God I hope this story is overblown right now!!!

[randissimo]

The more ass kicking the better as far as I'm concerned. This is what happens when you have incompetent liberal politicians in control. That Mayor should get his ass kicked out of office for good.

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[/quote

OK Archie Bunker!

[BERIGAN]

Man, I wish I had thought of it sooner...I showered and caught Shepard Smith just going off about the situation in N.O. Why were they not letting the people walk out, why do they turn people away at the end of the overpass. Let them walk west to were there was food, water, Electricty? So, I ran the DVR thingy back 10 minutes to catch all of it(great feature with Dish Network)Hannity just didn't know what to do....So...they go to Geraldo at the Convention center(These 3 are not my favs, but Shepard Smith really proved himself tonight) Geraldo is a bit of a, well you know what he is. But he is tag teaming with Shepard, Geraldo was saying let these people out, let them go!!! He held up a 5 week old baby, and started to cry! Amazing T.V. to see, to say the least. meanwhile, I had been watching CNN earlier, and it was sounding more like you would expect FOX to sound, things were getting better, blah, blah, blah(at least the part I caught)

[BERIGAN]

A trival question what channel is everyone watching? Just CNN? I go between CNN, Fox and MSNBC, and the networks at 6:30. I think only on NBC did I see that there are/were folks still in many of the apartments there...white folks, looking pretty damn terrible. Who knows how many people are still in N.O.? Without any communication, will people have to go door to door everywhere in N.O.????

Oh, right now at 3 am est they are re-running the Hannity/Colmes show, catch it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited September 3, 2005 by BERIGAN

[Free For All]

A trival question what channel is everyone watching? Just CNN? I go between CNN, Fox and MSNBC, and the networks at 6:30.

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Pretty much the same routine for me. I think there are a LOT of people left to evacuate (I think I might have heard a number of like 50,000, though I hope to hell I'm wrong). I have no idea how they'll do it.

I'm also wondering how they'll evacuate the "thugs" and how many more innocents will get killed in the process. I don't envy them this job, what a fucking nightmare!

After watching the whole 9/11 event unfold, I thought "now I've seen it all" but I now realize there's a whole lot more to process. Each day is another shock. What a world this is right now.

[BERIGAN]

Earlier, I posed the question of why more people did not get out in advance.  If you live in hurricane alley, you KNOW it is SOP to evacuate when you are told.  I have relatives who go through this 2-3x per year.  Yeah, it is a complete pain in the ass and yeah it sucks to sit for an hour on a bridge and it is very disruptive, especially when 9 out of 10 ten times, you would have been OK had you stayed.

With all the hurricane activity of the last 10-15 years, it should not come as a surprise to anyone that hurricanes are deadly - very.  Yet, why do ABLE people stay behind, apparently in large numbers.  If there was no warning, sure.  But why ignore the warnings?  Why does the government not get more aggressive in getting people out?

I have profound sympathy and sadness for the current victims.  The fact that some of them chose not to leave is completely irrelevant at this point.  BUT, the fact remains, that the human loss would have been lower had more people followed the mandatory evacuation.

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Obviously, you have not seen the same coverage I have. What about the people at the convention center who DID EVACUATE? Went where they were told to go. Did exactly as they were told and were left there to die with no food or water or services for days. There were people dying on the spot. Elderly and handicapped people dying in their wheelchairs, women and babies. The reporter I watched said he had people die in front of him. With anguish he said, "I can't take it, anymore".

Also, about the looting. I read an interesting article yesterday that had photos of people taking things from stores. The caption under the black person, wading through chest deep water, said he had just "looted a grocery store". The caption under the white people, wading through chest deep water, said they had just "found bread and sodas from a local grocery".

I don't consider it looting if you are doing everything you can for you and your family to survive.

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More about those photos that sparked so much controversy

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n.../a152350D17.DTL

[Free For All]

After rereading the initial post in this thread I remembered how awful and unimaginable that scenario seemed.

Now all that has taken place, and in addition we've descended several more levels of what was previously incomprehensible horror. Un-fucking-believable.

These days I get up each morning and hurry to the TV, I guess because I'm curious to see what has happened that I couldn't even have imagined. Needless to say I'm relieved if it's a "slow news day". Looking forward to one of those ASAP.

[BERIGAN]

After rereading the initial post in this thread I remembered how awful and unimaginable that scenario seemed.

Now all that has taken place, and in addition we've descended several more levels of what was previously incomprehensible horror. Un-fucking-believable.

These days I get up each morning and hurry to the TV, I guess because I'm curious to see what has happened that I couldn't even have imagined. Needless to say I'm relieved if it's a "slow news day".  Looking forward to one of those ASAP.

←

I hear you. I am all for many a slow news day. I go to bed thinking about it, and wake up thinking about it...I could complain that I am not sleeping well but I had a shower today, ate, drank water, and was in A.C. all day, so I won't.

In your previous post, you wondered if they would be evacuating the "thugs" good question! What will they do with those shooting at them? How many of those snipers are going thru serious withdrawals right now, and are just not thinking clearly?(Oh, if I shoot at that helicopter, that'll make things better ) I hear that is one of the main reasons looters were breaking into the hospitals, was to look for drugs....I wonder if a tiny number of people will not want to leave New Orleans...

