BFT#36 discussion

[wordsandsounds]

Just found mine in the mail. Weekend is looking good.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I hope to post some answers tomorrow evening/Wednesday - sorry - unexpectedly busy these last couple of days! Am listening as I type however, and am really enjoying it!

Expecting big things from you, Red! Agog!

Please don't! My attainment in the game will not even match up to me enjoyment.

Which said, you and I are going to fall out Where is Harry Carney? The greatest of them all!

One more thing before we start: nobody forget Joe Temperley, the UK bari player who took Carney's chair for a while towards the end, and is himself a wonderful player.

So...

Track 1: wondeful piano intro. The touch is familiar, but I can't say who it is. Very filmic opening. The big band chart is great - fantastically rhythmically writing. Perhaps a little less harmonically adventurous than the opening sets up? Great trumpet section. It's big as well - which makes me think - is it Kenton? It could be Art Pepper on alto then...or Lennie Niehaus? Don't know the bari player, but enjoy his false fingerings.

2: Nice tune; it's the bastard child of 'Would You Like to Take a Walk' and 'Where or When'. Touch of the pianist reminds me of Hampton Hawes; I really enjoy the solo. Very idiomatic bop, before the concept got tired. Love the bari player's tone. Cecil Payne? No idea really...Great bass solo!

3: I'm hearing a lot of Basie...not sure. Like the track a lot. Nice solos all around (the tenor player has a bit of Griffin to him, and the drummer doubles up a lot like Philly Joe). No idea on the bari, although an attractive sound.

4: West Coast sound. Alto and Baritone - the Eb saxophones sound wonderful together (the great example surely being Hodges and Carney). I'll guess Bob Gordon on bari, but it is only a guess, and comes with the proviso that my knowledge of West Coast music is lamentable! Nice tight rhythm section - I don't like West Coast stuff where p/b/d just sit back; it can get a bit insipid. Nice transition here from bari to alto solos. That sounds like it could be Art Pepper, or is the tone that little bit soft?

5: Nice drumming. Tune is familiar (or is it just generic but attractive?), although can't put a name on it. Nice comping by the piano player! Like this track a lot.

6: Not crazy about the arrangement here. Tune isn't - but sounds like it's related to - Nelson's 'Blues and the Abstract Truth'. Actually tune is a bit stuttery for me. Solos are nice though. Finding with a lot of these tracks that players are very familiar, but difficult to pin down (ain't that just the way...). I love the way the tenor player just crashes in! He sounds like the ringer here.

7: Sounds like some kind of Tadd Dameron type tune, though wouldn't know if it is one of his. Like it a lot. I take it that's JJ? In which case - Leo Parker?

8: Not crazy about the piano player, but the horns work nicely together. The guitar is a nice textural touch. Good drumming! Bari player (whom - and you've spotted the pattern - I can't identify) swings really nicely.

9: Blue Bossa. Don't like this too much...don't know who the players are. Trombone solo is quite nice, I guess. Soprano solo? No thanks...

10: Nice arrangement! This really reminds me of those A.K. Salim arrangements for Savoy.

11: Like a lot, but no idea on the players.

12: Yes! Like it a lot as well. Fun drumming, fun tune. Really swings! Slightly nuts arrangement - the tune in 4ths is a bit unexpected; the pedal point section feels a bit bolted on, but somehow works. Then the soloists, who feel like they've been waiting like greyhounds in traps, are onto it! They actually sound a bit overexcitable. Fantastic.

13: Oh no, I'm not going to sleep until I name the tune. Pettiford one? No...I think it's a Golson tune the messengers played. Is that Art Farmer on trumpet? I want to say Pepper Adams, but I don't quite think so. Wonderful!

14: Attractive tune; again, a west coast thing going on. Could this be Mulligan? Or Bob Gordon? (Or should I stop showing my ignorance! )

15: Nice Rollins-influenced calypso groove. Can't pick the players, although I like the bari player's grit. This is a fun track.

16: Piano player is interesting here. That intro is absolutely captivating - at once incredibly formulaic, but freewheeling and very intense. I like this track a lot - something I'd be very keen to have. Nice comping as well. Could this be the Fats Navarro/Howard McGhee, with - who? Cecil Payne?

A great BFT, thank you. I think I've possibly enjoyed a higher proportion of the tracks on this than any other! Looking forwards to being educated with the answers.

[tooter]

I hope to post some answers tomorrow evening/Wednesday - sorry - unexpectedly busy these last couple of days! Am listening as I type however, and am really enjoying it!

Expecting big things from you, Red! Agog!

Please don't! My attainment in the game will not even match up to me enjoyment.

I'm glad I did - a "sterling" effort and several additions to the "Progress" thread. I'm including correct guesses there too of course.

