So, you don't any Bird eh......

[JSngry]

I envy those of you that have the Spotlite issues on vinyl.

Would you envy me if I told you I had one of the Warner Brothers LP boxes?

Same thing, I think, only it's a box set. And "fancier". And we all know how much better music is when it comes in a fancy box set.

[Harold_Z]

I envy those of you that have the Spotlite issues on vinyl.

Would you envy me if I told you I had one of the Warner Brothers LP boxes?

Same thing, I think, only it's a box set. And "fancier". And we all know how much better music is when it comes in a fancy box set.

...............MAnnnnnnn!

Woulda, shoulda, coulda!

[medjuck]

Did that second Ember live-Bird set ever come out? Probably would've covered the date you're talking about...

I think it came out and was a 2 disc set which included some broadcasts from Cafe Society as well. But the original Ember 4 disc set of the Birdland material is amongst Bird's best.

I'm curious: has anyone heard any Parker recordings they think are not worth having (for musical, not sound, reasons. ) Even the notorious Lover Man session on Dial has always seemed pretty interesting to me-- though maybe only for biographical reasons. If it were the only Bird available what would we think of him?

[Big Beat Steve]

Even the notorious Lover Man session on Dial has always seemed pretty interesting to me-- though maybe only for biographical reasons. If it were the only Bird available what would we think of him?

Maybe a bit like what's been written about Ernie Henry?

Lots of promise that remained unfulfilled because he died prematurely and his few records showed him fumbling here and there because he apparently hadn't gotten his act together yet.

[Big Al]

Hey, I saw a 10-CD box of Charlie Parker from a label called Past Perfect. Anyone know about this? Is it worth getting? It's only $30, so that tells me it's too good to be true. Or is it?

[marcello]

Even the notorious Lover Man session on Dial has always seemed pretty interesting to me-- though maybe only for biographical reasons. If it were the only Bird available what would we think of him?

Maybe a bit like what's been written about Ernie Henry?

Lots of promise that remained unfulfilled because he died prematurely and his few records showed him fumbling here and there because he apparently hadn't gotten his act together yet.

I don't think so. He had already made a huge impact on the music , and had recorded:

Salt Peanuts

Shaw 'Nuff

Hot House

Billie's Bounce

Now's the Time

Ko-ko

Dizzy Atmosphere

Groovin' High

Red Cross

Moose the Mooche

Yardbird Suite

Ornithology

Those alone are enough.

Edited November 29, 2006 by marcello

[jazzbo]

Hey, I saw a 10-CD box of Charlie Parker from a label called Past Perfect. Anyone know about this? Is it worth getting? It's only $30, so that tells me it's too good to be true. Or is it?

I haven't heard it, or other Past Perfect boxes, but I've heard a few single discs. Sound quality was decent. This is likely a good, well priced intro to a lot of Bird sides, may do the ttick for you.

[AllenLowe]

the most interesting, to me, "live" Bird things are the OJCs where he frequently bursts into the upper register and basically splits notes and stops playing, as though he's hit some kind of celestial altissimo range - this, IMHO, is the Bird who is frustrated with basic tonality, trying to find a way out (you'll have to listen through to find these, but as I recall one of them is Bird at St. Nick's) - I have a feeling he was high and happy for these and feeling expansive. The whole search for the altisimmo range (and I don't think I am spelling that word correctly) was really an early search for freedom, as has been pointed out to me by a few older '50s players (particularly Dave Schildkraut who basically told me that Bird was fascinated by the possibilities and told him so, and that Dave himself was working on playing up there, and that Coltrane discussed with Dave the importance of control in that register and expressed an understanding that they were both working on controlling it - also, Teo Macero is another who was looking in that direction) -

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Hey, I saw a 10-CD box of Charlie Parker from a label called Past Perfect. Anyone know about this? Is it worth getting? It's only $30, so that tells me it's too good to be true. Or is it?

I haven't heard it, or other Past Perfect boxes, but I've heard a few single discs. Sound quality was decent. This is likely a good, well priced intro to a lot of Bird sides, may do the ttick for you.

If you do wind up getting that box, Al, you might find this little story helpful.

B B King, in his autobiography, "Blues all around me", wrote that one evening, Dizzy Gillespie (who was a friend of B's), couldn't get Bird to the gig as usual, because Dizzy had something else to do. So he asked B B King to be Bird's chauffeur. King was reminiscing with Bird about when he'd seen him with the McShann band in Indianola. "I'm a blues player B," said Bird. "We're all blues players. It's just that we hear blues in different ways. The day we get away from blues is the day we'll stop making sense."

MG

[BERIGAN]

Hey, I saw a 10-CD box of Charlie Parker from a label called Past Perfect. Anyone know about this? Is it worth getting? It's only $30, so that tells me it's too good to be true. Or is it?

Al, haven't heard this one either, but I have their Ellington and Basie sets, and sound certainly is acceptable on those sets.

[Big Al]

Alrighty then; I think that'll do the trick!