Edited September 3, 2005 by BERIGAN

[minew]

A trival question what channel is everyone watching? Just CNN? I go between CNN, Fox and MSNBC, and the networks at 6:30. I think only on NBC did I see that there are/were folks still in many of the apartments there...white folks,   looking pretty damn terrible. Who knows how many people are still in N.O.? Without any communication, will people have to go door to door everywhere in N.O.????

Oh, right now at 3 am est they are re-running the Hannity/Colmes show, catch it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

←

You should also try these local websites which have a lot more information than the conventioncenter/looting loop that the networks are in. Some have streaming video:

wdsu.com

wwltv.com

nola.com (times-picayune)

[minew]

here's a Times-Pic series from a few years ago which foretold almost everything:

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/

[GA Russell]

When it comes to the management abilities of its civic and government leaders, New Orleans is the most pathetic American big city I'm aware of. White or black, doesn't matter. The old money, for example, is the most pathetic in leadership that I am aware of.

I lived through Hurricane Betsy in '65. Everybody knew that New Orleans was vulnerable, but nobody cared. The leadership of the city rejected the Boy Scout motto of Be Prepared about everything. The infrasturcture is terrible, with the pot holes in the streets a disgrace.

Now why FEMA and Homeland Seccurity are so slow, I don't know, but it doesn't surprise me that no one in the New Orleans govt informed FEMA that thousands of people are at the Convention Center. It doesn't surprise me that New Orleans policemen are quitting rather than doing their job. At least the Mayor stayed in the city. When the going gets tough in New Orleans, the civic leaders leave for Mandeville or somewhere. The emigration of the old money has been going on for decades.

I saw last night that a bottled water company wanted to donate its product, and FEMA refused, saying it only wanted cash donations. What sense does that make?

Perhaps one good thing that will come of this is that more people will prepare for a disaster, as they did for Y2K. The idea of stocking bottled water shouldn't seem funny to anyone anymore.

By the way, I'm surprised that the thousands of people at the Super Dome stayed as calm as they did. It was 90+ degrees, no food or water, and probably worst of all, no information regarding what was going on. THE TV liked to show those who would lose their temper and express their dissatisfaction, but I noticed that such people weren't leading a crowd of followers. Nearly everyone was calmly suffering.

By the way, I also noticed how many people, both TV reporters and hurricane victims, mentioned prayer. When times are tough, people aren't reluctant to mention their belief in God.

[Christiern]

GA Russell: "Now why FEMA and Homeland Seccurity are so slow, I don't know, but it doesn't surprise me that no one in the New Orleans govt informed FEMA that thousands of people are at the Convention Center."

They didn't have to inform FEMA, it was all over the TV and radio--only people with their head in the sand could be so ignorant of the situation at the Convention Center. FEMA fool Michael Brown's excuse is pathetic. He and the other Michael (Homeland Security) need to be fired and, perhaps, tried.

[Guy Berger]

FEMA fool Michael Brown's excuse is pathetic. He and the other Michael (Homeland Security) need to be fired and, perhaps, tried.

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Agreed.

Guy

[JSngry]

I saw last night that a bottled water company wanted to donate its product, and FEMA refused, saying it only wanted cash donations.  What sense does that make?

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I didn't see that. Details, please.

Mind-boggling...

[Dan Gould]

FEMA fool Michael Brown's excuse is pathetic. He and the other Michael (Homeland Security) need to be fired and, perhaps, tried.

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Agreed.

Guy

←

Are you seriously agreeing that they should be "tried"?

I thought you were smarter than that.

[Guy Berger]

FEMA fool Michael Brown's excuse is pathetic. He and the other Michael (Homeland Security) need to be fired and, perhaps, tried.

←

Agreed.

Guy

←

Are you seriously agreeing that they should be "tried"?

Not sure if there are laws for criminal negligence.

I thought you were smarter than that.

←

Sorry to disappoint.

Guy

[mikeweil]

excuse me while I yell....

CAN WE GET SOME FUCKING BUSES OVER ON I-GODDAMN-10 TO PICK UP THESE PEOPLE GODDAMN IT.  THIS IS FUCKING RIDICULOUS.  I'M ABOUT TO GET IN MY CAR AND GO DOWN I-10 AND PICKUP AT LEAST SOMEBODY!!!!!!!

German NTV reporters watched busses leaving New Orleans empty or half-empty and even watched one convoi stopping a few hundred yards before a group of people and turning around without picking them up!

[catesta]

FEMA fool Michael Brown's excuse is pathetic. He and the other Michael (Homeland Security) need to be fired and, perhaps, tried.

←

Agreed.

Guy

←

Are you seriously agreeing that they should be "tried"?

Not sure if there are laws for criminal negligence.

Guy

←

In order to be consistent you would have put a whole lot of government folks on trial, the mayor and governor included.

Chertoff is in way over his head, but is sure appears many local politcians are as well.

You won't find me defending Bush on this either.

[Guy Berger]

Are you seriously agreeing that they should be "tried"?