[tooter]

I hope to post some answers tomorrow evening/Wednesday - sorry - unexpectedly busy these last couple of days! Am listening as I type however, and am really enjoying it!

Expecting big things from you, Red! Agog!

Which said, you and I are going to fall out Where is Harry Carney? The greatest of them all!

All I can say is "mea culpa" because I didn't have anything including Harry Carney available, a lamentable failure. He's not the only extremely important baritone player to be omitted either, although most are there!

Some of them still unrecognised but not so many now.

[tooter]

I hope to post some answers tomorrow evening/Wednesday - sorry - unexpectedly busy these last couple of days! Am listening as I type however, and am really enjoying it!

One more thing before we start: nobody forget Joe Temperley, the UK bari player who took Carney's chair for a while towards the end, and is himself a wonderful player.

Mmmmm....!!!! So... Give me a number!

[tooter]

[Stereojack]

BFT #36

Let me start by saying that the theme of this BFT was a real challenge. I got a couple of pretty obvious ones, but I was stumped by many.

1. I think this is the Clarke-Boland big band, and if it is, that would be Derek Humble on alto, Ake Persson on trombone, Sahib Shihab on bari.

2. A nice track, sounds like it was probably recorded in the 1960’s. Fine musicians all around, but no clue who they are. Cecil Payne on bari?

3. Probably a 50’s date, the feel is very much out of Basie, maybe this is an Ernie Wilkins chart? I get the feeling this may be one of those all star sessions on Savoy, the tenor might be Frank Foster, but the bari?

4. Cool, sweet, possibly west coast. Or are we in Sweden with Lars Gullin and Arne Domnerus? Very nice, lovely bari playing. Nice tenor too, can’t come up with a name. Now the pianist sounds like it could be Claude Williamson or Pete Jolly, but I’m gonna stick with the Swedes on this one.

5. Now this is familiar – I’m sure I’ve heard (and might even have) this record. Ballsy bari player – Nick Brignola?

6. This is puzzling. The alto is a little off-kilter, in a nice sort of way. The bari player is OK, but I don’t dig the tenor at all. Interesting piano-less ensemble, nice chart, well played.

7. We’ve gone back to the early days of bebop for this one, the trombone is very J.J.-like (there might be a good reason for that). Leo Parker on bari? Excellent vintage track!

8. The tune is “Centerpiece” aka “Keester Parade”. This track seems kinda rote to me; they never rise above the mundane.

9. A Horace Silver-styled introduction leads in to “Blue Bossa”, a tune that has been played to death. This version smokes, however. Really fine trombone player, possibly Bill Watrous. There’s a younger guy that sounds like Watrous, I think his name is John Allred. This could be him. I like the soprano, and wonder if the bari might be Ronnie Cuber. Here’s a perfect example of musicians making something special out of warhorse material!

10. Weird ping-pong stereo separation on this, suggesting that it might have been recorded in the late 50’s. Again, a fine trombone player. This BFT could also double as a trombone sampler! Oh, that tenor is so familiar, a nice R&B inflected style with a strong blues feeling. The short bari solo is a teaser. Liked this, no clues.

11. This sounds like Gerry Mulligan to me. Most likely it’s Bob Brookmeyer on valve trombone, maybe Gene Quill on alto, Gerry on bari, not sure about the trumpet, although I like his playing. I think I’m hearing two tenor solos, or maybe the one guy changes his sound slightly midstream. Might this be from Gerry’s Pacific Jazz big band album? I seem to recall that Allen Eager was on that.

12. “The Champ” An aggressive tenor solo, but not too imaginative. Another good bari player, not turning on any light bulbs in my brain. A nice drum solo – this guy has a nice snare sound. I’m reminded of Nick Fatool a little, but I think that this is a more modern drummer than Nick.

13. Dammit, I’m hearing this track for the third time, and I still can’t identify this very familiar tune! Is it a Benny Golson composition? I think the bari is Pepper Adams, strong solo. Art Farmer on trumpet (or fluegelhorn) seems right. I’m sure I know this pianist, I swear I’ve got this album! Is the tune "Fair Weather"?

14. Now this has to be Gerry Mulligan! If so, then I’m all wrong about #11. Or maybe it’s somebody playing a Mulligan tune? Can’t place anybody here.

15. “Little Old Lady”, Hoagy Carmichael’s tune. No names are popping up here, although I like the track overall. The calypso feeling is nice. John Surman on bari? I seem to recall an LP he made that had some calypso tunes on it. Understandably, the tenor recalls Sonny Rollins a little. This track grew on me after a few listens.

