Beatles Remasters coming! 09/09/09

[jazzbo]

I agree with you Deus. I severely dislike the drumming style of those drummers you mention, and Ringo rules as a small rock band drummer, and was able to lend magnificent structural support for the varied styles that Beatles songs ecompass.

[neveronfriday]

I agree with you Deus. I severely dislike the drumming style of those drummers you mention, and Ringo rules as a small rock band drummer, and was able to lend magnificent structural support for the varied styles that Beatles songs ecompass.

Ah, you remember the old moniker.

Might be confusing for a lot of people.

Re Ringo: I've always been a gut-feeling kind of guy and what has fascinated me about his playing is that you can actually hear that he was having fun. I have absolutely nothing theoretical or else to back that up with (although I often notice that loose and relaxed approach to what he was doing), but there are so many tunes that just ooze that "fun" vibe and that is something that - in my eyes (to my ears) - has become more and more rare.

There are too many highly-skilled drummers out there today that have had excellent schooling from before they were able to walk and are today, often at a rather young age, able to play things that people a decade or two before them wouldn't have been able to wrap their brains around. And then they start playing ... and it bores me. To. Death. It all sounds so forced and so damn polished, every note placed meticulously and every other tune streamlined to death. Sometimes you can even predict this or that change just because their upbringing and teaching told them to shift the beat, to insert a radically different break or to entirely drop out of a song just to "surprise" the listener. It's like watching those formulaic slasher films in which you just know that someone had planned that one single scene nobody was supposed to expect. Nevertheless, if you have seen more than 5 or 10 of those films, you know that it's time for that "surprising/let's trick the audience" moment ... again. Predictable. Boring. Tiring.

In short, I never get/got that feeling when I listen to Ringo play, and that makes him an excellent drummer in my book. Everyone else's mileage may vary considerably on this.

You know, I've ranted and raved against Charlie Watts' style for ages, simply because I thought he played the same beat over, and, over and over again, but today, as I have grown older, I'm beginning to appreciate that approach a lot more as well. Yes, predictable like hell, but so much better than all that modern wanking too many players display who are, unfortunately, idolized by the next generation of drummers growing up.

Note: Yes, there is a slew of excellent drummers today as well, I know, but ...

[J.A.W.]

I agree with you Deus. I severely dislike the drumming style of those drummers you mention, and Ringo rules as a small rock band drummer, and was able to lend magnificent structural support for the varied styles that Beatles songs ecompass.

Ah, you remember the old moniker.

Might be confusing for a lot of people.

Re Ringo: I've always been a gut-feeling kind of guy and what has fascinated me about his playing is that you can actually hear that he was having fun. I have absolutely nothing theoretical or else to back that up with (although I often notice that loose and relaxed approach to what he was doing), but there are so many tunes that just ooze that "fun" vibe and that is something that - in my eyes (to my ears) - has become more and more rare.

There are too many highly-skilled drummers out there today that have had excellent schooling from before they were able to walk and are today, often at a rather young age, able to play things that people a decade or two before them wouldn't have been able to wrap their brains around. And then they start playing ... and it bores me. To. Death. It all sounds so forced and so damn polished, every note placed meticulously and every other tune streamlined to death. Sometimes you can even predict this or that change just because their upbringing and teaching told them to shift the beat, to insert a radically different break or to entirely drop out of a song just to "surprise" the listener. It's like watching those formulaic slasher films in which you just know that someone had planned that one single scene nobody was supposed to expect. Nevertheless, if you have seen more than 5 or 10 of those films, you know that it's time for that "surprising/let's trick the audience" moment ... again. Predictable. Boring. Tiring.

In short, I never get/got that feeling when I listen to Ringo play, and that makes him an excellent drummer in my book. Everyone else's mileage may vary considerably on this.

You know, I've ranted and raved against Charlie Watts' style for ages, simply because I thought he played the same beat over, and, over and over again, but today, as I have grown older, I'm beginning to appreciate that approach a lot more as well. Yes, predictable like hell, but so much better than all that modern wanking too many players display who are, unfortunately, idolized by the next generation of drummers growing up.

Note: Yes, there is a slew of excellent drummers today as well, I know, but ...

I have the same feeling about a lot of instrumentalists these days, both classical and non-classical. Many of them are technically flawless and sometimes even brilliant, but the "feeling" (or whatever you want to call it) is lacking, at least to my ears; the music sounds emotionally detached and lifeless to me.

[JETman]

That's it, I'm convinced!!! Lon and NeveronFriday are actually the same person

[jazzbo]

No, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn we share a few ancestors. . . .

[neveronfriday]

No, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn we share a few ancestors. . . .

Do this:

a) Walk to next mirror (unless you removed them all ... as I did);

b) and have a look at your profile.

c) Large nose = common ancestors very likely! Welcome to the family.

d) Stubby, average ... something = common ancestors not bloody likely.

[neveronfriday]

That's it, I'm convinced!!! Lon and NeveronFriday are actually the same person

I'm actually thinking of changing that to AlwaysOnSaturday.

Or FrequentlyOnSunday.

