The Brick and Mortar Disappointment Thread

[Ed S]

I'm going to see the Fabulous Thunderbirds tomorrow night. I'm familiar with some of their stuff and have the live album done around 2001 but was wondering what else they've been up to lately. So I went to their website and saw that they released a new disc last year. Based on some review I've read, it's their best since before they hit it big with Tuff Enuff, bla bla bla. So I decided to head out to my nearest brick and mortar for some instant gratification on the way home from work.

It's a Borders and it has about the biggest selection of music in the area in spite of the entire music dept having been shrunk in the past year during a major remodeling. Well, their Blues section is abyssmal. I thought jazz was bad. The New Age section was bigger. There's no spot for Fabulous Thunderbirds at all, not even in the alphabetical section. So I tried rock and sure enuff - there's a slot for Fabulous Thunderbirds, but nothing there. I did find a greatest hits collection out of order a couple of slots later. So then I figure I'll pick up something by Jimmie Vaughan. Yes I know he's not in the band. I saw some links and reviews for his latest while cruising around the Thunderbirds allmusic bio. Sounded appealling.

Go to the Blues. No Jimmie Vaughan section. No Stevie Ray either - so I head over to rock. Of course Stevie is there but no Jimmie Vaughan section. Nothing. Nada.

These guys aren't exactly flying under the radar. Plus, you'd think that some buyer might check out who's coming to town and have at least a couple of these in stock. Am I wrong or are the Fabulous Thunderbirds sort of, um, well known. Plus they are playing in a free concert in a Tuesday in the park sort of thing that routinely draws between 5,000 - 10,000 people.

I guess I should not be that surprised, but jeez - I am pretty disappointed.

[Chuck Nessa]

Go to the Blues. No Jimmie Vaughan section. No Stevie Ray either - so I head over to rock.

Gotta admit I'm kinda "heartened" by that info.

[GA Russell]

Berrigan and Vibes would know better than I do, but I'm under the impression that the Music Department managers of big box chain stores don't get to order CDs in anticipation of an expected boost from a local concert. I think the buying decisions are made at the corporate headquarters.

I could be wrong.

edit for typo

Edited August 14, 2006 by GA Russell

[Ed S]

Berrigan and Vibes would know better than I do, but I'm under the impression that the Music Department managers of big box chain stores don't get to order CDs in anticipation of an expected boost from a local concert. I think the buying decisions are made at the corporate headquarters.

I could be wrong.

edit for typo

You're probably spot on. But that's the kind of thinking and way of operating that's helping to kill the b and m's in my opinion.

What I did not mention is that I went out of my way on my way home to stop at a second music store - a local outfit called Record Theatre. They used to be THE place to buy music in the Buffalo area and are the kind of place where you'd think you'd find the Fabulous Thunderbirds or Jimmie Vaughan somewhere - rock or blues. But nothing at all by either artist in either section.

Lots of wasted gas and plenty disappointed.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Ed Swinnich

[Dmitry]

I started looking at from another perspective some time ago. It's a bit akin to consumer goods - I am sure there isn't a plethora of stores around where you live that sell numerous variants of Zegna suits, Loeffler Randall shoes or the Quattroporte automobiles. If you lived in a major city, you would have all of those and decent music stores too.

As it stands, we can order anything on the internet, including any kind of esotheric, non-mainstream music any time of the day. That's a hell of a lot better than it used to be. The closest store next to me is Walmart, but I got anything I want at my fingertips. And that makes me pretty happy.

[Chuck Nessa]

What I did not mention is that I went out of my way on my way home to stop at a second music store - a local outfit called Record Theatre. They used to be THE place to buy music in the Buffalo area and are the kind of place where you'd think you'd find the Fabulous Thunderbirds or Jimmie Vaughan somewhere - rock or blues. But nothing at all by either artist in either section.

Lots of wasted gas and plenty disappointed.

Back in my retail days, Record Theatre was owned by a "one-stop/rack jobber" in Albany. They supplied all the inventory at their whim back in the '70s. Can't imagine it is much different now.

[ghost of miles]

Berrigan and Vibes would know better than I do, but I'm under the impression that the Music Department managers of big box chain stores don't get to order CDs in anticipation of an expected boost from a local concert. I think the buying decisions are made at the corporate headquarters.

I could be wrong.

edit for typo

You're not. Once upon a time, though (at least at the Borders where I was a music dpt. manager, and I'm pretty sure it was like this at other stores), we were allowed to do one-stop special orders about once a week, and we frequently stocked up on coming-to-town titles. However, my understanding is that that ability to special-order through one-stops was curtailed and/or eliminated several years ago.

[Ed S]

What I did not mention is that I went out of my way on my way home to stop at a second music store - a local outfit called Record Theatre. They used to be THE place to buy music in the Buffalo area and are the kind of place where you'd think you'd find the Fabulous Thunderbirds or Jimmie Vaughan somewhere - rock or blues. But nothing at all by either artist in either section.

Lots of wasted gas and plenty disappointed.

