regretful is that this has detracted from a discussion of some otherwise fine cds. I've listened to the Gordon, Jamal, Blakey and am listening to the Brookmeyer and they're all outstanding. I find the polyrythms in the Blakey cd (the first 3 cuts, the rest is conventional hard bop) fascinating. My family wasn't crazy about that but I loved it. The music is just great and so are the notes. Columbia has done a first class job with these reissues. In each case, the liner notes are written by somebody special. For example, Randy Weston wrote the notes for the Jamal cd. ← Thanks Brad. I agree...the music is the important thing here and the copyguard seems easily avoidable. I also agree with those who don't want to alter their pc to play anything, but I don't see a hassle in burning a copy for car and pc on my standalone, thereby avoiding all the unpleasantness. In it's present state this version of copy protection seems destined to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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