Cliff Englewood Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Now I'm even more pleased I got the Moncur Select before it went OOP. This incident is also just adding fuel to the flames, that belong to fire of suspicion, that burns in the back of my mind as to just how much re-mastering actually goes on in a lot of these re-issues.(Could I be anymore pretentious? :D ) Edited February 12, 2009 by Cliff Englewood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Well, I have every Blue Note RVG, and every Prestige RVG too. When I have another version, I always compare. To me these each appear different transfers from the previous editions, as far as I can tell. RVGs seem very polarizing. They sound different to me on different systems. My main system I have sort of toed out the speakers and ramped down the tweeters to make most cds sound better. I can tolerate McMasters on this system, but RVGs really shine. I have omnidirectional drivers which disperse sound throughout the room very well and this really makes a solid and realistic seeming sound and sound stage to the RVGs to my ears. They sound to me as if you're in a row near the front of the stage. I'm very happy with the series. RVGs don't sound that special on my compact Monitor Audio iDeck when I patch in a cd, or in my bedroom system of a Blu-Ray player and Peachtree Aduio Decco DAC/integrated amp and matching speakers. But they sound better than McMasters still to me. I know others hear them differently for likely a plethora of reasons. They seem to be successful series though, and I'm happy about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Send it back and get the Moncur Select instead, while you can? Too late, all gone. Shows you how much I pay attention around here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Well, I have every Blue Note RVG, and every Prestige RVG too. When I have another version, I always compare. To me these each appear different transfers from the previous editions, as far as I can tell. RVGs seem very polarizing. They sound different to me on different systems. My main system I have sort of toed out the speakers and ramped down the tweeters to make most cds sound better. I can tolerate McMasters on this system, but RVGs really shine. I have omnidirectional drivers which disperse sound throughout the room very well and this really makes a solid and realistic seeming sound and sound stage to the RVGs to my ears. They sound to me as if you're in a row near the front of the stage. I'm very happy with the series. RVGs don't sound that special on my compact Monitor Audio iDeck when I patch in a cd, or in my bedroom system of a Blu-Ray player and Peachtree Aduio Decco DAC/integrated amp and matching speakers. But they sound better than McMasters still to me. I know others hear them differently for likely a plethora of reasons. They seem to be successful series though, and I'm happy about that. On the other had, I listen at work with my refurbished old Philips portable CD player and my $30 Sennheiser HD415 open air headphones (which I'll take over any other company's $100 headphones). The RVG's sound good to me, too. Edited February 12, 2009 by felser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Has anyone emailed Cuscuna about this yet? JETman has a call in to Cuscuna. . .hopefully he'll call back. Has anyone heard yet. My version of One Step Beyond has the same issue. The second track has the different intro. Should I return it to the store or what for the fix? ANy info appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 damn, let's hope BN fixes this before I pick up "One Step Beyond" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Cuscuna knows about it. I believe he has Rudy re-doing it but I haven't confirmed it. In case anyone is reading about this mistake and has never heard "One Step beyond", you should know that there is a coda at the end of "Saturday and Sunday" and this coda starts after several seconds of silence. I imagine that anyone not familiar with this tune might hear that large gap and assume "end of song" and press "index" on the mastering station. It's happened twice now with this particular tune so it's not only RVG's problem. I guess they should make a note on the master tape to let future mastering engineers to look out for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Cuscuna knows about it. I believe he has Rudy re-doing it but I haven't confirmed it. In case anyone is reading about this mistake and has never heard "One Step beyond", you should know that there is a coda at the end of "Saturday and Sunday" and this coda starts after several seconds of silence. I imagine that anyone not familiar with this tune might hear that large gap and assume "end of song" and press "index" on the mastering station. It's happened twice now with this particular tune so it's not only RVG's problem. I guess they should make a note on the master tape to let future mastering engineers to look out for this. thanks Kevin Do you have any idea whether it makes sense to return this thing now or wait and do it through BLue Note? If that involves mailing it back in and complications, I would rather return it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 The last time I did a "correction" thing with Blue Note, they mailed me a replacement disc, that was all there was to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Englewood Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 The last time I did a "correction" thing with Blue Note, they mailed me a replacement disc, that was all there was to it. Yep, that's how they replaced, was it "Dialogue", with the well weird last tune? