God I hope this story is overblown right now!!!

[Soul Stream]

I do think things will start to improve today. The criticisms reached a critical mass last night and the attitude seems to have shifted drastically today. Let's hope today's the day we really start to see some marked improvement in the amount help being given. I think it will be.

[JSngry]

For the section of the population that has no means, that is a local government/public policy issue, which obviously failed in this case and I hope that is where one of the lessons can be learned.

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Well, nothing like that is a purely "local" issue these days, what with all the federal funding (or cuts thereof) and all the bullshit games that get played around it. But yeah, the city failed its citizens when crunch time came. I too hope that it gets analyzed and that lessons are learned. And I suspect that there will be blame aplenty, and not just at the local level. We'll see...

But now wait a minute, are you saying that there were people who couldn't get out and were forced to stay? Any idea how many? You think that demographics might provide us with a starting place for a rough estimate? Well, then...

[Cali]

Earlier, I posed the question of why more people did not get out in advance.  If you live in hurricane alley, you KNOW it is SOP to evacuate when you are told.  I have relatives who go through this 2-3x per year.  Yeah, it is a complete pain in the ass and yeah it sucks to sit for an hour on a bridge and it is very disruptive, especially when 9 out of 10 ten times, you would have been OK had you stayed.

With all the hurricane activity of the last 10-15 years, it should not come as a surprise to anyone that hurricanes are deadly - very.  Yet, why do ABLE people stay behind, apparently in large numbers.  If there was no warning, sure.  But why ignore the warnings?  Why does the government not get more aggressive in getting people out?

I have profound sympathy and sadness for the current victims.  The fact that some of them chose not to leave is completely irrelevant at this point.  BUT, the fact remains, that the human loss would have been lower had more people followed the mandatory evacuation.

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Obviously, you have not seen the same coverage I have. What about the people at the convention center who DID EVACUATE? Went where they were told to go. Did exactly as they were told and were left there to die with no food or water or services for days. There were people dying on the spot. Elderly and handicapped people dying in their wheelchairs, women and babies. The reporter I watched said he had people die in front of him. With anguish he said, "I can't take it, anymore".

Also, about the looting. I read an interesting article yesterday that had photos of people taking things from stores. The caption under the black person, wading through chest deep water, said he had just "looted a grocery store". The caption under the white people, wading through chest deep water, said they had just "found bread and sodas from a local grocery".

I don't consider it looting if you are doing everything you can for you and your family to survive.

[JSngry]

The point is - nobody should be shocked about the level of damage - human and property - that has been caused here.  Hurricanes are profoundly destructive.  We know that and when we know they are coming, our best strategy as it relates to saving lives is to tell people to get out of their way, ASAP.  I think what this situation reveals is that if we really want to save lives, we need to do a better job of helping people get out.

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NOW you're talking!

[Eric]

I have known plenty of people who have ignored hurricane warnings over the years. 

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And how many of the people still in New Orleans chose to ignore the warnings? Let's set the figure really high, say, 50%. Now let's get those people out by any means necessary. That's still a helluva lot of people.

I've no doubt that some people had a chance to leave, and I said so. I also said that they made their own bed by choosing to stay. My point is that knowing what I know of the "real" New Orleans, the city that the tourists don't see, that there were a lot more people who had no independent way out than some people seem to be willing to consider. Why this would seem unfathomable is beyond me. Lots of poor (and old) people in New Orleans. And they don't have basements either. We're not in Kansas anymore, as they say...

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Gee, never heard that one before

BTW, I have spent plenty of time in the "real" NO as well as other major US and third world cities. I friggin' get it.

It is not in the least bit unfathomable that a certain portion of the population could not get out. How do we deal with those folks next time? And we definitely know there will be a next time, that is sort of the good news/bad news story here. And, how do we convince those who have the means (and for the record, I believe it is a higher % than you do, but whatever), to get the f out? These are all needless, needless tragedies. If we can fix these problems, then it is just an issue for State Farm to sort out.

[Soul Stream]

Just saw on CNN....massive convoy of buses, troops and supplies have arrived in the city of New Orleans.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Just throwing this out - I wonder whether the instantaneous coverage we receive via TV, radio, Internet has changed our expectations of how fast things should move. A truck still moves at the same speed.

We can get the news of the situation faster, but can we accomplish things with as much speed? Were this 50 years ago, how much would we as the public know about what was going on? Would the public sentiment be one more of sympathy than of outrage?