Let me have a Caracas Libre while I consider my options.

[jazzbo]

No, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn we share a few ancestors. . . .

Do this:

a) Walk to next mirror (unless you removed them all ... as I did);

b) and have a look at your profile.

c) Large nose = common ancestors very likely! Welcome to the family.

d) Stubby, average ... something = common ancestors not bloody likely.

Medium nose. . . so . . . maybe not likely ancestors, but a possibility.

Lots of ancestors from Moravia known, some from Scotland and Ireland. . . as with all of us many others.

Kindred spirits in some ways: very likely.

[Brad]

I agree with you Deus. I severely dislike the drumming style of those drummers you mention, and Ringo rules as a small rock band drummer, and was able to lend magnificent structural support for the varied styles that Beatles songs ecompass.

Ah, you remember the old moniker.

Might be confusing for a lot of people.

Re Ringo: I've always been a gut-feeling kind of guy and what has fascinated me about his playing is that you can actually hear that he was having fun. I have absolutely nothing theoretical or else to back that up with (although I often notice that loose and relaxed approach to what he was doing), but there are so many tunes that just ooze that "fun" vibe and that is something that - in my eyes (to my ears) - has become more and more rare.

There are too many highly-skilled drummers out there today that have had excellent schooling from before they were able to walk and are today, often at a rather young age, able to play things that people a decade or two before them wouldn't have been able to wrap their brains around. And then they start playing ... and it bores me. To. Death. It all sounds so forced and so damn polished, every note placed meticulously and every other tune streamlined to death. Sometimes you can even predict this or that change just because their upbringing and teaching told them to shift the beat, to insert a radically different break or to entirely drop out of a song just to "surprise" the listener. It's like watching those formulaic slasher films in which you just know that someone had planned that one single scene nobody was supposed to expect. Nevertheless, if you have seen more than 5 or 10 of those films, you know that it's time for that "surprising/let's trick the audience" moment ... again. Predictable. Boring. Tiring.

In short, I never get/got that feeling when I listen to Ringo play, and that makes him an excellent drummer in my book. Everyone else's mileage may vary considerably on this.

You know, I've ranted and raved against Charlie Watts' style for ages, simply because I thought he played the same beat over, and, over and over again, but today, as I have grown older, I'm beginning to appreciate that approach a lot more as well. Yes, predictable like hell, but so much better than all that modern wanking too many players display who are, unfortunately, idolized by the next generation of drummers growing up.

Note: Yes, there is a slew of excellent drummers today as well, I know, but ...

I have the same feeling about a lot of instrumentalists these days, both classical and non-classical. Many of them are technically flawless and sometimes even brilliant, but the "feeling" (or whatever you want to call it) is lacking, at least to my ears; the music sounds emotionally detached and lifeless to me.

Might have something to with that it's more of a profession today, more of a job and sometimes the love goes out of it. I know it's not the same thing but a baseball player once said "you have to be a man to play this game but you have to have a lot of little boy in you."

[neveronfriday]

Might have something to with that it's more of a profession today, more of a job and sometimes the love goes out of it. I know it's not the same thing but a baseball player once said "you have to be a man to play this game but you have to have a lot of little boy in you."

Yes, you're probably right, and I like that quote.

But ... there are many bands out there who haven't been gobbled up by the industry yet. I have no idea if the Mars Volta have, but here goes an anecdote.

A few years back I walked into this rather small venue which had this wild-looking poster up front, screaming "The Mars Volta! Live!". I had never heard of them and actually just wanted an hour of relaxation after a tough day at a conference.

To say I was blasted out the door backwards again as I tried to get in is an understatement, but when I had finally managed to grab hold to a table bolted to the floor, I noticed this: I didn't really like the music I heard, but it had so much raw power and a fun (partly ... if you consider some of their gloom and doom tracks) vibe to it that it turned out to have been one of the most refreshing musical experiences of the past years. I loved that concert. Everyone in there was about 100 years younger than me, but the band swept me away completely. What an evening.

[WorldB3]

Ringo's drumming, I've discovered, is fantastic...I guess this makes me a little puzzled over the story I've heard that Paul would come into the studio during the recording of the White Album and lay his own drum tracks for some of the cuts, discarding the work that Ringo had done. I still can't wrap my head around that...either my assessment of Ringo's skill is not accurate, Paul was a dyed-in-the-wool perfectionist with a big ego, or these stories regarding Paul are unfounded.

Paul was considered a good drummer back in the Hamburg days and when the Beatles came back to Liverpool before they blew up and when they didn't have their own gigs Paul would sometimes sit it with other bands and play drums.

However when Ringo walked out on the White Album sessions they couldn't wait for him to get back as they felt Ringo was the anchor.

[neveronfriday]

Medium nose. . . so . . . maybe not likely ancestors, but a possibility.

Lots of ancestors from Moravia known, some from Scotland and Ireland. . . as with all of us many others.

Kindred spirits in some ways: very likely.

Kindred spirits ... surely.

Just quickly: Is that an American "medium nose" or a German-style "medium nose"? If it is the latter, we're actually (statistically) talking about a very large nose. Just wanted to clear that up.