16. I knew Serge Chaloff had to show up eventually, and here he is. This must be one of the Savoy sides. Again, a nice trombone player, Earl Swope maybe? Good bop trumpet – Red Rodney? And there’s the unmistakeable Serge!

I put off typing up my responses for several days because I was so mystified by this BFT. I’m guessing that “Tooter” is a bari player?

Well done. Now I can go back and read everybody else’s responses!

[tooter]

BFT #36

Let me start by saying that the theme of this BFT was a real challenge. I got a couple of pretty obvious ones, but I was stumped by many.

1. I think this is the Clarke-Boland big band, and if it is, that would be Derek Humble on alto, Ake Persson on trombone, Sahib Shihab on bari.

Bingo! CBBB, and right on the soloists.

2. A nice track, sounds like it was probably recorded in the 1960’s. Fine musicians all around, but no clue who they are. Cecil Payne on bari?

Cecil - yes. A little later than 60's though.

3. Probably a 50’s date, the feel is very much out of Basie, maybe this is an Ernie Wilkins chart? I get the feeling this may be one of those all star sessions on Savoy, the tenor might be Frank Foster, but the bari?

No

4. Cool, sweet, possibly west coast. Or are we in Sweden with Lars Gullin and Arne Domnerus? Very nice, lovely bari playing. Nice tenor too, can’t come up with a name. Now the pianist sounds like it could be Claude Williamson or Pete Jolly, but I’m gonna stick with the Swedes on this one.

Your instinct is right - Swedish. Lars and Arne. Tenor player not too well-known I guess; I'll tell you because it's pretty unlikely anyone will get it without looking it up - Carl-Henrik Norin.

5. Now this is familiar – I’m sure I’ve heard (and might even have) this record. Ballsy bari player – Nick Brignola?

Nope! I've been just slightly devious with this one. All will be revealed in due course.

6. This is puzzling. The alto is a little off-kilter, in a nice sort of way. The bari player is OK, but I don’t dig the tenor at all. Interesting piano-less ensemble, nice chart, well played.

Still no alto i.d? Well, well!

7. We’ve gone back to the early days of bebop for this one, the trombone is very J.J.-like (there might be a good reason for that). Leo Parker on bari? Excellent vintage track!

Yes, and yes

8. The tune is “Centerpiece” aka “Keester Parade”. This track seems kinda rote to me; they never rise above the mundane.

Ah - I didn't know of the alternative title, just knew it as "Keester Parade". So I'm not sure if anyone knows who's playing.

9. A Horace Silver-styled introduction leads in to “Blue Bossa”, a tune that has been played to death. This version smokes, however. Really fine trombone player, possibly Bill Watrous. There’s a younger guy that sounds like Watrous, I think his name is John Allred. This could be him. I like the soprano, and wonder if the bari might be Ronnie Cuber. Here’s a perfect example of musicians making something special out of warhorse material!

Right on tune and trombone, but not Cuber, here!

10. Weird ping-pong stereo separation on this, suggesting that it might have been recorded in the late 50’s. Again, a fine trombone player. This BFT could also double as a trombone sampler! Oh, that tenor is so familiar, a nice R&B inflected style with a strong blues feeling. The short bari solo is a teaser. Liked this, no clues.

Just coincidence about the trombones, but perhaps not as the two instruments go so well together. Must be lots of other examples.

11. This sounds like Gerry Mulligan to me. Most likely it’s Bob Brookmeyer on valve trombone, maybe Gene Quill on alto, Gerry on bari, not sure about the trumpet, although I like his playing. I think I’m hearing two tenor solos, or maybe the one guy changes his sound slightly midstream. Might this be from Gerry’s Pacific Jazz big band album? I seem to recall that Allen Eager was on that.

Wow, you're good! Falling like ninepins!! And here I was thinking maybe I'd made it too difficult. Two tenors, yes (not Eager) - both top flight. I know I could never have heard that without the line-up in front of me. I was trying to guess which was which but couldn't. Jeru and BB is right - not Quill but kinda close. Leader is someone else.

12. “The Champ” An aggressive tenor solo, but not too imaginative. Another good bari player, not turning on any light bulbs in my brain. A nice drum solo – this guy has a nice snare sound. I’m reminded of Nick Fatool a little, but I think that this is a more modern drummer than Nick.

You got the tune. Glad to hear you like the baritone player! The drummer is, I think it's fair to say, not well-known.

13. Dammit, I’m hearing this track for the third time, and I still can’t identify this very familiar tune! Is it a Benny Golson composition? I think the bari is Pepper Adams, strong solo. Art Farmer on trumpet (or fluegelhorn) seems right. I’m sure I know this pianist, I swear I’ve got this album! Is the tune "Fair Weather"?

