Guy Berger Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 I'm listening to the April 12, 1970 gig by the Miles Davis sextet at the Fillmore West. (Two days after Black Beauty was recorded.) Steve Grossman plays a really nice tenor solo on "Directions", maybe the only one I've heard from his tenure on Miles. His soprano playing during this period doesn't do much for me aside from "texture". It's too bad Miles was so fixated on the soprano during this period! Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Grossman's on record as feeling much the same way. He wanted to play tenor, but Miles wanted mostly soprano. So, here comes Gary Bartz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Weiss Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Grossman's on record as feeling much the same way. He wanted to play tenor, but Miles wanted mostly soprano. So, here comes Gary Bartz! Playing... alto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 i don't generally like steve grossman as a player but i really enjoy his solo albums "some shapes to come" and "terra firma". yes i don't like the stone alliance discs but these two solo discs are stone alliance plus jan hammer. funny how much hammer adds to the preceedings i guess. don alias plays some hard funky drums on especially "some shapes...". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 How's that Elvin Lighthouse LP? He plays tenor exclusively on that, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) I've encountered several instances of Grossman on tenor with Miles that have not made it to released versions, either the date is not released or the tenor solo has been excised. Good playing . . . I agree it's a shame that the soprano was so emphasised in these bands (Bartz played plenty soprano as well) but I think the idea was to be more "guitar like" than a tenor would be. I sometimes DO get into Grossman's soprano. . . . Edited August 28, 2006 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 How's that Elvin Lighthouse LP? He plays tenor exclusively on that, no? Fabulous recording. The whole thing makes up the last two CD's of the Elvin Jones Mosaic set. Mainly tenor, yes. Exclusively, I can't recall, and don't have the set here in front of me. Liebman is superb, too. A great example of two tenors utilizing the lessons and vocabulary of 'Trane in a very positive way, five years after his death, and after the dust had settled down, so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Grossman's on record as feeling much the same way. He wanted to play tenor, but Miles wanted mostly soprano. So, here comes Gary Bartz! Playing... alto Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makpjazz57 Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 I've been a fan of Grossman's ever since getting to hear him live in NYC in the 80's - one place was, I think the Grand Street Bar in Soho and the other was a night to remember - Grossman and Clarence "C Sharpe" on alto at Mikell's on the upper west side. Two of my favorite recordings where I think Grossman really shines are: the one he did with the McCoy Tyner Trio, Live at Sweet Basil's and the one he did with Barry Harris. Then again, he did a nice LP recording with the Cedar Walton trio - now I'll have to look and see if that is out on CD! I also have a video of a television performance of Grossman's at the New Morning club in Paris from around 1990/91. That's the last I heard of Grossman. I know he was here in the states a few years ago (does he still live in Italy)? Not living near NYC anymore, I'm sadly out of touch and would have done my best to get to NY had I known Grossman would be performing there. Marla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) Steve Grosman still lives in Italy, although I'm not sure if he is in the best of health. Edited August 28, 2006 by marcello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.L.M Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) I don't know if he lives in ITALY as this FESTIVAL DI PARIGI means FESTIVAL DE PARIS (PARIS, FRANCE). The 2000 edition as it seems. What's the problem with his health according to the photo? That he has get older? I'm afraid that's a sickness than nobody can escape from. Edited August 28, 2006 by P.L.M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 Mr. Grossman was not always in the "best of health" even in his youth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 How's that Elvin Lighthouse LP? He plays tenor exclusively on that, no? Fabulous recording. The whole thing makes up the last two CD's of the Elvin Jones Mosaic set. Mainly tenor, yes. Exclusively, I can't recall, and don't have the set here in front of me. Liebman is superb, too. A great example of two tenors utilizing the lessons and vocabulary of 'Trane in a very positive way, five years after his death, and after the dust had settled down, so to speak. OK, you sold it to me - now I just gotta go back to the store and buy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 How's that Elvin Lighthouse LP? He plays tenor exclusively on that, no? Fabulous recording. The whole thing makes up the last two CD's of the Elvin Jones Mosaic set. Mainly tenor, yes. Exclusively, I can't recall, and don't have the set here in front of me. Liebman is superb, too. A great example of two tenors utilizing the lessons and vocabulary of 'Trane in a very positive way, five years after his death, and after the dust had settled down, so to speak. There's some soprano on 'Fancy Free', but I can't remember if it's just Liebman. The entire set is almost all double tenors, which Elvin did better than anyone. Farrell, Coleman, Liebman, Grossman.... The Mosaic is spectacular, and somehow still in print many years later, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 (edited) I don't know if he lives in ITALY as this FESTIVAL DI PARIGI means FESTIVAL DE PARIS (PARIS, FRANCE). The 2000 edition as it seems. What's the problem with his health according to the photo? That he has get older? I'm afraid that's a sickness than nobody can escape from. I'm told that he splits his time between Italy and France. The photo was not meant to be proof of his health, but the latest