Mike

[RDK]

Face the facts, Eric, it has become impossible to divorce Katrina from politics. Live with it.

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If it's impossible to separate Katrina from politics, then this thread should be moved to the politics forum.

Guy

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This disaster certainly has a political components, but it goes far beyond politics as well. I don't care which fucking forum it's in. Why should anyone?

[catesta]

Just throwing this out - I wonder whether the instantaneous coverage we receive via TV, radio, Internet has changed our expectations of how fast things should move. A truck still moves at the same speed.

We can get the news of the situation faster, but can we accomplish things with as much speed? Were this 50 years ago, how much would we as the public know about what was going on? Would the public sentiment be one more of sympathy than of outrage?

Mike

←

Good questions.

It's not as easy as just getting trucks and busses in the area. The place is covered in water and that means boats and helicopters are needed. That makes it a much more difficult task.

[Free For All]

My feeling was "since all these journalists seem to able to get around the city, why does it seem impossible for basic supplies to get distributed?". With all those helicopters flying over, it seems they could have done more drops.

In any case, things seem to be definitely improving today. I think the media/public outrage contributed to getting things into a higher gear. And I'll be first to give the gov't credit when they show they have their shit together.

[RDK]

Anyone else see Harry Connick on the Today Show this morning? One of the more moving pieces I've heard so far. He was quick to criticize as well, and suggested that he could drive a truck filled with water and supplies and get to the heart of the city in an hour.

[jazzypaul]

This disaster certainly has a political components, but it goes far beyond politics as well. I don't care which fucking forum it's in. Why should anyone?

If anything, it (and any other Katrina related threads) should stay right here where everyone can see them. Regardless of political affiliation, you can see where the democrats in Louisiana dropped the ball, and the republicans in DC dropped the ball.

Beyond that, we're all Americans, and therefore this is everybody's story. If you haven't given to a charity, sent clothes to the salvation army or done SOMETHING to help out, you're a total fuckwad, plain and simple. And don't give me this shit about, "I don't have it right now." These people down there in NO, Biloxi and other gulf towns don't have ANYTHING. You can spare $10, a can of green beans and an old shirt. You don't get to not see people talking about it simply because "it's a political issue."

Personally, at the moment, I am ashamed of most of my friends. I sent out an appeal by the Robert McCormick foundation offering to match every dollar sent up to $1,000,000, and only three responded. Is that what this country is coming to?

If it is, then there's a pox on all of our houses, each and every one of us.

Edited September 2, 2005 by jazzypaul

[Free For All]

Regardless of political affiliation, you can see where the democrats in Louisiana dropped the ball, and the republicans in DC dropped the ball.

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Agreed!

[Jim Alfredson]

Word, JP!

I'm donating my gig monies this week to the Red Cross.

[catesta]

Regardless of political affiliation, you can see where the democrats in Louisiana dropped the ball, and the republicans in DC dropped the ball.

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Agreed!

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Agreed and agreed.

[BERIGAN]

Just throwing this out - I wonder whether the instantaneous coverage we receive via TV, radio, Internet has changed our expectations of how fast things should move. A truck still moves at the same speed.

We can get the news of the situation faster, but can we accomplish things with as much speed? Were this 50 years ago, how much would we as the public know about what was going on? Would the public sentiment be one more of sympathy than of outrage?

Mike

←

Mike you make a good point...50, 60 years ago I don't think there could be this level of publicity. The Berlin airlift I am sure had some delays at the beginning, but people don't mention that today. Getting things thru a flood zone has to slow things down.

But, I got to wonder how we could have such a collapse at the local, state and Federal level. Why were there not, oh I don't know, 50 Dasani trucks a hundred miles east of N.O. in Louisiana? I heard that FEMA had a mock disaster in N.O. last year...did no one see at least some of these problems? Doesn't someone in government read National Geographic?

[John B]

I just found out that my employer is donating $10,000 to the Red Cross and is also organizing an employee fund drive.

The state of Vermont, working with the Red Cross, has set up ten collection points around the state where they will be accepting a specific list of non-perishable supplies. The state police will then escort a convoy of trucks to Gulfport, Mississippi tomorrow morning.

I've been experiencing the opposite reaction from jazzypaul. Everyone I know is rushing to get to the supermarket to buy supplies in time to make the shipment that the state is coordinating. I think people really want to help, they just might have other avenues for giving already set up and can't give more than they already have.