Pepper Adams, yes. Tune written by the pianist. I don't think anyone has identified this trumpet player yet.

14. Now this has to be Gerry Mulligan! If so, then I’m all wrong about #11. Or maybe it’s somebody playing a Mulligan tune? Can’t place anybody here.

Not Mulligan - you're not invincible then?

15. “Little Old Lady”, Hoagy Carmichael’s tune. No names are popping up here, although I like the track overall. The calypso feeling is nice. John Surman on bari? I seem to recall an LP he made that had some calypso tunes on it. Understandably, the tenor recalls Sonny Rollins a little. This track grew on me after a few listens.

Tune you got, but not John Surman. I hope this one will lead to a few purchases of the album. Baritone player deserves to be better known I should think.

16. I knew Serge Chaloff had to show up eventually, and here he is. This must be one of the Savoy sides. Again, a nice trombone player, Earl Swope maybe? Good bop trumpet – Red Rodney? And there’s the unmistakeable Serge!

Spot on with trombone, trumpet and baritone too. A fine flourish with which to end I must say.

Virtuoso performance! Thanks a lot, Jack - very happy you didn't boycott my modest effort. Now I will update the "progress" thread and hope I can remember all of your hits.

[tooter]

Things are really filling up now on the progress chart but there's still a few with nothing identified. Many more contributions to come I hope - plenty of time and another weekend is upon us.

[mikeweil]

At first I was mad at myself, beacuse after the first two enthusiastic listening rounds I couldn't find any more time to dig in deeper into the grooves of this groovy disc, but now I know why: My Gods wanted to save me being even more mad at myself, had I not been able to identify track # 1, which sounded awfully familiar, but I couldn't track it down .... but last night the light flashed and I got it. My favourite European arranger at work, and one of the greatest big bands ever, and I certainly do hear their meanin'! This is available for a mere $ 6.98 at this label's website - I got it last week, the CD transfer sounds good.

Rodney, did you dub this from LP?

- more to come, I won't peak!

[tooter]

At first I was mad at myself, beacuse after the first two enthusiastic listening rounds I couldn't find any more time to dig in deeper into the grooves of this groovy disc, but now I know why: My Gods wanted to save me being even more mad at myself, had I not been able to identify track # 1, which sounded awfully familiar, but I couldn't track it down .... but last night the light flashed and I got it. My favourite European arranger at work, and one of the greatest big bands ever, and I certainly do hear their meanin'! This is available for a mere $ 6.98 at this label's website - I got it last week, the CD transfer sounds good.

Rodney, did you dub this from LP?

- more to come, I won't peak!

Many thanks for this info, Mike - hastily correcting my records! I recorded the track from an FM broadcast way back in 1993 (before I even had an internet connection), no doubt from the original LP (Columbia 9114). I've also now ordered the CD from your source. Does it give full personnel? I don't suppose I'll get it in time. Anyway, Derek Humble on alto, Ake Persson on trombone and Sahib Shihab on baritone are right I'm pretty sure. The album is called [Now Hear Our Meanin'] whereas the tune appears to be "Now Hear My Meaning" (composed by Jimmy Woode) from what I could see.

[Stereojack]

Many thanks for this info, Mike - hastily correcting my records! I recorded the track from an FM broadcast way back in 1993 (before I even had an internet connection), no doubt from the original LP (Columbia 9114). I've also now ordered the CD from your source. Does it give full personnel? I don't suppose I'll get it in time. Anyway, Derek Humble on alto, Ake Persson on trombone and Sahib Shihab on baritone are right I'm pretty sure. The album is called [Now Hear Our Meanin'] whereas the tune appears to be "Now Hear My Meaning" (composed by Jimmy Woode) from what I could see.

You are correct on album & tunes titles (actually the tune is Now Hear My Meanin'). The personnel:

Benny Bailey, Idrees Sulieman, Jimmy Deuchar, Ahmed Muvaffak Falay, Roger Guerin, Edmund Arnie (tp), Ake Persson, Nat Peck, Erich Kleinschuster, Raymond Katarsinsky, Keg Johnson (tb), Derek Humble (as), Karl Drevo, Ronnie Scott, Billy Mitchell (ts), Sahib Shihab (bars/fl), Francy Boland (p), Jimmy Woode (b), Kenny Clarke (d), Joe Harris, Fats Sadi (perc). Recorded January 25/26, 1963, Frankfurt, Germany.

[tooter]

Many thanks for this info, Mike - hastily correcting my records! I recorded the track from an FM broadcast way back in 1993 (before I even had an internet connection), no doubt from the original LP (Columbia 9114). I've also now ordered the CD from your source. Does it give full personnel? I don't suppose I'll get it in time. Anyway, Derek Humble on alto, Ake Persson on trombone and Sahib Shihab on baritone are right I'm pretty sure. The album is called [Now Hear Our Meanin'] whereas the tune appears to be "Now Hear My Meaning" (composed by Jimmy Woode) from what I could see.

