peterintoronto Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Though I have been lurking these forums for about a year, I have never really felt the need to chime in with anything until today. Ever since I discovered The Art Ensemble Of Chicago, I have been buying up their albums whenever I see 'em, whether it be on vinyl or compact disc. As soon as I read of Chuck Nessa's long-out-print 5-cd set of the A.E.O.C., I knew one thing: I wanted it badly! I already knew from searching these very forums that others had inquired about the box, and I knew Chuck's response: "they're long gone"! Well, about two weeks ago I somehow stumble onto the site of a record store in Oakland, California, called 'Saturn Records'. Clicking on their 'free jazz' stock link, this line greeted me (still there, by the way): Art Ensemble Of Chicago 1967/1968 Ind No# Chicago Studio 67-68 5CD $50.00 Buy Now I remember making this face: :excited: . This looked like Nessa's long-out-of-print and highly coveted box! And at a hell of reasonable price too! I emailed the store, and dutifully sent a money order the very next day. I even emailed the store a week later to make sure they got my money order, as didn't want them forgetting that I had sent payment. Fast forward another week. Yesterday I got a delivery slip in the mail, and today I picked up the parcel! More :excited: right? I'm gonna let the pictures tell the story for a bit now: Yay! Here it is! A free DVD? Cool! Here it is!!! Uhhhhhh...huh? Did they send me the wrong item or something? Nope! It's a bootleg! How awesome for me and especially for Chuck, who I'm sure is flattered right about now. Right? What exquisite packaging! 5 unlabeled CDRs and a 1 page photocopy! This puts Mosaic and Bear Family to shame! So. This is clearly not what I had expected. I called the store immediately, and about an hour later my message was returned. Apparently the owner (who included an 86-page catalog of thousands of other bootlegged material), had "no idea that the material was commercially released". He offered that I send the discs back for a refund, but seemed wholly nonchalant about the whole thing. What the heck do I do now? Send it back and pray for a refund? Send it to Chuck as evidence? Please advise! P.S. The free DVD? A bootleg of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Start your own thread. Oh, wait, you already did!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 This is an interseting comment found on their site... We at Saturn emphasize the appreciation of records and memorabilia as artifacts, "period pieces" if you will, in addition to their musical content. Rather than offering a catalog of contemporary reissues and other items readily available through mass marketing, or as "limited edition" collectibles, our specialty is in original-issues and exotic, foreign or promotional period editions. In our effort to continually evolve, expand and improve, we will monitor your feedback to determine if you, our valued customers, have any wish for Saturn to bring you any other types and formats of music. Let us know at service@saturnrecords.com! So, does "exotic" mean bootleg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 (edited) Total shot in the dark, and it likely won't happen, but would it be possible to ask for a refund transfer to be made before making the return? A similar situation happened with me and an ebay guy a while ago. He was selling what I thought were LP copies of a lot of OOP South African and Euro jazz albums. I made the order for what appeared to be an LP copy of Blue Notes for Mongezi, and I thought that it read "bonus CDR rip included with purchase" + free bonus CD (I don't know what it was--another (real) copy of Mu or something). Turns out, and I realized this a little too late, being an idiot, that he would sell the "legit" CD as the actual product, and include as a "bonus CDR rip" a copy of the OOP album. It was an easy way to look legit; you sell a CD that no one actually wants to buy and the customer pays for the bonus CDR rip. No LP included. I mercifully got the order canceled and my money back. These schemes make me sick. On the upside, that guy got (I think) banned from ebay. Edited August 24, 2008 by ep1str0phy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Oh. And I move that the forum spam the shit out of Saturn records. Too rash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Too rash? If it is too rash, we could always use baby powder later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 How's this for an idea, Peter? Make CDRs of the CDRs, and photocopy the photocopies. Return them, and if you get your money back, make more copies. Return those, and...well, you get it. Surely Saturn Records couldn't object to this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Are we to assume that the owner of the store actually has the original but would rather make copies than sell the original? I wonder how long this store has been in existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Are we to assume that the owner of the store actually has the original but would rather make copies than sell the original? I wonder how long this store has been in existence. "Saturn Records opened its doors to the public in Oakland, California in September of 1992 ..." sounds like the store "turned evil" in the last few months http://www.yelp.com/biz/saturn-records-oakland see also http://www.saturnrecords.com/ (they still offer the box so i just made a screenshot of them offering it in case this should ever be important) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Are we to assume that the owner of the store actually has the original but would rather make copies than sell the original? I wonder how long this store has been in existence. "Saturn Records opened its doors to the public in Oakland, California in September of 1992 ..." sounds like the store "turned evil" in the last few months http://www.yelp.com/biz/saturn-records-oakland see also http://www.saturnrecords.com/ (they still offer the box so i just made a screenshot of them offering it in case this should ever be important) Interesting. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Used to be a great place to find cool records, now it's the worst record store I have ever been in. Why? Because it is no longer a record store, but a nasty vintage clothing shop. nasty, nasy....bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterintoronto Posted August 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 (edited) Are we to assume that the owner of the store actually has the original but would rather make copies than sell the original? I wonder how long this store has been in existence. I actually asked the guy this. He claims to have never owned the original box - he bought it in it's bootleg state at a record show . He probably made CDR 'masters' of it, and sold the original a long time ago. Edited August 24, 2008 by peterintoronto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Peter, send it back and hope you get your money returned. If interested, I can supply a partial set. No booklet and no disc C. I can provide scans of the book and a burn of the missing disc. How does $40 sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterintoronto Posted August 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 (edited) Peter, send it back and hope you get your money returned. If interested, I can supply a partial set. No booklet and no disc C. I can provide scans of the book and a burn of the missing disc. How does $40 sound? Wow. You are awesome. Do you accept PayPal? I will be mailing everything back to Saturn Records tomorrow. Edited August 24, 2008 by peterintoronto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 This is really the worst kind of bullshit and thievery, but I'm not sure what Chuck or the artists can do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 This has got to be a record (and a good one ...) ... An OOP box set by the third post. I for one would encourage you to post more often! No telling what might happen. Awesome offer by Chuck Nessa. And it's good to see good things happen with good karma. I'd throw a note in there when you return the fake set telling the guy in Oakland that he's engaging in theft. But, he already knows that. ... Screw him. Alert the feds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 Well, your can make yourself a copy of disc C before you get your money back and buy the rest of the box from Chuck. It looks like all of the CD offerings from Saturn are CDR bootlegs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 what did u expect, they bootleged the name of the record store too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterintoronto Posted August 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 Well, your can make yourself a copy of disc C before you get your money back and buy the rest of the box from Chuck. It looks like all of the CD offerings from Saturn are CDR bootlegs. Nah, I'll send the whole thing back, and let Chuck generously send me whatever he has. I'm actually not the victim here - Chuck and the members of the AEOC box are - and yet, Chuck is the one who has stepped up to the proverbial plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterintoronto Posted August 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 WOW. This just in from my email: Hi Peter, I heard from Chuck, and thought I'd forward his email and my response. I will be removing the item from inventory tonight. Please make sure Chuck takes his blood-pressure medication, OK? Best to you, Scott AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Has the world gone mad? I cannot wait to mail this thing back tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 Please make sure Chuck takes his blood-pressure medication, OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 in case anybody's interested I'm selling really good copies of the Declaration of Independence - and on good paper this time, not that lousy crumbling parchment - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 in case anybody's interested I'm selling really good copies of the Declaration of Independence - and on good paper this time, not that lousy crumbling parchment - ha! Great news. That old shitty paper is what always kept me from owning a copy in that past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 WOW. This just in from my email: Hi Peter, I heard from Chuck, and thought I'd forward his email and my response. I will be removing the item from inventory tonight. Please make sure Chuck takes his blood-pressure medication, OK? Best to you, Scott AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Has the world gone mad? I cannot wait to mail this thing back tomorrow. Now a bunch of us need to call representing various artists and record labels and give the guy some more shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papsrus Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 WOW. This just in from my email: Hi Peter, I heard from Chuck, and thought I'd forward his email and my response. I will be removing the item from inventory tonight. Please make sure Chuck takes his blood-pressure medication, OK? Best to you, Scott AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Has the world gone mad? I cannot wait to mail this thing back tomorrow. How nice of this fellow to be passing around other people's correspondence, too. And the lovely little snip about medication. ... It all fits, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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