Funny Rat

[Matthew]

I received my Ictus 30th Anniversary Box yesterday. Was anyone else afraid to open the cds? Hate messing up the beautiful band around the cd. Music is very nice also. Mine is #290. How many set were made? Highly recommended.

Consider it an achievement that you shelled out for it. I have no doubt that quite a bit of what's included on those records is very good--but talk about steep.

I find it ironic that the box is still the cheapest way to hear a lot of those albums. One of my favorite LA record shops was carrying an Ictus for $50 (unfortunately for me, it was the last one--the shop owner said a "couple of Japanese guys came in and bought up all the weird jazz--dropped about $300.").

Total price for the set, including S/H was $100.00, which I considered a steal since the set is brand new, and the individual cds are going for $15.00-$18.00. I'm really enjoying the music on the set, very interesting and some of it is just beautiful.

[clifford_thornton]

I received my Ictus 30th Anniversary Box yesterday. Was anyone else afraid to open the cds? Hate messing up the beautiful band around the cd. Music is very nice also. Mine is #290. How many set were made? Highly recommended.

Consider it an achievement that you shelled out for it. I have no doubt that quite a bit of what's included on those records is very good--but talk about steep.

I find it ironic that the box is still the cheapest way to hear a lot of those albums. One of my favorite LA record shops was carrying an Ictus for $50 (unfortunately for me, it was the last one--the shop owner said a "couple of Japanese guys came in and bought up all the weird jazz--dropped about $300.").

Dude, you only need like the first few LPs! That would set you back about the same - $100!

[Matthew]

So far good in terms of the cds that I've heard off the set. Right now I'm listening to In Concert that has Steve Lacy, Kent Carter, and Andrea Centazzo. Very nice. I usually don't like Lacy all that much, but this cd is one I'm enjoying a lot. Kent Carter especially is impressing me with his playing and interaction with Lacy.

[clifford_thornton]

I haven't heard Kent do anything that WASN'T impressive...

[ep1str0phy]

At the very least, I've always thought that Kent put in consistently good work with Lacy.

[clifford_thornton]

And that, in itself, is impressive!

[Martin]

Here is the link to the Ictus Records website: http://www.ictusrecords.com/

You see, there is MUCH more to explore than just the 30th anniversary edition. CD boxes all over...

[king ubu]

I'm home for the weekend between some more weeks in the army band, so forgive me for not going deeper into the thread and the web, but is this Ictus box different from the single disc releases that generally get lukewarm reviews in Penguin? I got four or five of those in a sale a couple of months ago, as yet unplayed... Is the stuff in the box better, if it's indeed different stuff, or are the Penguin chaps totally missing the point there?

[Matthew]

I'm home for the weekend between some more weeks in the army band, so forgive me for not going deeper into the thread and the web, but is this Ictus box different from the single disc releases that generally get lukewarm reviews in Penguin? I got four or five of those in a sale a couple of months ago, as yet unplayed... Is the stuff in the box better, if it's indeed different stuff, or are the Penguin chaps totally missing the point there?

They are the same. Each cd in the thirtieth anniversary is available individually. I happen to enjoy what I've heard so far, especially the cds with Steve Lacy. The other one I'm enjoying more than I expected. There is some very nice use of electronics, and some great moments outside the Lacy cds. I've enjoyed the set more that I thought I would. As to whether the Penguin's are missing the boat, I don't know because my taste/judgment on music often differs from them -- a lot.

[king ubu]

Thanks for your reply, Matthew - I'll have a look at the Ictus page (or was that the DMG page or something - the one with infos on the individual discs) once I'm done with the army crap (two more weeks to go). So the packaging is different, but the contents are the same?

[Matthew]

Thanks for your reply, Matthew - I'll have a look at the Ictus page (or was that the DMG page or something - the one with infos on the individual discs) once I'm done with the army crap (two more weeks to go). So the packaging is different, but the contents are the same?

These are the cds from the 30th anniversary box. The ones with Lacy are very good.

[clifford_thornton]

I have two with Lacy on LP, and would like to get the trio with E Parker and Curran. I suspect some of the late '70s NY stuff - with Polly Bradfield, John Zorn, Ladonna Smith, et al, might be of some interest (in a sort of "throw shit at the wall" fashion).

Nothing to do with anything:

Just heard the Zorn/Graves duo CD the other day. Would not have expected it to be as good as it is!

[king ubu]

Thanks for your reply, Matthew - I'll have a look at the Ictus page (or was that the DMG page or something - the one with infos on the individual discs) once I'm done with the army crap (two more weeks to go). So the packaging is different, but the contents are the same?

These are the cds from the 30th anniversary box. The ones with Lacy are very good.

Thanks for the link - looks different from the ones I have, or I haven't looked close enough to see...