You are correct on album & tunes titles (actually the tune is Now Hear My Meanin'). The personnel:

Benny Bailey, Idrees Sulieman, Jimmy Deuchar, Ahmed Muvaffak Falay, Roger Guerin, Edmund Arnie (tp), Ake Persson, Nat Peck, Erich Kleinschuster, Raymond Katarsinsky, Keg Johnson (tb), Derek Humble (as), Karl Drevo, Ronnie Scott, Billy Mitchell (ts), Sahib Shihab (bars/fl), Francy Boland (p), Jimmy Woode (b), Kenny Clarke (d), Joe Harris, Fats Sadi (perc). Recorded January 25/26, 1963, Frankfurt, Germany.

Thanks.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I hope to post some answers tomorrow evening/Wednesday - sorry - unexpectedly busy these last couple of days! Am listening as I type however, and am really enjoying it!

One more thing before we start: nobody forget Joe Temperley, the UK bari player who took Carney's chair for a while towards the end, and is himself a wonderful player.

Mmmmm....!!!! So... Give me a number!

Thinking about Joe Temperley...I say Wynton Marsalis with the LCJO on their UK tour a few years back. In Cambridge (I don't know if he was with them for the whole tour), Marsalis got Temperley on stage to take the Harry Carney feature on Ellington's 'Sunset and the Mockingbird'. He played one of the most beautiful ballad performances I can remember seeing, received a round of applause from the band, and (for those who like their jazz macho) blew Marsalis off the stage. A really special performance

[tooter]

I hope to post some answers tomorrow evening/Wednesday - sorry - unexpectedly busy these last couple of days! Am listening as I type however, and am really enjoying it!

One more thing before we start: nobody forget Joe Temperley, the UK bari player who took Carney's chair for a while towards the end, and is himself a wonderful player.

Mmmmm....!!!! So... Give me a number!

Thinking about Joe Temperley...I say Wynton Marsalis with the LCJO on their UK tour a few years back. In Cambridge (I don't know if he was with them for the whole tour), Marsalis got Temperley on stage to take the Harry Carney feature on Ellington's 'Sunset and the Mockingbird'. He played one of the most beautiful ballad performances I can remember seeing, received a round of applause from the band, and (for those who like their jazz macho) blew Marsalis off the stage. A really special performance

Wonderful! No recording I suppose? This is good though, I think. Do you have it, Red?

Review by Scott Yanow

Joe Temperley's thick-toned baritone and swing-oriented style is heard at its best on this CD, his definitive release. Temperley's huge sound sometimes makes it seem as if he is playing a bass sax rather than a baritone, yet his fluidity is on the level of an altoist. He performs seven selections (including four Duke Ellington songs) with a talented quartet headed by pianist Brian Lemon and a six-song suite by the late trumpeter Jimmy Deuchar with an 11-piece group; the latter also features fine solos from altoist Peter King and trumpeter Gerard Presencer. The swinging music is all straight-ahead with appealing chord changes, serving as an inspiration for the underrated baritonist. Recommended.

So where is he in BFT#36 then?

[Alexander Hawkins]

I'm afraid I don't! If I'm honest, I'm not sure that I have any recordings of him...Am I imagining it, or is there one on Naxos?

As far as that Cambridge gig goes, I've no idea if they've got it on tape. I guess they might, but I've never seen any evidence of it circulating.

[Alexander Hawkins]

Is that Temperley on track 5? Big tone, for sure...recent enough recording...

[tooter]

Is that Temperley on track 5? Big tone, for sure...recent enough recording...

Joe has been around for a long time. Born in 1929!

Biography by Scott Yanow

Baritonist Joe Temperley is the perfect musician to fill in for Harry Carney during recreations of Duke Ellington's music, a role that has often overshadowed his own fine voice. Temperley actually started on the alto and recorded on tenor with English bands led by Harry Parry (1949), Jack Parnell, Tony Crombie, and Tommy Whittle. He stuck to baritone during a long association with Humphrey Lyttelton's popular band (1958-1965). In 1965, Temperley moved to New York, working with a variety of big bands (including Woody Herman, Buddy Rich, Thad Jones-Mel Lewis, and Clark Terry). In 1974, he became the first replacement for Harry Carney with the Mercer Ellington Orchestra and then freelanced with the who's who of jazz including (starting in 1990) the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra under the direction of Wynton Marsalis. Temperley has several fine albums out as a leader, most notably for the Scottish Hep label; on the centennial of Ellington's birth, he released 1999's Double Duke.

