When Charlie Parker died

[John L]

What I find more intriguing is the notion that Sun Ra killed Trane by putting a curse on him for stealing a lot of Ra's concepts without really "understanding" them.

Well hell, Trane even tried to take composer credit for "Saturn!"

Edited November 7, 2003 by John L

[chris olivarez]

Okay assuming that punches were thrown and one or more contributed to the demise of Mr. Parker it probably wouldn't be considered murder from a legal standpoint unless there was evidence that Blakey went to the apartment with the expressed intention of taking Parker's life but manslaughter might be a possibility.

I would like to know where Soupy's proof is that any of this went down the way he said it did?

Charlie Parker was/is one of the most brilliant musicians who ever has been on planet Earth but Parker by all accounts was not exactly a saint and probably made some enemies and it would not shock me if Art Blakey wasn't a saint either that is something that I could believe.

Parker and Blakey were both otherworldly musicians but just like everyone else they had pluses and minuses and unless there is proof to the contrary Blakey did not deserve to get villified the way he did by Soupy.

[bertrand]

Resurrecting this topic...

I finally actually did get a hold of a copy of Gourse's Blakey bio (I was just kidding before). DISCLAIMER: I did not buy it, I borrowed it at the Library.

She does not claim that Art killed Bird, of course. However, she relates an anecdote wherein Blakey claimed that he did visit Bird on the very day he died (earlier in the day I assume). I wonder if this is how the rumor got started?

It's of course hard to judge the veracity of this story. First, Blakey was an amazing tale spinner. Gourse harps on this point, but it was well-known before. Second, her scholarship is dubious at best - there are no footnotes or anything, so we don't know where she heard the story.

I am impressed that apparently, she did get to interview the reclusive Jymie Merritt. He sheds some light on Lee Morgan's killing at Slugs'.

She acknowledges the Blakey chronology by Mike Fitzgerald and Steve Schwartz in her intro, but then in the book proceeds to make statements that contradict it! Another gaffe: she tells a story about Blakey's driving habits that she got from John Hicks. She says Hicks got a ride from the Messengers group that recorded Mosaic, but then she claims that Lee Morgan was in the car! Such sloppy editing...

Bertrand.

Edited November 24, 2003 by bertrand

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Oh man - you're telling me that my name appears in a Leslie Gourse book?

Not good.

Mike

[jazzbo]

You'll survive it Mike. You're tough. And most of those who know YOU, well, they KNOW.

[bertrand]

Mike,

At least you weren't asked to contribute a blurb.

Bertrand.

[JSngry]

Leslie Gourse

Leslie Gore

Take your pick!

[bertrand]

From the dust jacket:

Wynton Marsalis: 'Art Blakely is the best drummer who ever played in my band'.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Leslie Gourse

or

A horse, of course.

[John L]

She does not claim that Art killed Bird, of course. However, she relates an anecdote wherein Blakey claimed that he did visit Bird on the very day he died (earlier in the day I assume). I wonder if this is how the rumor got started?

No, it is unlikely that Blakey's "fatefull visit" could have happened on the day that Bird died. Or at least that would cast serious doubt that whatever happened that day was responsible for Bird's death.

Recall that Bird was in very bad physical shape when he first showed up at Nica's three days before his death. He was in such bad shape that Nica called a doctor, who examined Bird and recommended immediate hospitalization, warning of possible death otherwise. Bird refused to be hospitalized and died a few days later.

The only way that Blakey could have really been responsble for Bird's death is if he had been the one who put Bird in that kind of shape, i.e. unless the fight happened earlier.

[Jazzmoose]

Oh man - you're telling me that my name appears in a Leslie Gourse book?

Not good.

Mike

Yes, but of course it appears as "Michael Gitzferald", so all is well...

[Bright Moments]

don't know how i missed this thread the first time around!

[BERIGAN]

don't know how i missed this thread the first time around!

I had that very same thought! 2003 was sooooo very long ago.