John Carter/Centazzo/Vinnie Golia/Gregg Goodman - USA Concerts West (Ictus Reissue Series #3)

(trio with Carter/Golia, duo with Goodman - all previously unissued)

Centazzo/ALvin Curran/Evan Parker - Real Time One (Ictus Reissue Series #4)

(#1-4 orig. released as Ictus 0006, #5 prev. unreleased)

Centazzo/Trovesi - Shock!! (Ictus Reissue Series #9)

(orig. released as Ictus 0016)

Centazzo/Lol Coxhill/Franz Koglmann/Giancarlo Schiaffini - Situations (Ictus Reissue Series #12)*

(first 7 tracks - prev. unissued - are Koglmann/Coxhill/Centazzo, rest is Ictus 008 with Schiaffini & Coxhill)

These are on the Felmay label, rather than on Ictus itself, numbers are rdc 5028, rdc 5029, rdc 5043 & rdc 5046.

[Matthew]

Thanks for your reply, Matthew - I'll have a look at the Ictus page (or was that the DMG page or something - the one with infos on the individual discs) once I'm done with the army crap (two more weeks to go). So the packaging is different, but the contents are the same?

These are the cds from the 30th anniversary box. The ones with Lacy are very good.

Thanks for the link - looks different from the ones I have, or I haven't looked close enough to see...

John Carter/Centazzo/Vinnie Golia/Gregg Goodman - USA Concerts West (Ictus Reissue Series #3)

(trio with Carter/Golia, duo with Goodman - all previously unissued)

Centazzo/ALvin Curran/Evan Parker - Real Time One (Ictus Reissue Series #4)

(#1-4 orig. released as Ictus 0006, #5 prev. unreleased)

Centazzo/Trovesi - Shock!! (Ictus Reissue Series #9)

(orig. released as Ictus 0016)

Centazzo/Lol Coxhill/Franz Koglmann/Giancarlo Schiaffini - Situations (Ictus Reissue Series #12)*

(first 7 tracks - prev. unissued - are Koglmann/Coxhill/Centazzo, rest is Ictus 008 with Schiaffini & Coxhill)

These are on the Felmay label, rather than on Ictus itself, numbers are rdc 5028, rdc 5029, rdc 5043 & rdc 5046.

Comparing your list with the 30th Anniversary booklet, this is what I come up with:

Centazzo/ALvin Curran/Evan Parker - Real Time One = In Real Time

John Carter/Centazzo/Vinnie Golia/Gregg Goodman - USA Concerts West = The New US Concerts. It says in the booklet that it is a melding of "USA Concerts West" & "USA Concerts East" and other unreleased stuff.

Centazzo/Lol Coxhill/Franz Koglmann/Giancarlo Schiaffini - Situations (Ictus Reissue Series #12)*

(first 7 tracks - prev. unissued - are Koglmann/Coxhill/Centazzo, rest is Ictus 008 with Schiaffini & Coxhill). From what I can understand from the listings, the music here are spread across two cds: Thirty Years From Monday and Rebels, Travelers & Improvisers

Centazzo/Trovesi - Shock!! = Thirty Years From Monday. Don't know if the entire lp in on this cd. The two tracks of Trovesi/Centazzo are Trovecen #1 & #2.

It would seem to me that most of the music you have are a part of the 30th Anniversary set. Be warned though, I was a notoriously bad proof-reader in college, so I would not be surprised if I missed something.

[king ubu]

Thanks for double-checking, Matthew - it's a bit confusing... I'll take a mental note about the box for a later time anyway, as I have never seen any of the other single disc releases before or after that sale where I got those four.

[Matthew]

It is confusing. Just looking at the discography section of the booklet, it's obvious that they mix-and-matched various sessions from different releases for the box set cds.

[king ubu]

I best play the four discs I have first and then decide... although the ones with Lacy and Bailey I don't have and they look best to me...

[WD45]

Nothing to do with anything:

Just heard the Zorn/Graves duo CD the other day. Would not have expected it to be as good as it is!

There is a boot floating around of an even better performance out there with this duo as well. I listened to both of these, as sax/drum duos are a weak spot for me. Zorn occasionally gets on my nerves, but not so much on these sides. I even enjoy Graves' vocal contributions.

Makes me curious about those solo Graves discs on Tzadik...

[ep1str0phy]

Solo Graves is a good thing, what I've heard from the Tzadik sides included. That material is not quite so "wild" and "out" as a listener to Graves's 60's work might think, but it's very thoughtful, very deep (in its "beauty and complexity in simplicity" aesthetic I see some similarities to Gunter Sommer).

Have you guys heard the Graves/David Murray stuff? How is it?