Not 5, Red. I may be letting on too much but we must be approaching the end now and it won't be too long before I put up the answers. I'm still hoping for more contributions to the discussion though - how about it?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Excuse me for horning in, when I'm not in the BFT recipient group, but if anyone wants to pursue Joe temperley's recordings, he made two very good ones with Junior Mance in Floating Jazz festivals of 1996 and 2000. They are

The music of Duke Ellington - Chiaroscuro 352

The Music of Thelonious Monk - Chiaroscuro 370

Very nice stuff indeed.

MG

[Alexander Hawkins]

Is that Temperley on track 5? Big tone, for sure...recent enough recording...

Joe has been around for a long time. Born in 1929!

Biography by Scott Yanow

Baritonist Joe Temperley is the perfect musician to fill in for Harry Carney during recreations of Duke Ellington's music, a role that has often overshadowed his own fine voice. Temperley actually started on the alto and recorded on tenor with English bands led by Harry Parry (1949), Jack Parnell, Tony Crombie, and Tommy Whittle. He stuck to baritone during a long association with Humphrey Lyttelton's popular band (1958-1965). In 1965, Temperley moved to New York, working with a variety of big bands (including Woody Herman, Buddy Rich, Thad Jones-Mel Lewis, and Clark Terry). In 1974, he became the first replacement for Harry Carney with the Mercer Ellington Orchestra and then freelanced with the who's who of jazz including (starting in 1990) the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra under the direction of Wynton Marsalis. Temperley has several fine albums out as a leader, most notably for the Scottish Hep label; on the centennial of Ellington's birth, he released 1999's Double Duke.

Not 5, Red. I may be letting on too much but we must be approaching the end now and it won't be too long before I put up the answers. I'm still hoping for more contributions to the discussion though - how about it?

I'm stumped! I was aware that Temperley had been around for a long while; but am I right in thinking he's recorded only relatively recently (the last 15 years or so)?

I think I read that biography whilst trying to pin down an answer as to which track he appears on. I hadn't realised he moved to NY and worked with all those other big bands!

I'm increasingly inrigued by track 7. I also wondered whether Temperley might be the bari on 'Centrepiece'...

[mikeweil]

Here are my comments, finally ..... burning the discs for my upcoming BFT 37 and our tax declaration keeps me busier than I thought. No peeking or whatever, just my memory.

Track 1: already posted, positively identified. Love it!!!

Track 2: The baritonist on this reminds me a little of Cecil Payne, but not enough to positively identify him. Or is this latter day Cecil? I don't know his last few albums; if it is him, he's not in peak form - he usually displays more ideas. Nice jumpy rhythm section, must be a relatively new recording, judging by the bass sound. Three stars overall.

Track 3: This has a sparing piano intro and then a brass burstout making me think of standard Basie formulas. Did Charlie Fowlkes ever take a solo? He reportedly was a good soloist - like the one here. Others are no slouches either. I wouldn't be surprised if this was in the Basie Clef Mosaic, which I still have not gotten far into - shame on me! Hmm .... the tenors don't sound like the two Franks Wess & Foster. And the pianist ..... Basie formulas, buit not necessary the Basie band .... I'm not sure. Good track - 4 1/2 stars.

Track 4: Cool white guys, eh .... Mulligan would be much too easy a guess, although this is similar. I'd say it's not him. Nice, but not quite my cup of tea.

Track 5: This player really digs in, like Pepper Adams, but it's not quite his sound, but he's pretty close - Gary Smulyan? I have three of his discs, but am too lazy to compare.

Track 6: Very nice and energetic - love the Monkish touches in the theme, but have no idea. Another 4 1/2 star track.

Track 7: From the bop era - reminds me of the Winding session with Mulligan ..... but I could be totally mislead here.

Track 8: "Centerpiece" - a little pedestrian, but otherwise nice.

Track 9: "Blue Bossa" - or rather, "Blue Samba", the way they play this. Strange sounding rhythm section - bass a little too much ahead of the others, drummer is like suspended in the air, with only snare and cymbals audible (did he not use his bass drum, or did they forget to open the microphone?). I have to admit I'm very critical about jazz players utilizing Latin rhythm like this - not enough understanding of the Brazilian roots, for my taste. Trombone is nice, soprano a little breathless and repeats himself too often in standard licks. Baritone has a nice warm but still edgy sound. Pianist doesn't sound completely at ease with this tempo - not a first class player. NMCOT.