Not sure if there are laws for criminal negligence.

Guy

←

In order to be consistent you would have put a whole lot of government folks on trial, the mayor and governor included.

If there are applicable laws, "perhaps they should be tried" as well.

Guy

Edited September 3, 2005 by Guy

[GA Russell]

GA Russell: "Now why FEMA and Homeland Seccurity are so slow, I don't know, but it doesn't surprise me that no one in the New Orleans govt informed FEMA that thousands of people are at the Convention Center."

They didn't have to inform FEMA, it was all over the TV and radio--only people with their head in the sand could be so ignorant of the situation at the Convention Center. FEMA fool Michael Brown's excuse is pathetic. He and the other Michael (Homeland Security) need to be fired and, perhaps, tried.

←

Chris, I have to disagree with you and maybe for the first time agree with Dan Gould. I don't get cable TV and can't say what they were reporting on, but I have been watching as much of NBC and ABC as I could, and they reported only on the Super Dome, never mentioning the Convention Center until the day that Brown said he had just learned about it.

[Ron S]

GA Russell: "Now why FEMA and Homeland Seccurity are so slow, I don't know, but it doesn't surprise me that no one in the New Orleans govt informed FEMA that thousands of people are at the Convention Center."

They didn't have to inform FEMA, it was all over the TV and radio--only people with their head in the sand could be so ignorant of the situation at the Convention Center. FEMA fool Michael Brown's excuse is pathetic. He and the other Michael (Homeland Security) need to be fired and, perhaps, tried.

←

Chris, I have to disagree with you and maybe for the first time agree with Dan Gould. I don't get cable TV and can't say what they were reporting on, but I have been watching as much of NBC and ABC as I could, and they reported only on the Super Dome, never mentioning the Convention Center until the day that Brown said he had just learned about it.

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But one would hope that FEMA and its Director are not relying on network television for this kind of information.

[Soul Stream]

It seems to me that we should do away with Homeland Security and FEMA should be drastically reduced to a coordination center in these disaster situations.

Give me the Military (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines) and the Red Cross. Those are the only two organizations that have actually come through and perform as expected here.

If an earthquake happens in CA these are the only two agencies we should send. Everything else just seems to be beurocratic b.s. that can't pull it's head out.

[GA Russell]

I saw last night that a bottled water company wanted to donate its product, and FEMA refused, saying it only wanted cash donations.  What sense does that make?

←

I didn't see that. Details, please.

Mind-boggling...

←

Jim, I watched NBC at 9:00 o'clock and ABC at 10:00 o'clock last night, and I can't say for certain which of the two shows it was on. I think it was the NBC Dateline. Anyway, a water company from I think he said Minnesota offered to donate the water and was refused, so he found a private agency, I don't believe the Red Cross I think it was someone else, who would accept it. So he was happy to report that the water was on its way to New Orleans.

I just don't understand govt policy here. If Home Depot wants to donate supplies for rebuilding, why would the govt reject such an offer? Maybe there is paperwork involved that I don't know about, but it would seem to me that the govt should be prepared to be offered in-kind donations, and that if the govt has made the decision to accept only cash then it should already know which private relief organization will accept such in-kind donations, rather than requiring every donor to do the investigative work of determing who will accept it.

[Soul Stream]

I just don't understand govt policy here.  If Home Depot wants to donate supplies for rebuilding, why would the govt reject such an offer?  Maybe there is paperwork involved that I don't know about, but it would seem to me that the govt should be prepared to be offered in-kind donations, and that if the govt has made the decision to accept only cash then it should already know which private relief organization will accept such in-kind donations, rather than requiring every donor to do the investigative work of determing who will accept it.

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If Ozarka wants to donate water. Get a bunch of Ozarka trucks and head to NOLA and pass the water out on I-10 to all the dying people!!!!! Skip the inept middle man called the U.S. Gov. and let's get this done.

Plus, I'm sure we'll be seeing plenty of WalMart and Home Depot ads telling us how much they're helping and how we can help with them. You know what....F*** all that corporate bullshit, now's not the time. Donate to the Red Cross as a corporation and don't advertise the fact.

Corporations of America need to quit their self-serving grandious "help" all their PR and Ad Agencies are helping them with and get real.

[catesta]

It seems to me that we should do away with Homeland Security and FEMA should be drastically reduced to a coordination center in these disaster situations.

Give me the Military (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines) and the Red Cross.  Those are the only two organizations that have actually come through and perform as expected here.

If an earthquake happens in CA these are the only two agencies we should send.  Everything else just seems to be beurocratic b.s. that can't pull it's head out.

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Downsize and or eliminate a government agency, hell yes.

[GA Russell]

But one would hope that FEMA and its Director are not relying on network television for this kind of information.

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Ron, I agree. That's my point. The New Orleans and Louisiana govts should have informed FEMA of the status quo, and they didn't. It looked to me like Brown did in fact learn of the Convention Center crowd from television. That shouldn't happen. For that matter, the Convention Center crowd apparently gathered two days before the television people began to report about it. Why didn't the TV people know about it? Why did they devote 100% of their reporting to the Super Dome?