Funny Rat

[Alexander Hawkins]

Yep, I have that one too. Why so little Warleigh on record?

Not sure - I should ask around - I don't even know if he's still playing. As soon as I heard him play on 'B My Dear', I wanted to track him down to try and do something! Great player. In fact - with that mention of Trevor Watts above - there were some damn good alto players around here in the 70s/80s/90s!

[Alexander Hawkins]

isn't warleigh on some late soft machine albums (which i do not know), too

will look that up

(also love his alto playing on bryter layter (especially on chime of the city clock))

edit: (from the discography at calyx.club.fr)

SOFT MACHINE - Land of Cockayne, 1981 (EMI) [CD: OneWay'96]

Karl Jenkins (syn/elp/p [10]) - John Marshall (d)

with: Allan Holdsworth (g [4/7/8/9]) - Jack Bruce (b [1/2/4/7-9]) - Alan Parker (g [1]) - John Taylor (elp [4/7/9]) - Ray Warleigh (as [5/9/10]/bfl [2/6]) - Dick Morrissey (ts [1/7/8]) - Stu Calver (bv [1/8]) - John Perry (bv [1/8]) - Tony Rivers (bv [1/8]) - orchestra [1/3/4/8]

Rec: 16 Jun-19 Jul 1980 - Loc: Pye & Riverside Studios, London - Eng: John Temperley & Terry Evenett [Pye], Neil Richmond [Riverside] - Pr: Mike Thorne

Tracks: 1. Over 'n' Above [KJ] (7:24) - 2. Lotus Groves [KJ] (4:57) - 3. Isle Of The Blessed [KJ] (1:56) - 4. Panoramania [KJ] (7:07) - 5. Behind The Crystal Curtain [KJ] (0:54) - 6. Palace Of Glass [KJ] (3:22) - 7. Hot-Biscuit Slim [KJ] (7:27) - 8. (Black) Velvet Mountain [KJ] (5:10) - 9. Sly Monkey [KJ] (5:00) - 10. 'A Lot Of What You Fancy...' [KJ] (0:35)

Wow - cool lineups!

[B. Clugston]

I saw Warleigh perform with the Dedication Orchestra last year.

I've never heard that last Soft Machine album, but it's been regarded as the group "in name only."

[P.L.M]

RAY WARLEIGH plays on the KENNY WHEELER's DREAM SEQUENCE that PSI (EVAN PARKER'S label) has published in 2003.

Edited August 22, 2006 by P.L.M

[clifford_thornton]

Also IIRC on Nick Drake's Bryter Later. Some Westbrook too, no?

[Niko]

Also IIRC on Nick Drake's Bryter Later. Some Westbrook too, no?

allmusic.com gives a (relatively) long list of recordings with Warleigh, most of it however is more or less pop... (and a short biography) there is an album as a leader... btw as miles davis is already spinning in his grave today, whatever Nick Drake to wanted tell us with it - its called bryter layter (the album title "five leaves left" comes from an "announcement" in a pack of cigarette papers)

i think its difficult to tell exactly where Soft Machine was not really itself anymore... (the departure of David Allen? Kevin Ayers? Robert Wyatt's singing? Robert Wyatt? Hugh Hopper?)... (for me, personally, the beginning of the end is the departure of kevin ayers and the real bitter dead end is karl jenkins and mike ratledge doing adiemus)

edit: i know David Allen is spelled differently

another edit: "ray warleigh's first album" was recently reissued on CD it seems...

Edited August 21, 2006 by Niko

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, the original Warleigh was on Philips. Have not heard it myself, but the LP used to run a fair chunk of change...

Spelling edit on the Drake, thanks for catching that. Not that I'm a big Drake fan (sold all the LPs years ago)...

[ep1str0phy]

Someone here is bound to be in the know (although a lot of internet discographies are in the dark)--anyone have any opinions on the available CD issues of Musica Elettronica Viva material?