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) There is no coda. There *are* rests , but it is a straightforward 32 bar structure. Only the first eight bars of the final statement of the theme in the alt. of that tune are still attached.The rest joins Frankenstein, almost fifty seconds of music. That this mistake is identical to the previous version causes me to believe that the RMcM tapes were used, however treated. That is why I would like to know whether the other error which joins the past four bars of the master to the front of the alt. also occurs on the RVG. Does anyone care to check this? The only way it could go out like this if no-one listened to it. Edited February 17, 2009 by David Ayers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 There is no coda. There *are* rests , but it is a straightforward 32 bar structure. Only the first eight bars of the final statement of the theme in the alt. of that tune are still attached.The rest joins Frankenstein, almost fifty seconds of music. That this mistake is identical to the previous version causes me to believe that the RMcM tapes were used, however treated. That is why I would like to know whether the other error which joins the past four bars of the master to the front of the alt. also occurs on the RVG. Does anyone care to check this? The only way it could go out like this if no-one listened to it. The intro to "Saturday and Sunday" starts out with the Duh da da da daaa da duh duh for 15 seconds. Then the main part of the tune starts. At 10:14, after almost 4 seconds of rest, they repeat this sequence, and the tune runs out 15 seconds later. I assume this ending is what's been chopped off. Maybe a jazz faux pas, but I always called this repeated intro a "coda". Mea culpa. I agree that it's pretty easy to notice if listened to and I'm not excusing anyone from screwing up. But if they fix it, everyone should be happy eith that. Myself, I'm all about preventing something from happening again. So I'd mark up the master (which is what RVG used) to indicate that the first tune has large rests. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) What I'm thinking is that the masters were all discrete tapes. The errors on the RMcM resulted from the cues being put in the wrong place. That is, the material is all in the correct order so only the cues are wrong. On the RVG the material is not in the correct order, so it is no longer a matter of cue points, but of origin. Easily the most plausible explanation is that the digital RMcM transfers were used and simply reprocessed. If I m right then the dropping of the last few bars of Sat and Sun master, adding them to the start of Sat and Sun alt. will confirm as much. I don't have the RVG so I'd like someone to check it! Put it this way, if Sat and Sun master on the RVG clocks in at 10.13 or so that's the RMcM time. It should be more like 10.25. The RMcM alt. clocks at 8.47. Anyone? PS I check the timings as posted online and it seems that the master of Sat & Sun is the correct length. So the mystery deepens. Edited February 18, 2009 by David Ayers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 The Moncur set is OOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 'EARTH TO ORGANISSMO' EARTH TO ORGANISSMO:: "RVG Series" is stinky-poo sound!! just day, i FINALLY re-bought my Ron McMaster "SIDEWINDER"...after it was MIA for 7 yrs, i replaced it w/ the "RVG", traded the old fashioned one and that was that..........UNTIL NOW: hooked it up w/ a sealed McMaster for 2.98 today....cover is waterdammed, in fact they had like 10 of em, all sealed, covers all cracked, 1st one i opened the booklet was STUCK to the cd....made him let me find another and the cd on that one was ok but the booket is like fused on the cd plastic, but looks fine. lemme give u all some inside info: save and get all the McMasters you can, these are the bomb ones, the RVG series is ok, if youre listening to LOU REED METAL MACHINE MUSIC no, i take that back PAT METHENY ZERO TOLERANCE FOR SILENCE (BOTH OF WHICH I HAVE NEVER HEARD) but for sidewinder, stick w/ ron. just think of Ron Jeremy, if Ron made a movie where he mastered cds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHill Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) I refuse to think of Ron Jeremy when I think of Ron McMaster Edited February 18, 2009 by Holy Ghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 ORGANISSIMO MEMBER TO CHEWY ORGANISSIMO MEMBER TO CHEWY: I prefer RVGs to McMasters. To each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Chewy and Ron Jeremy have one thing common..... Anyone care to guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldB3 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) What I'm thinking is that the masters were all discrete tapes. The errors on the RMcM resulted from the cues being put in the wrong place. That is, the material is all in the correct order so only the cues are wrong. On the RVG the material is not in the correct order, so it is no longer a matter of cue points, but of origin. Easily the most plausible explanation is that the digital RMcM transfers were used and simply reprocessed. If I m right then the dropping of the last few bars of Sat and Sun master, adding them to the start of Sat and Sun alt. will confirm as much. I don't have the RVG so I'd like someone to check it! Put it this way, if Sat and Sun master on the RVG clocks in at 10.13 or so that's the RMcM time. It should be more like 10.25. The RMcM alt. clocks at 8.47. Anyone? PS I check the timings as posted online and it seems that the master of Sat & Sun is the correct length. So the mystery deepens. I will check it tonight as I just got the disc this weekend. What was the deal with "weird track" at the end of Dialog? I have the pre RVG version of the CD. One thing about the RVG's is that they are really loud!, especially when you go from a RVG to say vinyl. Obviously going from Vinyl to CD its expected but with the RVG's its really