[bluesoul]

60 years ago today.

[jeffcrom]

I'm going to contribute a very minor bit of history, not widely known, I don't think. One of my saxophone students is a Rothschild, a guy in his 60s. He says that after Bird's death, the Baroness was evicted from her apartment by the management, due to the scandal.

Again, a minor footnote, but another little piece of the story.

[paul secor]

I've read that story elsewhere - can't recall where - as well.

[erwbol]

I think I read about it in Kelley's Monk Biography. Or else heard about it in Hannah Rothschild's documentary The Jazz Baroness.

Edited March 12, 2015 by erwbol

[uli]

fweiw der Spiegel on line memorized the day with an artcle unfortunately focusing on the scandels and a foto series

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/charlie-parker-jazz-saxophonist-zwischen-bebop-und-drogen-fotostrecke-124569.html

[BillF]

I think I read about it in Kelley's Monk Biography. Or else heard about it in Hannah Rothschild's documentary The Jazz Baroness.

Yes, Kelly's Monk biography. Wikipedia says that she permanently rented a suite at the Hotel Stanhope on Fifth Avenue, but that following Parker's death there, she was asked to leave by the hotel management and relocated to the Bolivar Hotel at 230 Central Park West.

Edited March 12, 2015 by BillF

[jeffcrom]

I think I read about it in Kelley's Monk Biography. Or else heard about it in Hannah Rothschild's documentary The Jazz Baroness.

Yes, Kelly's Monk biography. Wikipedia says that she permanently rented a suite at the Hotel Stanhope on Fifth Avenue, but that following Parker's death there, she was asked to leave by the hotel management and relocated to the Bolivar Hotel at 230 Central Park West.

Didn't remember that, and didn't know it was generally known.

[AllenLowe]

Nica hated the way she was portrayed in the Eastwood movie; Barry Harris told me that, after the premiere, Clint said, "Nica, what did you think of the film?"

she answered, "Clint, it was a gos."

(well, I'll explain in case it's not obvious; she is portrayed in a really stupid way in the movie, as a kind of mystery woman/femme fatale, when in reality she was quite down to earth; and at one point in the movie she says "it's a gas," but pronounces it as above with a very silly-sounding Hollywood/German sorta-Brit accent.)

Edited March 13, 2015 by AllenLowe

[GA Russell]

I think I read about it in Kelley's Monk Biography. Or else heard about it in Hannah Rothschild's documentary The Jazz Baroness.

Yes, Kelly's Monk biography. Wikipedia says that she permanently rented a suite at the Hotel Stanhope on Fifth Avenue, but that following Parker's death there, she was asked to leave by the hotel management and relocated to the Bolivar Hotel at 230 Central Park West.

I'm not familiar with the Bolivar Hotel. Was it the basis for the title of Monk's "Ba-lue Bolivar Ba-lues-are"?

60 years ago today.

Thanks bluesoul! And I'm guessing that today is the fiftieth anniversary of the Charlie Parker Memorial concert where Dave Lambert sang Donna Lee.

Edited March 13, 2015 by GA Russell

[mjzee]

And I'm guessing that today is the fiftieth anniversary of the Charlie Parker Memorial concert where Dave Lambert sang Donna Lee.

Nope, that was 3/27/65:

[BillF]

I think I read about it in Kelley's Monk Biography. Or else heard about it in Hannah Rothschild's documentary The Jazz Baroness.

Yes, Kelly's Monk biography. Wikipedia says that she permanently rented a suite at the Hotel Stanhope on Fifth Avenue, but that following Parker's death there, she was asked to leave by the hotel management and relocated to the Bolivar Hotel at 230 Central Park West.

I'm not familiar with the Bolivar Hotel. Was it the basis for the title of Monk's "Ba-lue Bolivar Ba-lues-are"?

According to Wikipedia, yes.

If things had played out differently, we might have had "Jumpin' at the Stanhope"!