[jazzscriveyn]

Also IIRC on Nick Drake's Bryter Later. Some Westbrook too, no?

allmusic.com gives a (relatively) long list of recordings with Warleigh, most of it however is more or less pop... (and a short biography) there is an album as a leader... btw as miles davis is already spinning in his grave today, whatever Nick Drake to wanted tell us with it - its called bryter layter (the album title "five leaves left" comes from an "announcement" in a pack of cigarette papers)

i think its difficult to tell exactly where Soft Machine was not really itself anymore... (the departure of David Allen? Kevin Ayers? Robert Wyatt's singing? Robert Wyatt? Hugh Hopper?)... (for me, personally, the beginning of the end is the departure of kevin ayers and the real bitter dead end is karl jenkins and mike ratledge doing adiemus)

edit: i know David Allen is spelled differently

another edit: "ray warleigh's first album" was recently reissued on CD it seems...

yes, on Mike Westbrook's METROPOLIS:

Mike Westbrook - (Piano)

Nigel Carter - (Trumpet)

Kenny Wheeler - (Trumpet, Flugelhorn, Mellophone)

Harold Beckett - (Trumpet, Flugelhorn)

Henry Lowther - (Trumpet, Flugelhorn)

Dave Holdsworth - (Trumpet, Flugelhorn)

Malcolm Griffiths - (Trombone)

Paul Rutherford - (Trombone, Euphonium)

Paul Nieman - (Trombone)

Derek Wadsworth - (Trombone)

Geoff Perkins - (Bass Trombone)

Mike Osborne - (Alto Sax, Clarinet)

Ray Warleigh - (Alto Sax, Flute)

Alan Skidmore - (Tenor Sax, Soprano Sax)

George Khan - (Tenor Sax)

John Warren - (Baritone Sax)

John Taylor - (Electric Piano)

Gary Boyle - (Guitar)

Harry Miller - (Bass, Cello)

Chris Laurence - (Bass Guitar, Bass)

Alan Jackson - (Drums)

John Marshall - (Drums)

Norma Winstone - (Vocal)

[Guest akanalog]

i think harry miller also plays e-bass on metropolis. i didn't realize john taylor was on it-i thought westerbrook played all the piano. great album, metropolis...

citadel/room 151 or whatever was such a disappointment compared to it. i like love songs a whole lot also.

[B. Clugston]

Someone here is bound to be in the know (although a lot of internet discographies are in the dark)--anyone have any opinions on the available CD issues of Musica Elettronica Viva material?

I only have Spacecraft/Unfied Patchwork Theory. The former is from the early days and it hurts listening to Ivan Vandor squalling on the alto sax. The latter is from 1990 or so and includes Steve Lacy and Garrett List and is quite good.

Allan Bryant has released some archival stuff, but I haven't heard it.

There's a couple of BYGs: The Sound Pool and Leave the City.

Alvin Curran on Leave the City (quoted in The Wire):

"Oh my god, that's a false MEV. Those are some French kids who robbed the name. They were once with us, they were a bunch of hippies from Paris, they took the name and turned this thing out. It was horrible. It's a bunch of hippies playing flutes. Sorry about that.

[ep1str0phy]

Someone here is bound to be in the know (although a lot of internet discographies are in the dark)--anyone have any opinions on the available CD issues of Musica Elettronica Viva material?

Alvin Curran on Leave the City (quoted in The Wire):

"Oh my god, that's a false MEV. Those are some French kids who robbed the name. They were once with us, they were a bunch of hippies from Paris, they took the name and turned this thing out. It was horrible. It's a bunch of hippies playing flutes. Sorry about that.

Ha! I was looking into that one, too (one of the few I could track down). Thanks for the reply, btw.

Edited August 24, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[Д.Д.]

[shrugs]

I saw Brotzmann/Parker/Wertmuller at the Vision fest in 2001.

Will never forget Brotz jumping up into the air playing his tenor on the final note.

He was happy and talkative at the end of the gig. Which was rare when I actually used to get the chance to see him regularly.

[jon abbey]

Someone here is bound to be in the know (although a lot of internet discographies are in the dark)--anyone have any opinions on the available CD issues of Musica Elettronica Viva material?

yeah, stay away from the BYG ones as mentioned. the Alga Marghen one is OK (Spacecraft/Unified Patchwork Theory), they were supposed to do 10 MEV CDs, but that doesn't seem to be moving along very fast. the best releases to come out on CD so far are the ones on Allan Bryant's IRML label:

http://www.forcedexposure.com/labels/irml.html

we have the first one of these on sale for $7, not sure if I pointed people here to our sale section or not, but it's here:

http://www.erstwhilerecords.com/distro/sale.html

[clifford_thornton]

Wow, I didn't realize those existed.

