AllenLowe Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 I'd be willing to bet that Max is not in the movie because he asked for some ridiculous amount of money, which was his MO from the 1990s on - I do know that this is the reason he was not in the Ken Burns Jazz series - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 and I will add that the Savoy and Verve recordings (and the McShann Deccas) certainly have good enough fidelity to have been used on the soundtrack - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 All in all "Bird" is a wreck; nothing of the true excitement of the man and his music comes through. Just the poor suffering black jazz-junkie. Even that is lame! And John Guerin's drumming? Don't ask! They could have hired Danny D'Impierio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) Get out on the wrong side of the bed, did we? I feel wonderful, Chris. Thanks for asking. Look, I'm not trolling you. I know and respect your accomplishments, but making yourself hanging judge and jury, especially of those no longer around to defend themselves is downright tasteless IMO, and certainly unnecessary. That's all I meant despite my strong language, and it stands. As far as the movie Bird itself, when it came out there was a telling roundtable discussion of it with musicians like Diz, Roy Haynes, and others I can't remember now on (the great) Gil Noble's Like it Is. They corrected some of the more romantic flights of fancy like the one where Bird importunes Gillespie to 'write this (music) down for me'. Someone, perhaps Jackie McClean, was saying how at a record date Bird asked each guy if they wanted food and starting writing something that appeared to be food orders but in fact was parts he was copying super fast. Then there was Red Rodney, who many times has stated he never felt Parker had the great knowledge attributed to him---not that it mattered. "It doesn't matter how you got it, it's what you got" I believe were his exact words. As for my own opinion, I found the movie marred by Eastwood's heavy-handed anti-drug preachments and, as observed by others here, his one-dimensional characterization of Bird as someone pitiful and sort of doomed to act out a tragedy. People that knew him would say BS. Also, as has been noted here too, Dizzy's minimal role and the abscence of Max, Miles, KD are pretty egregious sins. It's obvious though that Eastwood loved Bird and loves jazz and its musicians generally, but I think he sort off booted this one. I still enjoy it as drama and art. I liked the actor that played Rodney and was less impressed by Whittaker (though I am a fan generally) and Venora's work. I think they sort of were done in by the soapsuds in the script. It's weird, but Eastwood in this case reminds me of how I feel about Spike Lee: best at capturing/romanticizing the atmospheric sights and sounds of an era. The 52nd Street themes were stunning to look at. Edited July 3, 2006 by fasstrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Just which side of the bed is the wrong one, anyway? And what happens if you get out of bed at the foot end? Is that a potential wrong side, or does the triangulation thing sorta negate the potentiality for wrong-sidedness? You know, does two sides plus a foot sorta form a pyramid of bedness and therefore create a powerful field of positive energiness? These are the things I'm worried about these days, having figured out most of the other shit. Any informed and/or constructive information would certainly be welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 When I met Monty Alexander a couple of years ago I asked him about “playing with Bird.” He said it was a real thrill for him and that all the musicians on the project really had a good time. I dig the soundtrack (although I could do without the "piped-in" audience noise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted July 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Incredible... So, how did I end up enjoying this movie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Did Parker really die in Baroness Nica's apartment? I seem to remember hearing that Horace Silver wrote "Nica's Dream" with this event in mind. True??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) well, I doubt that about Nica's dream, but maybe someone else knows more - as per the 52nd street locations looking real, well, Dan Morgenstern, who was there, said the Bird sets were "more Bourbon Street than 52nd Street" - Edited July 3, 2006 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medjuck Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 But .. MEDJUCK!! Where are you? .. No one is better equipped to answer this question than you are. Tell us why some films are made, and others are not! Well this one got made because Clint wanted to make it. He's known for working efficiently and most of his films are very profitable. Warners has let him do whatever he wants for a couple of decades. This script sat around for ages before he got involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Incredible... So, how did I end up enjoying this movie? Perhaps for the same reasons I enjoyed Ken Burns' Civil War and Baseball series: I did not know enough about the subjects to detect (and be bothered by) the many errors and omissions. It was different when I saw his Jazz series--that opened my eyes to his sloppy approach, so I went back and read reviews of the other programs--sure enough, I had missed the flaws. Guess ignorance can be bliss. Note to "fasstrack": Do you find bisexuality to be demeaning? That's the impression I get from reading your remark re an old Diz post of mine. I don't recall that specific post, but it was certainly not meant to be a criticism of any sort. Hope you haven't read my biography of Bessie Smith--in it, I mention her bisexuality--should I bow my head in shame? Perhaps we all ought to stick our head in the mud and pretend that there is not a real world out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Just which side of the bed is the wrong one, anyway? And what happens if you get out of bed at the foot end? Is that a potential wrong side, or does the triangulation thing sorta negate the potentiality for wrong-sidedness? You know, does two sides plus a foot sorta form a pyramid of bedness and therefore create a powerful field of positive energiness? These are the things I'm worried about these days, having figured out most of the other shit. Any informed and/or constructive information would certainly be welcome! Don't know about the foot end, but people waking up on the wrong side usually miss the floor with their feet. Instead they wind up in their mouths..