[WD45]

Solo Graves is a good thing, what I've heard from the Tzadik sides included. That material is not quite so "wild" and "out" as a listener to Graves's 60's work might think, but it's very thoughtful, very deep (in its "beauty and complexity in simplicity" aesthetic I see some similarities to Gunter Sommer).

Have you guys heard the Graves/David Murray stuff? How is it?

I heard it several years ago, but was not yet in tune with Graves' thing. Can't remember much of it.

[clifford_thornton]

Graves is the shit.

I hear a lot of Graves' work in early Bennink and even some Tony Oxley (esp. on side two of How Many Clouds), not to mention Masahiko Togashi.

Graves' work really seemed to start getting into some other extra-musical plane of operation around Nommo, but who am I to say it wasn't there earlier? I dig the Kitty LP quite a bit too, especially the voice-and-piano bit on side two (think the tune is titled "Response").

Not a huge Zorn fan, obviously, but I think the duo with Graves is pretty fuckin' deep.

[ep1str0phy]

Haven't heard How Many Clouds, but it's obviously a hardcore band. I can definitely hear the Graves in Bennink and Oxley (a lot of the other Europeans, like sven-ake Johansson, too)--though I do get the feeling that a lot of the similarity might just be "cosmetic", if you catch my drift (in other words, it could very well be that Graves was just a freer evolution of the American thing, versus Messrs. Bennink, Oxley, etc. taking after Graves directly).

I'm going to see the ICP Orchestra in an hour and a half. I have a rehearsal or a talk or a gig or a music-related meeting basically every day these next two weeks, so it will be nice hearing someone else make sounds for a change...

[WD45]

I'm going to see the ICP Orchestra in an hour and a half. I have a rehearsal or a talk or a gig or a music-related meeting basically every day these next two weeks, so it will be nice hearing someone else make sounds for a change...

Lucky...

You must report back!

[clifford_thornton]

(a lot of the other Europeans, like sven-ake Johansson, too)

There ain't a lotta Milford in Schlingerland...

S-A has taken the pulsing sound-fields of Murray, and applied it more directly to the bass-drum and the toms, in my estimation. Therefore, he gets a more particular density (or expansion/contraction of such) than the (in some ways) lighter approach of Murray. It's pretty neat.

[ep1str0phy]

Doing some listening, CT, I think S-A is closer to Murray than Milford, though there's little doubt in my mind that Milford has a lot more in common with a lot of the European school than the American, post-Elvin crowd. Maybe the small-group Brotzmann stuff just drives the Murray/S-A thing home, but I think Murray is much, much more insistent in those clench, explosive spots (ala the Ayler Quartet on Vibrations). I wouldn't say that S-A doesn't have Murray's focus, but he certainly lacks Murray's obsessive psychology (that "nailing something to the wall" thing on the snare)--maybe that's why S-A is more "dense".

To illustrate--I was listening It Is In the Brewing Luminous on headphones sometime last week--in the dark, so the focus was dead-set (maybe I've just picked up a habit of listening to music right before bedtime). That one has both Jerome Cooper and Murray on percussion, and if you listen really close--I mean, just hone in on the drummers--you could swear Murray's almost fucking with Cooper. The divide between the two is extreme--Cooper is percussion as "color waves", playing all over the kit in slight, but seldom sparse, bursts... Murray spends entire durations of the improvisation on single parts of his kit (like, ten minutes on just the snare, ten minutes on just the cymbals)--that's not quite the Murray of the Ayler quartet, but it's surely the model for the more mature musician who ranks among his primary concerns acoustic theory and kit economy. I won't call it crazy, but there are few guys who would dive into a Cecil Taylor unit like that.

On ICP--it was great fun--celebratory (40th Anniversary of the ensemble), and there's a certain sense that the group has really come out of the patricidal, very dramatic "Emancipation" years with a total, focused vision...I guess refined would be the word, but only to the extent that the group is and has been very much what it is for decades now. This felt like a celebration of that. There's nothing formulaic, just a lot of focus...

Two things really stick in my mind about this incarnation of the group--(1) it's all-star (the website lists the personnel--which is baaaad, so don't miss it if it comes by your area), (2) the repertoire for this one felt a lot more recognizable than w/some of the other versions of the orchestra--there's still a lot of "generic" (if you can use that term) theatricalism, but some of it is surprisingly straightforward (I recognized some stuff off of Who's Bridge and a series of Ellington tunes, for two).

Finally, for those among us who think that Bennink has gotten too farcical--when was the last time y'all saw him play with just a kit (i.e., no blocks of cheese...). A lot of drummers can do one thing well, but--even taken as a jazz drummer (and he's easily much more)--Bennink can and does do everything well. I don't think I've ever seen another drummer with such an adaptable musical personality.

Also--Wolter Wierbos continues to kick ass.