one that I could find on the web. I spoke to a Italian saxophonist last year, who is close to Grossman, and when I inquired how he was getting along I was told that he has his health struggles. And yes, as you age the more health problems you can have, of course. Edited August 29, 2006 by marcello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 It is my sense that Steve Grossman's playing changed quite a bit after his time with Miles. In his earlier playing he struck me as a serious Coltrane oriented player. I really didn't care much for what I heard from him with Miles or with Elvin either. He seemed to lack a voice of his own. His 7 CDs on Dreyfus with Barry Harris, Cedar Walton,Willy Pickins, McCoy Tyner, Michel Petrucciani, the trio date, and the one with Johnny Griffin and Michael Weiss are another matter altogether. He plays tenor on almost everything and has a bigger sound with a strong Sonny Rollins influence. Based on his playing on these Dreyfus recordings plus some other things I have heard from him post-Miles, I have become a big fan of Grossman's tenor playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 I've been a fan of Grossman's ever since getting to hear him live in NYC in the 80's - one place was, I think the Grand Street Bar in Soho and the other was a night to remember - Grossman and Clarence "C Sharpe" on alto at Mikell's on the upper west side. Two of my favorite recordings where I think Grossman really shines are: the one he did with the McCoy Tyner Trio, Live at Sweet Basil's and the one he did with Barry Harris. Then again, he did a nice LP recording with the Cedar Walton trio - now I'll have to look and see if that is out on CD! I also have a video of a television performance of Grossman's at the New Morning club in Paris from around 1990/91. That's the last I heard of Grossman. I know he was here in the states a few years ago (does he still live in Italy)? Not living near NYC anymore, I'm sadly out of touch and would have done my best to get to NY had I known Grossman would be performing there. Marla Is the recording with the McCoy Tyner Trio under Grossman's name or McCoy's? I've never heard of it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 KH1958 it is under Steve Grossman's name as follows. Steve Grossman - In New York - Dreyfus 191 087-2 with McCoy Tyner, Avery Sharpe, Art Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 KH1958 it is under Steve Grossman's name as follows. Steve Grossman - In New York - Dreyfus 191 087-2 with McCoy Tyner, Avery Sharpe, Art Taylor Thanks. Another one for the mental list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted August 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 I've been listening to all three of the bootlegged Fillmore West shows (4/9, 4/11, 4/12) and I'll be damned if Black Beauty wasn't the runt of the litter! Even without Wayne this was a great band. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 I came across this recent image of Steve Grossman. He looks real good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Clugston Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 Grossman plays some nice tenor on the Fillmore East gig with Miles. Too bad it was all cut out of the resulting live album. I wish those concerts would be issued in full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 I saw him live back then with Stone Alliance - quite a bit of heavily engaged tenor, no soprano that night. Some of his solos on the PM Records LPs of this band and on his own records are among the most energetic tenor I ever heard. He was deeply into late Coltrane back then, but I liked that much better than the Rollins influence that showed after his move to France. I'd sure go see him if he played somewhere around here ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 (edited) I've always been a fan and heard great personality in his playing, even if the heavy influence of Trane and, later, Sonny, were always on the surface. That shift from a Trane aesthetic to Sonny has always fascinated me. Did Grossman grow up enamored with Trane, the tenor of the moment, rejecting Sonny as too beboppy and old-fashioned, and then later in maturity change his mind? Or did he swallow Rollins whole as a kid but then subliminate the influence for a long time. For me, Grossman's best latter day playing is on "Love Is The Thing" (Red) with an incomparably suave trio of Cedar Walton, David Williams, Billy Higgins. http://www.amazon.com/Love-Thing-Steve-Gro...0340&sr=8-3 The orientation is more Rollins than Trane, but lots of the playing also strikes a very rewarding balance between the poles and it all still sounds like Grossman to me, starting with that distinctively raspy violence in his tone. "Easy to Love" is remarkably inspired, from the limber way he phrases the melody to the melodic-rhythmic rhyme and wit during his solo (very Sonnyish). In a way, that solo has always reminded me of George Coleman's note-perfect solo on "Stella" on Miles' "My Funny Valentine" -- two journeymen tenors rising to incredible peak in a single concentrated improvisation. On a related topic, Liebman and Grossman's solos have been transcribed in a "Lighthouse Omnibook." http://www.lighthouseomnibook.com/Main.shtml Great record, too. Edited September 26, 2008 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 26, 2008 Report Share Posted September 26, 2008 I've always been a fan and heard great personality in his playing, even if the heavy influence of Trane and, later, Sonny, were always on the surface. That shift from a Trane aesthetic to Sonny has always fascinated me. Did Grossman grow up enamored with Trane, the tenor of the moment, rejecting Sonny as too beboppy and old-fashioned, and then later in maturity change his mind? Or did he swallow Rollins whole as a kid but then subliminate the influence for a long time. The story I've heard is that Grossman was playing like Bird by age 15. Iuse to think that Stone Alliance-era Grossman was all Trane, but going back to it, I now hear the underlying Rollins influence as well. It's subtle, but it's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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