doubleM Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 I have often wondered what happpened to her. Is she actually in hell already, or prison, or what? I don't expect anyone to really know this, but stranger things have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 this is a great question and i want to know too! also, can anyone recommend a top notch bio of lee morgan? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 This was posted by Bertrand in a thread in the Reissues forum about the reissue of Breakthrough (Cedar Walton and Hank Mobley): "Ian McDonald in the U.K. is indeed working on a Hank bio. He already published one on Tadd Dameron. There are several books on Lee Morgan in the works. The one that will most likely come out first is being written by a French journalist. Based on the work he has done so far, I think it will be excellent. Both Lee and Hank were the subject of Master's Theses at Rutgers. Jeff McMillan's thesis on Lee came out a few years ago. Sam Miller probably just finished his Hank thesis this year. I think he is about to give a lecture at the Institute of Jazz Studies (or it may already have happened?)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 None of the Lee biographers I have spoken to have determined the fate of Helen More. The unverified story that is circulating is that she served a very short prison term (six months). She is said to have died within the last decade - she was 14 years older than Lee. Fortunately, the rights to his music reverted to his wife Kiko Yamamoto (they were never divorced). Helen More could not have been his common law wife as is often stated, since he still had a wife at the time of his death. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 I have often wondered what happpened to her. Is she actually in hell already, or prison, or what? I don't expect anyone to really know this, but stranger things have happened. What's this about being in hell? If you've ever read any accounts of the shooting, you'll see that it was hardly unprovoked. Lee was treating Helen like shit, and she cracked. From what I've read, she regretted her actions immediately. She's suffered quite a bit. Why would she have to go to hell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 There's certainly some very positive comments about Helen More by Bennie Maupin in the notes to the 'Live at the Lighthouse' 3 CD set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM Posted September 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 To reply to the question about my having written that she was going to hell, (I'd drag the quote from Alexander down if I knew how)...that wasn't a definitive or dogmatic statement. It was sort of a joke. But I think that if there is a hell, and one earns a roster spot there, shooting someone and killing them might qualify as an event. Maybe they could have tried some other interventions first. He might have exacerbated their problems by being w/ another woman at Slug's. Glad to hear that she felt like shit, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 were lee's last words really "f-u b*tch" or is that just legend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERIGAN Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Still no mention of when she died, but a bit more on the night of his death... Quoted story at bottom of the page.... In January 1972, in a scene straight out of "Frankie and Johnny," trumpeter Lee Morgan was shot dead by his mistress at Slug's, a jazz club on New York City's Lower East Side. Morgan was thirty-three years old. His death—spectacular in jazz not so much because he was young as because it involved a woman instead of drugs—is remembered thus by one of his closest musical associates: "For years Lee had been with Helen [More], an older woman—maybe ten years older than him—who sort of looked after him and had straightened him out a little, helped him stay away from dope. A few weeks before his death, Lee had started hanging out with a younger girl, very pretty; she looked like Angela Davis. He was taking her all over town, showing her off to his friends. One day he dropped by the school in Harlem where I was teaching jazz workshops and introduced her to all of us. "That night in January was one of the coldest nights of the year. It was about five degrees below zero, and Lee was relaxing between sets at the bar with this fine new girlfriend of his when Helen walked in. She came up to him, but lee didn't want to be bothered and he walked her over to a table, sat her down, and told her to wait. Then he went back to the bar. After a while, she came up to him again. This time Lee took her by the shoulders and, without her overcoat or anything, marched her over to the door and put her out in the cold. Now she had Lee's pistol in her pocketbook, and when she came back in she pulled it out and shot him: one of those shots that go straight to the heart. A little red stain came up on his shirt—the bleeding was all inside—and a few minutes later he was dead. Then she realized what had happened and she was crying and hanging over him and screaming—'Mogie'—that was what she called him—'What have I done?' But he was dead. David H Rosenthal, Hard Bop: Jazz and Black Music, 1955-1965, Oxford University Press, 1992 http://www.qxmail.com/journal/journal2002dec.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Why would she have to go to hell? To get to the other side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrdlu Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 There is no need for any doubt about who goes to hell. The answer can be found in a dimestore Bible. There are many verses that answer the question, but this will do: John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son (Jesus) hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." A person's destination at death does not depend on what they have DONE (or not done): it depends on what they ARE. If a person does not accept the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour while still alive, then they go straight to hell when they die, as all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). If they trust Jesus as Saviour, then all their sins are immediately removed in God's sight and when they die, they go straight to be with the Lord in Heaven. It is a very common, and tragic, mistake to think that whether a person goes to heaven or hell is based on their works (that is, upon what they have done or not done). In our "Western" culture, with all the education and communications available to us, there is no reason (or excuse) for any ignorance about this vital topic. God says in the Bible that a person can KNOW that they are saved and will not go to hell when they die. (No religion even tries to make such a claim.) I John 5:13 says "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." There is no confusion over such a thing as the location of the studio where Lee Morgan recorded "The Sidewinder", or whether you put the transmission of a car into D to go forward. Those things are perfectly clear. So is the way to be saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Why would she have to go to hell? To get to the other side? I thought that was why chickens wore red suspenders.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacman Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 There is no confusion over such a thing as the location of the studio where Lee Morgan recorded "The Sidewinder", or whether you put the transmission of a car into D to go forward. Those things are perfectly clear. So is the way to be saved. i put my car in F to go forward, B to back up, and S to go sideways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM Posted September 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Wow. Remind me to not make jokes about or references to "hell" in this forum. I hope that having somewhat hard feelings about someone snuffing out the life of Lee Morgan (my favorite trumpet player, murdered at 33, an aside) doesn't mean that I am also going to hell. Again, it was a joke. This isn't a forum about being "saved", so I guess I shouldn't have said "hell"...and invited a bunch of fervored rhetoric about the Afterlife. I still think that you don't just kill someone if they do wrong by you in a relationship, but hey, what do I know? Hell...I was just wondering if she did time, and how much...if anyone knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 That'll larn ya to ask questions around here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Moments Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 does anyone really know what the hell lee's last words were? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 I'll bet they weren't "Caramba! The gigolo is going off in search of a new land!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jad Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 (edited) Weren't they "Aaah...hell"? Edited September 18, 2003 by Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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