[montg]

Interesting thread, one I seem to have missed seeing until tonight.

When I first heard Parker, all I was hearing was a ton of notes flying by, almost like someone practicing playing notes in a scale as quickly as possible. Some time later, I picked up a secondhand book by Martin Williams ("Where's the Melody?") that helped me begin to 'get' Parker. His advice sounds kind of simplistic on the surface I guess, but it helped me:

"As I say, I don't think that when we listen to Charlie Parker's Embraceable You we should necessarily listen beneath Parker's improvised melody for Gershwin's outline. The outline is Parker's guide, not necessarily the listener's , and the main point is the melody Parker is making, whatever his guide"

" When we remember that Parker...was a player and did his 'composing' as he played, by improvisation, then we realize how astonishing his achievement was...Where's the melody? The melody is the one the player is making. Hear it well for it probably will not exist again. And it may well be extraordinary.

TO catch the melodic--and rhythmic-- genuis, I have to attend pretty closely, but if I can get in the moment with Parker and try to keep up with him, I can begin to feel some of what he's doing.

I have the complete Dial/Savoy recordings and some other things, but I think the recommendation earlier for the early 50s Verve material with Max Roach (the purple CD, I don't remember what it's called) is a good one if fidelity is an obstacle. And the Uptown Town Hall CD is highly recommended as a starting point too. The excitement there--from the crowd, on the bandstand--is palpable. A true revolution in the making.

Say what you will about the Ken Burns Jazz series, but that scene where an atomic bomb detonates as the viewer hears Ko Ko is right on target.

[robviti]

Interesting that so many people have sound quality issues even with studio recordings from the 40s and 50s. It is very rare that sound quality is a major factor in determining what I listen to. I naively assumed the same for most other people.

i agree. to focus on the sound quality of such historic recordings at the expense of the artistry contained therein is like saying you can't appreciate the little lady below 'cause she's missing a few limbs.

[Guy Berger]

Say what you will about the Ken Burns Jazz series, but that scene where an atomic bomb detonates as the viewer hears Ko Ko is right on target.

Wasn't it "Salt Peanuts"? Either way I agree.

Guy

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Say what you will about the Ken Burns Jazz series, but that scene where an atomic bomb detonates as the viewer hears Ko Ko is right on target.

Wasn't it "Salt Peanuts"? Either way I agree.

Guy

See? These titles somehow don't connect with the music, so no one can remember the titles of tunes you know like the back of your hand.

MG

[montg]

Say what you will about the Ken Burns Jazz series, but that scene where an atomic bomb detonates as the viewer hears Ko Ko is right on target.

Wasn't it "Salt Peanuts"? Either way I agree.

Guy

See? These titles somehow don't connect with the music, so no one can remember the titles of tunes you know like the back of your hand.

MG

It could have been 'Salt Peanuts', it's been awhile since I've seen it.

[king ubu]

Say what you will about the Ken Burns Jazz series, but that scene where an atomic bomb detonates as the viewer hears Ko Ko is right on target.

Wasn't it "Salt Peanuts"? Either way I agree.

Guy

See? These titles somehow don't connect with the music, so no one can remember the titles of tunes you know like the back of your hand.

MG

you certainly jest, sir? to answer the original question, yes, I do many birds, ahem...

KoKo is Cherokee, simple as that, no way anyone who really "heard" that Savoy side cannot remember it! Da shit, as they say. Quite an interesting thread here. Allen, the OJCs I am still missing (but "Bird at St. Nick's" is around in a sale, I'll look for it). Anyway, this altissimo thing sounds interesting.

The sound issue I can't relate to, either - some of this stuff is soooo goddam good, sound won't matter once you're into it!

[DukeCity]

the most interesting, to me, "live" Bird things are the OJCs where he frequently bursts into the upper register and basically splits notes and stops playing, as though he's hit some kind of celestial altissimo range - this, IMHO, is the Bird who is frustrated with basic tonality, trying to find a way out (you'll have to listen through to find these, but as I recall one of them is Bird at St. Nick's) - I have a feeling he was high and happy for these and feeling expansive. The whole search for the altisimmo range (and I don't think I am spelling that word correctly) was really an early search for freedom, as has been pointed out to me by a few older '50s players (particularly Dave Schildkraut who basically told me that Bird was fascinated by the possibilities and told him so, and that Dave himself was working on playing up there, and that Coltrane discussed with Dave the importance of control in that register and expressed an understanding that they were both working on controlling it - also, Teo Macero is another who was looking in that direction) -

It's been a while since I checked out the "live" OJC things, but I was surprised to hear Bird playing some altissimo on the 1945 Town Hall recording. A couple of times he plays an altissimo "A" on alto (piano key of "C") and once wanders up to a "D". I had never thought of Bird as an altissimo player, so maybe the other recordings you mention sound more like squeaks/split notes/mistakes to my ears. I'll have to give another listen.

[Big Al]

Listening to BIRD & DIZ, courtesy of the public library. Slowly getting bit!