Dave Pell, good place to start?

[Jazztropic]

Never heard any of his cds before.What is his sound like?Any good recommendations ?

Thanks

[David Gitin]

Never heard any of his cds before.What is his sound like?Any good recommendations ?

Thanks

If you enjoy what used to be called "West Coast Jazz" (whichever coast it was on), you should try

to find Dave Pell's Octet on RCA.

[BillF]

Never heard any of his cds before.What is his sound like?Any good recommendations ?

Thanks

If you enjoy what used to be called "West Coast Jazz" (whichever coast it was on), you should try

to find Dave Pell's Octet on RCA.

Well, I do enjoy West Coast jazz, but don't have any Dave Pell in my collection. I think I've heard some octet tracks on the radio - on a ghost of miles WFIU show, IIRC. A bit of an unexplored area which I should look into. So I'll back Jazztropic's request for a recommendation.

Edited March 8, 2008 by BillF

[Big Beat Steve]

Well, I for one do like West Coast Jazz a lot so obviously I have my share of Dave Pell discs (thanks, Fresh Sound et al.!).

However, though basically West Coast artists get a sort of advance credit with me I find Dave Pell a mixed bag, of sorts ...

And though I am NOT impressed by usual period scribes who felt like they needed to put down WCJ at all times, occasionally I have to agree with their reservations when it comes to Dave Pell.

My personal favorites are his "songbook" albums on the Kapp label (the "Burke & Van Heusen" and "Irving Berlin" albums; there also is a "Rodgers & Hrt" album which I do not have, though). Cool, breezy, relaxed, easily swinging arrangements that at their best portray the freshness and "summer" atmosphere of WCJ very nicely.

The Dave Pell Octet's "A Pell Of A Time" on RCA is also worth exploring if you are after that certain "West Coast Jazz feel".

I am less impressed by his "Campus Hop/Jazz Goes Dancing" on RCA which, as the title suggests, really is too commercial for my taste. A dance band affair à la the less adventurious Ray Anthony items of that time ...

And most of the "Love Story" album on Atlantic is just not my cup of tea. One or two tracks are intriguing but as for the rest, it's one of those albums where I can see why period jazz writers complained that WCJ just was too gutless, to nice, too bland.

[Larry Kart]

This reissue of a vividly recorded live Pell album from the mid-1980s is nice (good price too):

http://www.amazon.com/Live-at-Alfonses-Dav...0832&sr=1-4

Charts (many by Marty Paich) are played very well, and there's more blowing room than on the '50s Pell albums. No Don Fagerquist though, of course -- he said sadly. Pell is a funny cat; some his lines have a peculiarly "indelible" quality -- check out "Love Me or Leave Me" -- yet almost by the same token they can seem oddly predetermined/fixed in place; compare his "Love Me of Leave Me" to Bill Perkins's otherwise not dissimilar work on the same piece on "Two Degrees East, Three Degrees West."

[JohnS]

Although I like west coast jazz I've always found Pell's albums disappointing. Somewhat on the commercial/dancing side with little jazz 'bite'.

[BillF]

Although I like west coast jazz I've always found Pell's albums disappointing. Somewhat on the commercial/dancing side with little jazz 'bite'.

You're probably right. Although a committed West Coast jazz fan, I felt no impulse to go out and buy Pell albums after hearing those tracks on the radio. (I certainly didn't feel like that about Niehaus or Graas, who led similar-sized outfits.) Now I come to think of it, IIRC ghost of miles included the Pell tracks in his easy listening show, Afterglow, rather than in his jazz show,Night Lights, which fits with what you say.

[BillF]

Although I like west coast jazz I've always found Pell's albums disappointing. Somewhat on the commercial/dancing side with little jazz 'bite'.

You're probably right. Although a committed West Coast jazz fan, I felt no impulse to go out and buy Pell albums after hearing those tracks on the radio. (I certainly didn't feel like that about Niehaus or Graas, who led similar-sized outfits.) Now I come to think of it, IIRC ghost of miles included the Pell tracks in his easy listening show, Afterglow, rather than in his jazz show,Night Lights, which fits with what you say.

I've now found support from jazz writers for this view of Pell. Ted Gioia seems to find him hardly worthy of mention in West Coast Jazz, while Robert Gordon's brief references to Pell in Jazz West Coast are decidedly uncomplimentary:

"little more than scaled-down big-band dance charts with slightly advanced harmonies, the sort of music that Dave Pell would later manufacture in a seemingly endless series of albums"

"no doubt Fagerquist was largely ignored at the time because he laboured so often in the commercial vineyards of the Dave Pell Octet"

"the innocuous series of recordings by the Dave Pell Octet have little to offer the serious jazz listener. (Dave Pell himself once termed his music 'mortgage-paying jazz')"

Ouch!

Edited March 9, 2008 by BillF

[sidewinder]

Saw a performance by the Dave Pell Octet at a West Coast festival about 10 years and was pleasantly suprised. Nothing profound but an enjoyable, swinging performance.