Track 10: Some Quincy Jones chart? Very nice drummer, who has the power to push this larger band with brushes. Jimmy Cleveland blowin' da bone? Johnny Griffin! I bet this is on my wish list! Not sure about the baritone, though. It's not from Cleveland's EmArcy disc, that's certain. Great big-toned bass - I know that guy!!! Arrgh!

Like it a lot - 4 stars.

Track 11: Oh - I used to have this. As good as this sounds I'm a little surprised that I must have dispensed of this in one of my LP sales over the years. A Manny Albam arrangement, titled "Blues from neither coast" IIRC. This was in rotaition quite often. I should have kept it, 'cause I'd love to listen to the whole album again!

Track 12: Nice punchy bass drum sound - if you must play a march, do it like this! Oh - Dizzy Gillespie's "The Champ". That's a very nice tune, with that boppish urgency I love.

Track 13: Oh - I know that one! What a great idea to play part of the melody on the cymbals! Mel Lewis. A phenomenon - a drummer with the power to drive the biggest bands, and the perfect chamber jazz drummer, and the swinginest, all in one person! The knife, Pepper Adams, Duke Pearson, the master of subtle swing, and my favourite post-bop trumpeter, Thad Jones. I sold my warped LP, but still have to get a CD replacement! Five stars!

Track 14: Now that must be Mulligan, at last ...... Swingin' very hard, that is! I love him when he plays like this.

Track 15: I know that tune, but can't remember the title ..... Again, not enough authentic Latin for me.

Track 16: Authentic bop! Is this one of those Chaloff Dial sides? They're still scuffling a little with the new language - the baritone is the most fluent. Trumpet full of Dizzy-isms. I probably have that on some LP.

Very nice trip - some great baritone anthology that you've compiled - thanks a lot!

p.s. edited for some bad typo ....

Edited May 21, 2006 by mikeweil

[mikeweil]

Many thanks for this info, Mike - hastily correcting my records! I recorded the track from an FM broadcast way back in 1993 (before I even had an internet connection), no doubt from the original LP (Columbia 9114). I've also now ordered the CD from your source. Does it give full personnel? I don't suppose I'll get it in time. Anyway, Derek Humble on alto, Ake Persson on trombone and Sahib Shihab on baritone are right I'm pretty sure. The album is called [Now Hear Our Meanin'] whereas the tune appears to be "Now Hear My Meaning" (composed by Jimmy Woode) from what I could see.

You are correct on album & tunes titles (actually the tune is Now Hear My Meanin'). The personnel:

Benny Bailey, Idrees Sulieman, Jimmy Deuchar, Ahmed Muvaffak Falay, Roger Guerin, Edmund Arnie (tp), Ake Persson, Nat Peck, Erich Kleinschuster, Raymond Katarsinsky, Keg Johnson (tb), Derek Humble (as), Karl Drevo, Ronnie Scott, Billy Mitchell (ts), Sahib Shihab (bars/fl), Francy Boland (p), Jimmy Woode (b), Kenny Clarke (d), Joe Harris, Fats Sadi (perc). Recorded January 25/26, 1963, Frankfurt, Germany.

All correct, but one tune - A Ball For Othello - is from the session for the Kenny Clarke - Francy Boland Blue Note LP, with a different personnel.

[tooter]

Is that Temperley on track 5? Big tone, for sure...recent enough recording...

Joe has been around for a long time. Born in 1929!

Biography by Scott Yanow

Baritonist Joe Temperley is the perfect musician to fill in for Harry Carney during recreations of Duke Ellington's music, a role that has often overshadowed his own fine voice. Temperley actually started on the alto and recorded on tenor with English bands led by Harry Parry (1949), Jack Parnell, Tony Crombie, and Tommy Whittle. He stuck to baritone during a long association with Humphrey Lyttelton's popular band (1958-1965). In 1965, Temperley moved to New York, working with a variety of big bands (including Woody Herman, Buddy Rich, Thad Jones-Mel Lewis, and Clark Terry). In 1974, he became the first replacement for Harry Carney with the Mercer Ellington Orchestra and then freelanced with the who's who of jazz including (starting in 1990) the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra under the direction of Wynton Marsalis. Temperley has several fine albums out as a leader, most notably for the Scottish Hep label; on the centennial of Ellington's birth, he released 1999's Double Duke.

Not 5, Red. I may be letting on too much but we must be approaching the end now and it won't be too long before I put up the answers. I'm still hoping for more contributions to the discussion though - how about it?

I'm stumped! I was aware that Temperley had been around for a long while; but am I right in thinking he's recorded only relatively recently (the last 15 years or so)?

I think I read that biography whilst trying to pin down an answer as to which track he appears on. I hadn't realised he moved to NY and worked with all those other big bands!

I'm increasingly inrigued by track 7. I also wondered whether Temperley might be the bari on 'Centrepiece'...