Back in my retail days, Record Theatre was owned by a "one-stop/rack jobber" in Albany. They supplied all the inventory at their whim back in the '70s. Can't imagine it is much different now.

I'm not sure what a "one stop/jack robber" is, but I'm guessing it is not complimentary. That being said, the store always had tons of the kind of stuff I was interested in buying back in my younger days. These days, the stores pretty much suck. I can't believe they are still in business. The views of both then and now are of course strictly through the eyes of an uneducated consumer who is unaware of what shenanigans might have been going on behind the scenes.

[Ed S]

I started looking at from another perspective some time ago. It's a bit akin to consumer goods - I am sure there isn't a plethora of stores around where you live that sell numerous variants of Zegna suits, Loeffler Randall shoes or the Quattroporte automobiles. If you lived in a major city, you would have all of those and decent music stores too.

As it stands, we can order anything on the internet, including any kind of esotheric, non-mainstream music any time of the day. That's a hell of a lot better than it used to be. The closest store next to me is Walmart, but I got anything I want at my fingertips. And that makes me pretty happy.

Can't argue with that. The other side of my disappointing experience is how grateful I am for internet CD stores.

[Alexander]

I don't know if things have changed in the last few years, but when I was Music Mgr at B&N, I was given a pretty free hand when it came to ordering. I had a few contacts at corperate who were inclined to listen to me and to let me have anything I asked for. I always ordered extra stock for when a big concert came to town. I also would order extra titles for R&R Hall of Fame inductees, major artists who died, and pretty much anything else I could think of. I was given three extra tables that the book floor didn't want, and I made good use of them. One was turned into a perminent display area for local artists (I'd change the display once a month or so). The other two were used to promote anybody I felt like promoting. I'd also often cross-merch with the book floor. I'd order in a bunch of books on Miles Davis as well as several Miles CDs and make a big display. I had the power to put "staff recommendations" on sale for 10% off, and I'd use this power to discount anything I put on display. I was proud of the fact that MY music department looked different from every other store in the chain, and that I was promoting backlist items. Often, stuff would sell off of my displays, although there were times that nothing seemed to move at all. I once did a Johnny Cash display (around the time "American IV" came out) that did *nothing* at all. I found this ironic after Cash died and suddenly the stores couldn't get displays put up fast enough. Yes, I was actually trying to honor a great artist while he was still ALIVE and nobody paid attention.

One time, I ordered in a bunch of Clash CDs to display. No reason. Just felt like promoting the Clash. Everybody who saw the display asked me if someone in the group had died, to which I answered: "No. Do we really need a reason to celebrate great music?" The CDs didn't sell, and I took the display down. A few weeks later, Joe Strummer died. I put the display back up, and the CDs sold out within a couple of days.

Needless to say, my methods didn't sit well with the district manager. Everytime he'd stop by, he'd complain that my department was full of "unsanctioned" displays. I used to joke that the DM had a rare ocular disorder that prevented him from seeing anything that wasn't on the planner. He'd just see a big void. That explained why every time he'd see one of my displays, he point to it and ask "What's that?"

"It's a display." I'd say.

"Is it on the planner?" He'd ask.

"No," I'd reply, "But it's doing well. A lot of stuff has sold off of it."

"But it's not on the planner."

"No. It's not."

"You can't put up unauthorised displays. Take it down."

I wonder why I got fired?

[Chuck Nessa]

I'm not sure what a "one stop/jack robber" is, but I'm guessing it is not complimentary.

A "one stop" is between a distributor and a retail store if the store doesn't do enough business to "earn" an account with a distributor/label. Most indie stores buy from one stops. A rack jobber is a one stop with connections to put "product" in non music stores such as drug stores, dept stores, etc. All worthy enterprises in the day.

[Aggie87]

Am I wrong or are the Fabulous Thunderbirds sort of, um, well known.

I don't think they're that big in the eye of the general public. Basically a two hit wonder back in the 80's (Wrap It Up and Tuff Enuff). I think they lost alot of people's interest after Jimmie Vaughan left, too, as that was a large part of their appeal...."SRV's brother's band".

I'd guess the only thing your normal B&M would even consider stocking by these guys is a compilation.

Edited August 15, 2006 by Aggie87

[Dan Gould]

In the 80's, I introduced a friend to a lot of

experimental music based labels that he grew to love.

A few years later, he became a buyer for a local Borders store.

After many months of frustration in dealing with

management types telling him what to order and not, he quit.

I came in one day after he'd been gone for a few weeks

and noticed an incredible sale on a bunch of stuff that I was sure

came from North Country - Hat Arts, FMPs, et al. at $5.99!

When I got to the front counter to pay for my large stash

of goodies, this good-ol'-boy in a big western hat behind the counter

said, "Well, it's about time someone was buyin' that crap!"

I said, "Oh?" He then went into a tirade about this "jazz idiot" they had hired

who bought all of "this useless crap."