[BillF]

Saw a performance by the Dave Pell Octet at a West Coast festival about 10 years and was pleasantly suprised. Nothing profound but an enjoyable, swinging performance.

The above criticisms center on Pell in the 1950s and don't necessarily apply to the later performances which you and Larry Kart describe.

[Big Beat Steve]

As always ... listen for yourselves and then draw your own conclusions as to whether the music meets your tastes or not. In the case of Pell's 50s recordings, IMO some of it is OK and enjoyable, some isn't (see above).

Gioia's and Gordon's books are fine and while I generally find it interesting what they included, the exclusion is only of limited concern to me (incidentally, Gordon's quote of the "seemingly endless series of albums" rather seems to refer to Pell's 60s albums which are not what we are talking about here).

Besides, if history books of that music are what counts to you, those interested in the subject might also read up on Pell in Alain Tercinet's WEST COAST JAZZ book (Editions Parentheses, 1986) (where Pell is given a bit more coverage), but of course you would have to be able to read French. At any rate, the fact that the book is not accessible to English-only readers does not make it any less relevant per se.

Generally, I do not necessarily take all the judgments that scribes (especially period scribes) make on controversial topics and musicians (e.g. West Coast Jazz, as is was a favorite pastime of quite a few writers to blast WCJ indiscriminately) at face value but use them more as a rough guide. In this particular case, for example, the abovementioned Lennie Niehaus and John Graas (the latter, in particular) often fare rather badly in period comments on WCJ, too. Graas, in particular, is also often accused of pretentiousness, affectation, gimmickery, etc. Clearly a case of scribes coming from a different direction of jazz (or already being all-out hard-blowing East Coast jazz partisans?) and unable or unwilling to digest the music on its own terms. So where would you be if you had read those comments on Graas before listening to the music?

In short, if you still feel like it, try his "Pell Of A Time" and "Irving Berlin" albums if you can grab them at a price that suits you and you'll have a sampling that should fit in well in any WCJ collection.

As for his later works, his "Prez Conference" band from the late 70s is fairly listenable too. Sort of alternate Supersax ...

Edited March 9, 2008 by Big Beat Steve

[BillF]

As always ... listen for yourselves and then draw your own conclusions as to whether the music meets your tastes or not. In the case of Pell's 50s recordings, IMO some of it is OK and enjoyable, some isn't (see above).

Gioia's and Gordon's books are fine and while I generally find it interesting what they included, the exclusion is only of limited concern to me (incidentally, Gordon's quote of the "seemingly endless series of albums" rather seems to refer to Pell's 60s albums which are not what we are talking about here).

Besides, if history books of that music are what counts to you, those interested in the subject might also read up on Pell in Alain Tercinet's WEST COAST JAZZ book (Editions Parentheses, 1986) (where Pell is given a bit more coverage), but of course you would have to be able to read French. At any rate, the fact that the book is not accessible to English-only readers does not make it any less relevant per se.

Generally, I do not necessarily take all the judgments that scribes (especially period scribes) make on controversial topics and musicians (e.g. West Coast Jazz, as is was a favorite pastime of quite a few writers to blast WCJ indiscriminately) at face value but use them more as a rough guide. In this particular case, for example, the abovementioned Lennie Niehaus and John Graas (the latter, in particular) often fare rather badly in period comments on WCJ, too. Graas, in particular, is also often accused of pretentiousness, affectation, gimmickery, etc. Clearly a case of scribes coming from a different direction of jazz (or already being all-out hard-blowing East Coast jazz partisans?) and unable or unwilling to digest the music on its own terms. So where would you be if you had read those comments on Graas before listening to the music?

In short, if you still feel like it, try his "Pell Of A Time" and "Irving Berlin" albums if you can grab them at a price that suits you and you'll have a sampling that should fit in well in any WCJ collection.

As for his later works, his "Prez Conference" band from the late 70s is fairly listenable too. Sort of alternate Supersax ...

Thanks for your expertise on this one, Steve!

[DIS]

As always ... listen for yourselves and then draw your own conclusions as to whether the music meets your tastes or not. In the case of Pell's 50s recordings, IMO some of it is OK and enjoyable, some isn't (see above).

Gioia's and Gordon's books are fine and while I generally find it interesting what they included, the exclusion is only of limited concern to me (incidentally, Gordon's quote of the "seemingly endless series of albums" rather seems to refer to Pell's 60s albums which are not what we are talking about here).

Besides, if history books of that music are what counts to you, those interested in the subject might also read up on Pell in Alain Tercinet's WEST COAST JAZZ book (Editions Parentheses, 1986) (where Pell is given a bit more coverage), but of course you would have to be able to read French. At any rate, the fact that the book is not accessible to English-only readers does not make it any less relevant per se.