[bertrand]

What's a more efficient way of helping? I donated some money to the Red Cross, and intend to send more over the next few weeks. But are there places that will take food donations as well, and is that just as helpful as the cash donations?

I wonder if there's anything more I can do in D.C. This is such an immense tragedy that I am pretty much speechless.

Bertrand.

[John B]

What's a more efficient way of helping?  I donated some money to the Red Cross, and intend to send more over the next few weeks.  But are there places that will take food donations as well, and is that just as helpful as the cash donations?

Bertrand.

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I would recommend contacting your local Red Cross office and ask both questions. They are collecting food locally here, they very well might be doing the same near you.

contact info is here.

Edited September 2, 2005 by John B

[BERIGAN]

What's a more efficient way of helping?  I donated some money to the Red Cross, and intend to send more over the next few weeks.  But are there places that will take food donations as well, and is that just as helpful as the cash donations?

I wonder if there's anything more I can do in D.C.  This is such an immense tragedy that I am pretty much speechless.

Bertrand.

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Most everything I have read has said cash(really credit cards if you do it online) I think in the near future, many cities around the country that will take in the million + displaced people from the region(There are a lot of N.O. folks here in Atlanta even) will need clothing for these people, but right now Money for food, water and shelter has to be the top priority.

[catesta]

A positive story I didn't see until today.

My apologies if it was already posted.

Thousands Send Donations for Storm Victims

[Eric]

Face the facts, Eric, it has become impossible to divorce Katrina from politics. Live with it.

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If it's impossible to separate Katrina from politics, then this thread should be moved to the politics forum.

Guy

←

This disaster certainly has a political components, but it goes far beyond politics as well. I don't care which fucking forum it's in. Why should anyone?

←

Because I am an overly-sensitive conservative? Make you happy?

[minew]

Ok, Eric - how you gonna leave when you have no car? It's not like there was an organized plan to get everybody out, is it? Seems to me it was like, "Well, y'all better get out if you can, and if you can't, c'mon ove to the Superdome". Great plan that turned out to be...

Hey, look - anybody who could've gotten out and chose to stay made their own bed. But dude - LOTS of poor people in urban areas don't have cars. It costs money to get a car, it costs money to buy gas, it costs money for upkeep, it costs money for insurance. Poor people by definition don't have a lot of money! And if you're old and poor, hey, that just make your options even more limited. Old, poor, and not in good health, hey, three strikes and you're NOT out!

You ever see people riding the bus to work? Not everybody does it becuase they're "environmentally aware" or some shit like that. For plenty people, that's the only transportation they have.

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census data used in hurricane modelling estimates about 110,000 households in the metro area without vehicles

an estimated 80% of metro residents evacuated before the storm

Edited September 2, 2005 by minew

[BERIGAN]

They just had some survivors from N.O. on CNN, one guy said he was going to leave, but found the highway closed, so turned back to his house! The other 2 people said that basically, people from around there never left for Hurricanes, made it thru Betsy, and Camille....

[BERIGAN]

Death toll in Louisiana could be above 10,000: US Senator 2 hours, 7 minutes ago

BATON ROUGE, United States (AFP) - US Senator David Vitter said that the death toll from Hurricane Katrina could top 10,000 in Louisiana alone.

"My guess is that it will start at 10,000, but that is only a guess," Vitter said, adding that he was not basing his remarks on any official death toll or body count.

Vitter, a Louisiana Republican, also called for the immediate deployment of regular US combat troops in New Orleans, saying the build-up of National Guard troops was too slow to quickly restore order.

Such a step would require Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco to formally request the dispatch of federal army soldiers, a highly unusual step.

Blanco said on Thursday that she had asked for 40,000 troops, the majority of which are National Guard units from Louisiana and elsewhere.

Five-thousand National Guard troops are expected to be on the ground in violence-wracked New Orleans by late Friday, military leaders said.

But Vitter said that timeline could be too slow, amid reports that bands of armed men are roaming the streets in the city, which is 80 percent submerged in floods brought in by a storm tide after the hurricane hit on Monday.

Vitter, speaking to reporters at the emergency response center in Baton Rouge, also said he gave the federal government a grade 'F' for its response to the disaster so far.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050902/pl_afp/usweatherdeaths