Not Joe on 8, Red. Not too many left but all will soon be revealed. You can see the answer to 7 on the progress thread.

[tooter]

Track 1: already posted, positively identified. Love it!!!

Track 2: The baritonist on this reminds me a little of Cecil Payne, but not enough to positively identify him. Or is this latter day Cecil? I don't know his last few albums; if it is him, he's not in peak form - he usually displays more ideas. Nice jumpy rhythm section, must be a relatively new recording, judging by the bass sound. Three stars overall.

Yup - Cecil. Looking for mostly short tracks restricts the choice

Track 3: This has a sparing piano intro and then a brass burstout making me think of standard Basie formulas. Did Charlie Fowlkes ever take a solo? He reportedly was a good soloist - like the one here. Others are no slouches either. I wouldn't be surprised if this was in the Basie Clef Mosaic, which I still have not gotten far into - shame on me! Hmm .... the tenors don't sound like the two Franks Wess & Foster. And the pianist ..... Basie formulas, buit not necessary the Basie band .... I'm not sure. Good track - 4 1/2 stars.

Nothing at all on this one yet

Track 4: Cool white guys, eh .... Mulligan would be much too easy a guess, although this is similar. I'd say it's not him. Nice, but not quite my cup of tea.

Track 5: This player really digs in, like Pepper Adams, but it's not quite his sound, but he's pretty close - Gary Smulyan? I have three of his discs, but am too lazy to compare.

Yes, this is Gary all right. First i-d. He's playing a Pepper Adams tune!

Track 6: Very nice and energetic - love the Monkish touches in the theme, but have no idea. Another 4 1/2 star track.

Track 7: From the bop era - reminds me of the Winding session with Mulligan ..... but I could be totally mislead here.

Track 8: "Centerpiece" - a little pedestrian, but otherwise nice.

Track 9: "Blue Bossa" - or rather, "Blue Samba", the way they play this. Strange sounding rhythm section - bass a little too much ahead of the others, drummer is like suspended in the air, with only snare and cymbals audible (did he not use his bass drum, or did they forget to open the microphone?). I have to admit I'm very critical about jazz players utilizing Latin rhythm like this - not enough understanding of the Brazilian roots, for my taste. Trombone is nice, soprano a little breathless and repeats himself too often in standard licks. Baritone has a nice warm but still edgy sound. Pianist doesn't sound completely at ease with this tempo - not a first class player. NMCOT.

Track 10: Some Quincy Jones chart? Very nice drummer, who has the power to push this larger band with brushes. Jimmy Cleveland blowin' da bone? Johnny Griffin! I bet this is on my wish list! Not sure about the baritone, though. It's not from Cleveland's EmArcy disc, that's certain. Great big-toned bass - I know that guy!!! Arrgh!

Like it a lot - 4 stars.

JC and JG, right, but not QJ. Bass player is one of the most easily recognisable I've always thought, generally speaking - starts with an "R"!

Track 11: Oh - I used to have this. As good as this sounds I'm a little surprised that I must have dispensed of this in one of my LP sales over the years. A Manny Albam arrangement, titled "Blues from neither coast" IIRC. This was in rotaition quite often. I should have kept it, 'cause I'd love to listen to the whole album again!

Right again - Manny

Track 12: Nice punchy bass drum sound - if you must play a march, do it like this! Oh - Dizzy Gillespie's "The Champ". That's a very nice tune, with that boppish urgency I love.

Right on the tune - that's as far as we've got

Track 13: Oh - I know that one! What a great idea to play part of the melody on the cymbals! Mel Lewis. A phenomenon - a drummer with the power to drive the biggest bands, and the perfect chamber jazz drummer, and the swinginest, all in one person! The knife, Pepper Adams, Duke Pearson, the master of subtle swing, and my favourite post-bop trumpeter, Thad Jones. I sold my warped LP, but still have to get a CD replacement! Five stars!

All correct

Track 14: Now that must be Mulligan, at last ...... Swingin' very hard, that is! I love him when he plays like this.

Nope, not Mulligan

Track 15: I know that tune, but can't remember the title ..... Again, not enough authentic Latin for me.

Track 16: Authentic bop! Is this one of those Chaloff Dial sides? They're still scuffling a little with the new language - the baritone is the most fluent. Trumpet full of Dizzy-isms. I probably have that on some LP.

Serge it is

Your comments well worth the wait, Mike, thanks a lot for the contribution. I have filled in the progress thread. Not many gaps left now but still plenty of scope for more anwers overall. Time is short though

Edited May 22, 2006 by tooter

[couw]

as for track #15, there seems to be more Lady here than just the Little Old one...

>link<