Generally, I do not necessarily take all the judgments that scribes (especially period scribes) make on controversial topics and musicians (e.g. West Coast Jazz, as is was a favorite pastime of quite a few writers to blast WCJ indiscriminately) at face value but use them more as a rough guide. In this particular case, for example, the abovementioned Lennie Niehaus and John Graas (the latter, in particular) often fare rather badly in period comments on WCJ, too. Graas, in particular, is also often accused of pretentiousness, affectation, gimmickery, etc. Clearly a case of scribes coming from a different direction of jazz (or already being all-out hard-blowing East Coast jazz partisans?) and unable or unwilling to digest the music on its own terms. So where would you be if you had read those comments on Graas before listening to the music?

In short, if you still feel like it, try his "Pell Of A Time" and "Irving Berlin" albums if you can grab them at a price that suits you and you'll have a sampling that should fit in well in any WCJ collection.

As for his later works, his "Prez Conference" band from the late 70s is fairly listenable too. Sort of alternate Supersax ...

Thanks for your expertise on this one, Steve!

[DIS]

Never heard any of his cds before.What is his sound like?Any good recommendations ?

Thanks

Certainly much of the fun is with the arrangements. How can you beat arrangements by composers and arrangers like Shorty Rogers, Marty Paich, Bob Florence, Bill Holman, and Med Flory?

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

you guys really have some gall criticizing dave pell, one of the most diversely talented muscians/arrangers in W.C.J

if you like Sonny rollins way out west, see where he copied it all from, with Dave Pell's westerned themeded w.c.j. lp on RCA victor, in fact he has a couple like that.

also Dave pell had a record label, P.R.I, Precision Radiation Instruments, (they also made geiger counters) and on that label he released many "tribute" records- Dave pell octet tribute to the sound of tommy dorsey, perez prado, count basie, i just got the Mantonvioni one, a lot of them are on real nice yellow coloured vinyl

the thing about dave pell is that he transended simple and pure w.c.j. and was able to incorporate the ideals of w.c.j. over a more diverse musical landscape, i stopped following his carreer in the early 60s, but i immigine he was really big in the studios....

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

oh yea he was a proudcer for LIBERTY in the 60s...... yea yea that was it

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

look he even worked for barry gordy!

After Liberty was ingested by United Artists, Pell became creative director for Motown Records, where he hired the Commodores and helped the label through its challenging transition from Detroit to Los Angeles, and from the "Motown sound" to 70s soul and disco

[king ubu]

The usual BN bias was working here, the first Pell I got was the CD reissue of his Craziest Dreams album on Capitol (which in my book is worth having if only for the bonus session, the lone Don Fagerquist leader date I think, besides his excellent octet album on Mode/VSOP).

Haven't gotten much further with Pell yet, only heard the Rodges/Hart album (Freshsound CD), which isn't bad at all. He might be on an LP I have, too, but a quick google search didn't help, will have to look for it at home.

[Bluesnik]

my favourite Dave Pell is I had the craziest dream on Capitol. if you can still find it, this one is really worth getting. and there's another one of his RCAs I like a lot, i think it is A Pell of a Time. and i agree Campus Hop is disappointing. i have it but have only listened to it a couple of times.

but of course you need to like West Coast to enjoy this. i certainly do.

[Alec]

Many of Pell's Cds (the songbook series and some of the Capitol sides) can be found at the following location:

Group 7 catalog

The Cds are anywhere from $12.99 and up with free shipping. There is also a link to Pell's homepage.

[Bluesnik]

i liked specially the Capitol side I had the craziest dream but i recently bought The DAve Pell Octet plays Irving Berlin wich is really good. it's typically west coast fare and the only stellar player i know here are Don Fagerquist on trumpet plus Ray Sims (brother to Zoot) and the tenor of Dave Pell himself, but the rest are also good. it's versions of the Berlin classics arranged by among others Shorty Rogers. there is really nice ensemble playing plus much cool on this one. it has been reissued on CD by Freshsound around 2000. i don't know what label it was on originally. i think it was Kapp but i'm not sure. Freshsound also issued his 1984 effort in their "The stars of West Coast Jazz today" series.

[Teasing the Korean]

The best is "Mah-Na-Mah-Na" by the Dave Pell Singers, including the incredibly groovy sessy version of "Oh Calcutta" which was featured on one of the Sound Gallery compilations. Also has a nice version of the title tune and "Crystal Blue Persuasion."

This has been reissued on CD from Cherry Red.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Teasing the Korean

[Dave James]

Does anyone know if Prez Conference was ever released anywhere on CD? There's no sound in jazz I love more than four or five saxes playing in unison with a good rhythm section. This is one I'd really like to have.

Up over and out.

[AllenLowe]

is Pell still alive? I went to high school with his niece, who than became a producer (Lion King was one credit); she still lives on the West coast -

[Teasing the Korean]

is Pell still alive? I went to high school with his niece, who than became a producer (Lion King was one credit); she still lives on the West coast -

Apparently so.