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) Note to "fasstrack": Do you find bisexuality to be demeaning? That's the impression I get from reading your remark re an old Diz post of mine. I don't recall that specific post, but it was certainly not meant to be a criticism of any sort. Hope you haven't read my biography of Bessie Smith--in it, I mention her bisexuality--should I bow my head in shame? Perhaps we all ought to stick our head in the mud and pretend that there is not a real world out there! It's not the point, Chris. It's not your call IMO to 'out' anyone, especially someone not around any more. People's sexuality is their own affair and none of my business unless they make it so. And c'mon, your negative comments re Chan had nothing to do with her sex life. No, I didn't read your bio on Bessie, but remember your liner notes and a '70s show on BAI here in the Big Mango. I have no issue with you as a writer, jazz or record industry persona. On the contrary. You are quite an accomplished and insightful man and friend of music. I don't know you, nor you me. It does seem from your posts that you are a glass-is-half-empty kind of guy sometimes. I can relate, since there are a lot of things to be drug about. But since I'm a musician I find I may not be able to do much about the things that displease me but I can do more good lifting someone's spirits or making them think in an hour playing---that's if and when I'm in focus---than tilting at all the windmills (or windbags) in the world. I have no illusions, but it just might help someone think better thoughts. Life is short and music beautiful. That's not nihilism to me, but using one's talents as John Stuart Mill might have suggested. But do your thing, Chris. I made my point, you made yours, and we're both big boys. I won't press this any further. Edited July 3, 2006 by fasstrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 If I "outed" Diz, it was only to those who didn't already know. Be that as it may, your point re our exchange is well taken. So the pressing stops here, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest youmustbe Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 I don't have that problem...my bed is against the wall so I can only get up on one side, the right/wrong side...ying/yang, positive/negative, and all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 If I "outed" Diz, it was only to those who didn't already know. well, you "outed" PeeWee Marquette as being female and no one else seemed to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 If I "outed" Diz, it was only to those who didn't already know. well, you "outed" PeeWee Marquette as being female and no one else seemed to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheldonm Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) Incredible... So, how did I end up enjoying this movie? I enjoyed it as well! Not because I thought it was a masterpiece, I just enjoyed it. m~ Edited July 3, 2006 by sheldonm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 This script sat around for ages before he got involved. Indeed. When the WB box set of the Dial sides was released, it was in preparation for a "forthcoming" biopic starring Richard Pryor. This was in the mid/late 1970s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 If I "outed" Diz, it was only to those who didn't already know. Be that as it may, your point re our exchange is well taken. So the pressing stops here, too. Thanks for being a gentleman, good sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) Having read several book about Bird and having listened to his music, I enjoyed the movie but took it with the appropriate dose of salt. To throw in some comparison: The Bird movie may be more realistic than the Amadeus movie in comparison to the respective real lives, however they were ..... in the end, it's just a movie, and I doubt it changed much of Bird's image outside or inside the "jazz world". p.s. But I must give credit to Clint Eastwood for bringing a considerable amount of jazz into the movies. Perhaps that's the most important aspect. Edited July 3, 2006 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) If I "outed" Diz, it was only to those who didn't already know. well, you "outed" PeeWee Marquette as being female and no one else seemed to know. We have some funny MFs here. I once threatened Donald Duck with blackmail and presented pictures of him in compromising positions with Huey. Lived high on the hog for a minute at that. Oh, wait, scratch that---I think that was another Huey and Donald the FBI agent...... Damn. Another middle-aged moment Edited July 3, 2006 by fasstrack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 This script sat around for ages before he got involved. Indeed. When the WB box set of the Dial sides was released, it was in preparation for a "forthcoming" biopic starring Richard Pryor. This was in the mid/late 1970s. Several years, lifetimes, and brain cells ago (1973) I was a mail boy-messenger at MCA Universal. A project was broached to make Ross Russell's then-current book a movie. Lou Donaldson's name came up as a possible choice to play Bird because of not only the sonic but physical similarities. Anyway, we see where that idea went..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 (edited) The Bird movie may be more realistic than the Amadeus movie in comparison to the respective real lives, You mean Amadeus wasn't realistic either ??!!? Edited July 3, 2006 by Harold_Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 The Bird movie may be more realistic than the Amadeus movie in comparison to the respective real lives, You mean Amadeus wasn't realistic either ??!!? It's still an amazing film... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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