noticeable. I think with the RVG's it depends on the system you use to gage what your response is for them. The topic of loudness has been addressed before with these so I won't get into it here. My take is for the Car and the Ipod they sound great, for sitting in front of you home system it might be too much depending on what you have. Edited February 18, 2009 by WorldB3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 The last time I did a "correction" thing with Blue Note, they mailed me a replacement disc, that was all there was to it. thanks for letting me know, Lon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six string Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 What I'm thinking is that the masters were all discrete tapes. The errors on the RMcM resulted from the cues being put in the wrong place. That is, the material is all in the correct order so only the cues are wrong. On the RVG the material is not in the correct order, so it is no longer a matter of cue points, but of origin. Easily the most plausible explanation is that the digital RMcM transfers were used and simply reprocessed. If I m right then the dropping of the last few bars of Sat and Sun master, adding them to the start of Sat and Sun alt. will confirm as much. I don't have the RVG so I'd like someone to check it! Put it this way, if Sat and Sun master on the RVG clocks in at 10.13 or so that's the RMcM time. It should be more like 10.25. The RMcM alt. clocks at 8.47. Anyone? PS I check the timings as posted online and it seems that the master of Sat & Sun is the correct length. So the mystery deepens. I have the RVG Remaster and here are the times listed on the cover. Saturday and Sunday 10:25 Frankenstein 8:22 Saturday and Sunday alt. 8:32 Listening to it I hear part of Saturday and Sunday at the beginning of Frankenstein for around a minute, maybe a little less. Although I bought this album last Tuesday it coincided with my mother's visit for a week so I haven't had a chance to really hear it yet. I had never heard this album prior to this release and I've been anxiously waiting for its release since I chose to not buy the Mosaic Select because I already owned enough of it to make its purchase a bad financial decision. I don't think I have the receipt for this cd anymore so I guess I'll wait for a possible fix from Bluenote and bypass the record store I bought it at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 What I'm thinking is that the masters were all discrete tapes. The errors on the RMcM resulted from the cues being put in the wrong place. That is, the material is all in the correct order so only the cues are wrong. On the RVG the material is not in the correct order, so it is no longer a matter of cue points, but of origin. Easily the most plausible explanation is that the digital RMcM transfers were used and simply reprocessed. If I m right then the dropping of the last few bars of Sat and Sun master, adding them to the start of Sat and Sun alt. will confirm as much. I don't have the RVG so I'd like someone to check it! Put it this way, if Sat and Sun master on the RVG clocks in at 10.13 or so that's the RMcM time. It should be more like 10.25. The RMcM alt. clocks at 8.47. Anyone? PS I check the timings as posted online and it seems that the master of Sat & Sun is the correct length. So the mystery deepens. I have the RVG Remaster and here are the times listed on the cover. Saturday and Sunday 10:25 Frankenstein 8:22 Saturday and Sunday alt. 8:32 Listening to it I hear part of Saturday and Sunday at the beginning of Frankenstein for around a minute, maybe a little less. Although I bought this album last Tuesday it coincided with my mother's visit for a week so I haven't had a chance to really hear it yet. I had never heard this album prior to this release and I've been anxiously waiting for its release since I chose to not buy the Mosaic Select because I already owned enough of it to make its purchase a bad financial decision. I don't think I have the receipt for this cd anymore so I guess I'll wait for a possible fix from Bluenote and bypass the record store I bought it at. Yeah interesting. So it's not the same as the RMcM but it is still the same kind of collossal error! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six string Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I was thinking that maybe with my stand alone cdr machine and the pause buttons of it and the cd player I could do a rustic electronic "splice" job to repair the error until I get a replacement disc. I suppose even if Bluenote does fix the error it will be a while before replacement discs will become available. That is one reason I would prefer keeping what I have until it's done. The other being that I have not found the receipt from last week's purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldB3 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 quote] Yeah interesting. So it's not the same as the RMcM but it is still the same kind of collossal error! Yes, you definitely hear the outro portion of Saturday and Sunday at the beginning of Frankenstein. I don't see myself playing the disc and not those two songs together but they still should have got it right. The fourth track Ghost Town is my favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Englewood Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) I had a look through the booklet for the RVG of "One Step Beyond", are they skimping on the photo's for these now? There used to be pics that were the size of the page but now there is just a small cropped one within the text of the notes, or is this just on the Euro versions??? Another cost cutting measure??? Edited February 22, 2009 by Cliff Englewood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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