[Alexander]

Ringo's drumming, I've discovered, is fantastic...I guess this makes me a little puzzled over the story I've heard that Paul would come into the studio during the recording of the White Album and lay his own drum tracks for some of the cuts, discarding the work that Ringo had done. I still can't wrap my head around that...either my assessment of Ringo's skill is not accurate, Paul was a dyed-in-the-wool perfectionist with a big ego, or these stories regarding Paul are unfounded.

Paul was considered a good drummer back in the Hamburg days and when the Beatles came back to Liverpool before they blew up and when they didn't have their own gigs Paul would sometimes sit it with other bands and play drums.

However when Ringo walked out on the White Album sessions they couldn't wait for him to get back as they felt Ringo was the anchor.

I've always heard that a lot the tracks Ringo didn't drum on during the "White Album" sessions were largely due to the fact that the group was working on three or four tracks at a time in different studios, so Ringo wasn't always available. Since Paul could play drums, he just laid down his own drum track while Ringo was off playing on a John or George song.

Not that ego might not have been a factor, but I think practical considerations were as much of a factor.

Now as to Paul (and sometimes John) playing guitar parts later credited to George, if you've ever heard the outtakes from their first few albums, you know how far behind the others George really was in terms of playing ability. Some of those guitar solos are clam fests. It really sounds like George had to literally compose his solos, because he sure as hell couldn't improvise for shit. So it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there were occasions where Paul or John had to take over and play a solo because George wasn't giving them what they wanted. Not that he didn't improve rapidly. By "Abbey Road" he was every bit an equal to Paul and John as a singer, a songwriter, and as a musician. But when they started, Paul and John were clearly on another plane from George.

[jazzbo]

Hmmm. . . .I need help . . . medium German?

Edited September 18, 2009 by jazzbo

[vajerzy]

That be you?

[jazzbo]

Yes. That would.

[neveronfriday]

Hmmm. . . .I need help . . . medium German?

Hm.

Err, ...

... you've got something there.

I just don't know what.

It's definitely far too straight to have anything to do with my roots, and it's too middle of the road to really be a genuine German one, so, I guess, I would go with the Northern European influence.

P.S.: It's funny how these threads get derailed once in a while.

[ep1str0phy]

no telling who was playing what on certain things; Paul played A LOT of the guitar solos that were credited to George. And rumor has it that George Shearing (who is British, after all) played the piano parts for the rooftop concerts. I always wondered about the block chords on Get Back -

Christ, I just found out that Paul played the solo on "Good Morning, Good Morning," which is one of the best Beatles solos for me, period. A fine, fine rock soloist.

There were also those rumors that Clapton played some of the solos on the White Album (an old teacher of mine tried to convince me that he played the lead breakdown on "I Want You," but I don't buy it--the articulation is all wrong).

[David Ayers]

That be you?

That's the man! I just hope the police can free that hostage he's abducted.

[Cliff Englewood]

Christ, I just found out that Paul played the solo on "Good Morning, Good Morning," which is one of the best Beatles solos for me, period. A fine, fine rock soloist.

And if you have "Revelution In The Head" you'd even know what kind of guitar Paul was playing on that very solo.

[Brad]

Where did you read that Paul was playing that solo?

[Brad]

no telling who was playing what on certain things; Paul played A LOT of the guitar solos that were credited to George. And rumor has it that George Shearing (who is British, after all) played the piano parts for the rooftop concerts. I always wondered about the block chords on Get Back -

Christ, I just found out that Paul played the solo on "Good Morning, Good Morning," which is one of the best Beatles solos for me, period. A fine, fine rock soloist.

There were also those rumors that Clapton played some of the solos on the White Album (an old teacher of mine tried to convince me that he played the lead breakdown on "I Want You," but I don't buy it--the articulation is all wrong).

The recording notes on the stereo version of the White Albums says that Harrison asked Clapton to play the solo "On While My Guitar Gentlyl Weeps."

[Cliff Englewood]

Where did you read that Paul was playing that solo?

In this, in my opinion definitive, Beatles book.

From wikipedia;

"In his book Revolution in the Head: The Beatles' Records and the Sixties, first published in 1994, MacDonald carefully anatomised every record The Beatles made, drawing attention to broad themes, particular examples of inspiration and moments of human frailty alike. The book contains forensic song by song analysis; access to the original masters were granted to MacDonald when researching it."

Pity he came to such a horrible end, he was clearly a brilliant writer, so much so in fact, I wouldn't actually mind reading his book on Shostakovich.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Cliff Englewood

[Brad]

Thanks. My birthday is coming up so I guess I'll ask for this

[jazzbo]

Hmmm. . . .I need help . . . medium German?

Hm.

Err, ...

... you've got something there.

I just don't know what.

It's definitely far too straight to have anything to do with my roots, and it's too middle of the road to really be a genuine German one, so, I guess, I would go with the Northern European influence.

P.S.: It's funny how these threads get derailed once in a while.

I like the derailments and returns. Very conversation like!