Rod, there's a reason why those labels sell through North Country more than anything else. In the tiny jazz universe, the "experimental music" segment sells, what? Maybe .05% out of the 3% that jazz used to sell? How can any major retailer like a Borders be expected to stock that? I wouldn't appreciate the tirade about "jazz idiot" (being one myself) but otherwise, who can possibly blame the company for canning a buyer who makes purchasing decisions like that?

[Ed S]

I'm not sure what a "one stop/jack robber" is, but I'm guessing it is not complimentary.

A "one stop" is between a distributor and a retail store if the store doesn't do enough business to "earn" an account with a distributor/label. Most indie stores buy from one stops. A rack jobber is a one stop with connections to put "product" in non music stores such as drug stores, dept stores, etc. All worthy enterprises in the day.

Thanks!

[Dan Gould]

I'm not sure what a "one stop/jack robber" is, but I'm guessing it is not complimentary.

A "one stop" is between a distributor and a retail store if the store doesn't do enough business to "earn" an account with a distributor/label. Most indie stores buy from one stops. A rack jobber is a one stop with connections to put "product" in non music stores such as drug stores, dept stores, etc. All worthy enterprises in the day.

Thanks!

And I think that some of those stores that do have enough business to 'earn' an account with a distributor/label may still use "one stops" for special orders. Witness Sally's Place in Westport CT.

[Ed S]

Am I wrong or are the Fabulous Thunderbirds sort of, um, well known.

I don't think they're that big in the eye of the general public. Basically a two hit wonder back in the 80's (Wrap It Up and Tuff Enuff). I think they lost alot of people's interest after Jimmie Vaughan left, too, as that was a large part of their appeal...."SRV's brother's band".

I'd guess the only thing your normal B&M would even consider stocking by these guys is a compilation.

I suppose.......and your point is borne out by my experience today.

[paul secor]

Go to the Blues. No Jimmie Vaughan section. No Stevie Ray either - so I head over to rock.

Gotta admit I'm kinda "heartened" by that info.

[BruceH]

Berrigan and Vibes would know better than I do, but I'm under the impression that the Music Department managers of big box chain stores don't get to order CDs in anticipation of an expected boost from a local concert. I think the buying decisions are made at the corporate headquarters.

I could be wrong.

edit for typo

You're not. Once upon a time, though (at least at the Borders where I was a music dpt. manager, and I'm pretty sure it was like this at other stores), we were allowed to do one-stop special orders about once a week, and we frequently stocked up on coming-to-town titles. However, my understanding is that that ability to special-order through one-stops was curtailed and/or eliminated several years ago.

That strikes me as pretty damn stupid.

[chris olivarez]

The Brick and Mortar in Pagosa is good about special orders and the Brick and Mortar in Durango has a fairly decent selection. Both have good people in them-not pea brained cowboy redneck morons or corporate thugs. The only problem is they both sell at list and for somebody like me who frequently buys in volume that simply doesn't work so I buy primarily online. I feel terribly guilty about that but that's just how it is.

[JSngry]

Good point, Rod. In the old days, my choice of stores to frequent was based entirely on the liklihood that I'd find something "off the beaten path" (musically or label-wise). And when I bought the "mainstream" titles, either on a whim or with intent, I'd buy them there too, just because I was in the habit of shopping there.

Now that everybody's got the same stock (or less), I know what I'm going to find. so I stay home and shop online. And I use the same criteria - what online store is going to provide me w/ready access to those more obscure items? The ones who don't, I stay away from.

Those of us with an interest in more "esoteric" and/or "underground" musics do indeed make up a minescule percentage of the overall buying population. But it's a mistake to think that most of us only buy that type product, or tha we buy only in small quantity. A store not stocking Henry Threadgill means that I'll not buy any Miles Davis from them. And anyway you cut it, that's some sales they lose. Probably a net loss to them actually, becasue there's a helluva lot more Miles product, current & upcoming, than there is Threadgill. Don't stock one item and lose 3 or 4 sales. Does that make sense over the long haul?

The old days are gone, mostly, and I'll miss them, but not enough to be deterred. Cyberspace has enough vendors who understand the "big picture" well enough that I can still spend my money freely and gladly.

Dammit.

[JSngry]

I guess it's a matter of defining the "loss-leader" concept. You can offer me Monk?Trane Carnegie Hall for $1.99 and if I don't ever go into your store, what does it get you from me? At best, just a $1.99 sale, at a loss to you. Congratulations, sucker.

If, otoh, you got some, say, Odean Pope CIMPs in the store for a fair price, you get those sales plus the Monk?Trane Carnegie Hall at whatever sale price you have it on for. Then you make money off of me. My pleasure, actually.

Obviously, the model will out of necessity vary from city to city, and from store to store, but an urban store that positions itself as a "go to" place for "good music" should take these things into consideration. They used to, and now, I don't think that they do, generally speaking. Is that the entire reason why they're floundering? No, of course not. But it's definitely a factor. If you have a diverse enough consumer base, then diversity is a strength. Play to it!