I have the BYGs (not bad, but...) and the Unified Patchwork CD, but haven't scored a copy of the Mainstream or Polydor titles yet.

[ep1str0phy]

(Thanks for the heads up, guys)

-It's strange though: the material is very hard to come by for such a historically important group. I have seen some of the IRMLs in store, but, outside of a BYG or two, MEV CDs are scarce. If anyone has any other sources, I'm sure the interest is there...

[jon abbey]

(Thanks for the heads up, guys)

-It's strange though: the material is very hard to come by for such a historically important group. I have seen some of the IRMLs in store, but, outside of a BYG or two, MEV CDs are scarce. If anyone has any other sources, I'm sure the interest is there...

that's all there are, the ones I listed above. the IRMLs are distributed by Forced Exposure, which is about as large as it gets in this world. like I said, 4 or 5 years ago when the first Alga Marghen release came out, the plan then was for them to do 10 MEV releases all together. my guess is that the material doesn't hold up so well (confirmed by the first Alga Marghen release), so maybe it's just been dropped.

but along roughly similar lines, there's a new archival box set from Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza, two unreleased CDs of material plus a DVD:

http://www.die-schachtel.com/html/ds13.htm

[B. Clugston]

In case it hasn't been mentioned, there's also a more recent AMM meets MEV CD.

[ep1str0phy]

[but along roughly similar lines, there's a new archival box set from Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza, two unreleased CDs of material plus a DVD:

http://www.die-schachtel.com/html/ds13.htm

That looks great, actually (wishing for dough).

[jon abbey]

In case it hasn't been mentioned, there's also a more recent AMM meets MEV CD.

ugh, right, blocked that one out of my head. it's two CDs, one CD of sextet collaboration, one CD with the two trio sets from FOTC. it was released against Keith Rowe's wishes, FWIW.

[B. Clugston]

In case it hasn't been mentioned, there's also a more recent AMM meets MEV CD.

ugh, right, blocked that one out of my head. it's two CDs, one CD of sextet collaboration, one CD with the two trio sets from FOTC. it was released against Keith Rowe's wishes, FWIW.

How is it? I seem to recall there wasn't a lot of positive buzz about it.

[jon abbey]

the MEV trio is awful, the AMM trio (their last show together, I believe) is unmemorable (and possibly has Keith mixed down quite a bit, although I can't swear to this), and the combined disc is far less than the sum of its parts. Keith was right to not want it out, but the other five overruled him.

[clifford_thornton]

but along roughly similar lines, there's a new archival box set from Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza, two unreleased CDs of material plus a DVD:

http://www.die-schachtel.com/html/ds13.htm

That looks great - wonder if it includes the infamous "Feedback Piece?" Apparently there's a shitload of unissued material, including about 20 or so custom LPs that they pressed up for themselves and friends back in the '60s. Yipes!

[ep1str0phy]

Funny Rat has been off this board for way too long (some agreement I wasn't made aware of?)...

Upped to say that I'm getting into the Japanese free improvisation thing (spurred on by some stuff that Clifford sent me)... and I just purchased a copy of Masayuki Takayanagi and New Direction Unit's Eclipse. My opinion is still formulating on this one, but it's beautiful, aggressive, exploratory stuff (maybe a little self-indulgent, too... in that early Brotzmann sort of way)--far more of a wash than even a lot of European improvisation sides (reminds me, a bit, of the blowout BYG jams--e.g. Seasons). The cats start at a high level and just keep upping the energy. This music isn't as brutal or heart-rending as, say, Albert Ayler or Brotz, and it doesn't seem to have the same caliber of dynamic intricacy that even the more free-wheeling of the European free improvisers. In fact--given Takayanagi's guitar theatrics--it comes across as a tangential direction on the EAI part of the evolutionary tree... loud and fearless, but not necessarily violent--searching in a manner that has as much to do with the nature and possibilities of the instrumentation as it does with the group dynamic. I'll be looking for more (I've got some Kaoru Abe in the mail).