Ron S Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) Not unusual for pressing plants to have over runs, shelve them and (if they are nice) eventually offer them to the label. Otherwise they are scrapped. I'd guess this means Mosaic has some partial sets too. Color me confused. I ordered the Parlan set, and it arrived last week. It's terrific. But how does Mosaic not know whether it is sold out of a set or not? Don't they have inventory control software to let them know what has sold and what has not, ESPECIALLY since every box has a specific number in the limited edition run? And here's what I find doubly interesting/concerning: my box that arrived last week is #3,465 of 5,000. I know they don't necessarily sell them in numerical order, but it raises a little doubt in my mind about the accuracy of their numbering system. How do they keep track of what number to assign a given box? Why didn't they know they'd never sold #3,465? I'm not accusing Mosaic of any shady practices, but it does look a little sloppy and loosey-goosey. Well, the CDs in these particular sets were recently discovered at the plant that manufactured them, not at Mosaic's facility, so it wasn't a case of Mosaic not realizing that it had them. Also, the big box sets (as opposed to the Selects) ARE numbered sequentially as they're sold, and those sequential numbers are maintained and generated by Mosaic's computer system (which is why they appear on the computer-generated invoices shipped with the sets). So in a situation like this, where Mosaic suddenly finds itself with additional CDs of otherwise OOP sets, it's easy for it to pick up the numbering where it left off when the set originally went OOP. Edited July 26, 2009 by Ron S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Life Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) Well, the CDs in these particular sets were recently discovered at the plant that manufactured them, not at Mosaic's facility, so it wasn't a case of Mosaic not realizing that it had them. Also, the big box sets (as opposed to the Selects) ARE numbered sequentially as they're sold, and those sequential numbers are maintained and generated by Mosaic's computer system (which is why they appear on the computer-generated invoices shipped with the sets). So in a situation like this, where Mosaic suddenly finds itself with additional CDs of otherwise OOP sets, it's easy for it to pick up the numbering where it left off when the set originally went OOP. That still doesn't make sense to me. I thought the Parlan box set had "sold out" last December, that it was not a case of the license expired. Obviously, the license must not have expired if they put these sets up for sale last week. But if, as you suggest, it's easy for it to pick up the numbering where it left off when the set originally went OOP, then that suggests that Mosaic fell more than 1,000 copies short of a sell-out. If that's true, why was it listed as sold out last December? Or is it just a case of they had these spare booklets with numbers assigned, but not enough discs to fill them? In other words, they sold box #4,999 and box #5,000 a long time ago, but the booklet for my #3,465 was sitting around as an orphan without discs...(and if my last scenario is true, it still raises a question in my mind about the accuracy of the inventory control software and procedures) Edited July 26, 2009 by Lush Life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 I don't care how or why Mosaic came up with a Capitol box to sell to me. I'm just glad I had another chance to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Well, the CDs in these particular sets were recently discovered at the plant that manufactured them, not at Mosaic's facility, so it wasn't a case of Mosaic not realizing that it had them. Also, the big box sets (as opposed to the Selects) ARE numbered sequentially as they're sold, and those sequential numbers are maintained and generated by Mosaic's computer system (which is why they appear on the computer-generated invoices shipped with the sets). So in a situation like this, where Mosaic suddenly finds itself with additional CDs of otherwise OOP sets, it's easy for it to pick up the numbering where it left off when the set originally went OOP. That still doesn't make sense to me. I thought the Parlan box set had "sold out" last December, that it was not a case of the license expired. Obviously, the license must not have expired if they put these sets up for sale last week. But if, as you suggest, it's easy for it to pick up the numbering where it left off when the set originally went OOP, then that suggests that Mosaic fell more than 1,000 copies short of a sell-out. If that's true, why was it listed as sold out last December? Or is it just a case of they had these spare booklets with numbers assigned, but not enough discs to fill them? In other words, they sold box #4,999 and box #5,000 a long time ago, but the booklet for my #3,465 was sitting around as an orphan without discs...(and if my last scenario is true, it still raises a question in my mind about the accuracy of the inventory control software and procedures) Geez! Do you need a government commission to look into this? Believe me, they never sold close to 5000 copies of a Parlan set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Well, the CDs in these particular sets were recently discovered at the plant that manufactured them, not at Mosaic's facility, so it wasn't a case of Mosaic not realizing that it had them. Also, the big box sets (as opposed to the Selects) ARE numbered sequentially as they're sold, and those sequential numbers are maintained and generated by Mosaic's computer system (which is why they appear on the computer-generated invoices shipped with the sets). So in a situation like this, where Mosaic suddenly finds itself with additional CDs of otherwise OOP sets, it's easy for it to pick up the numbering where it left off when the set originally went OOP. That still doesn't make sense to me. I thought the Parlan box set had "sold out" last December, that it was not a case of the license expired. Obviously, the license must not have expired if they put these sets up for sale last week. But if, as you suggest, it's easy for it to pick up the numbering where it left off when the set originally went OOP, then that suggests that Mosaic fell more than 1,000 copies short of a sell-out. If that's true, why was it listed as sold out last December? Or is it just a case of they had these spare booklets with numbers assigned, but not enough discs to fill them? In other words, they sold box #4,999 and box #5,000 a long time ago, but the booklet for my #3,465 was sitting around as an orphan without discs...(and if my last scenario is true, it still raises a question in my mind about the accuracy of the inventory control software and procedures) Geez! Do you need a government commission to look into this? Believe me, they never sold close to 5000 copies of a Parlan set. Um, Chuck.....why are you trying to bigfoot the guy when he has a legit question? Yeah, so why was it listed as sold out? ...and if they didn't sell 5,000 sets ...then how many?? 'Believe me,' you say. I do.....but in that Reagan 'trust but verify' sense. Tell us everything you know -- not only about the sales figures for this set....but also if the rumor is true that McDonald's milkshakes really do contain some form of digestible plastic? pleeazzze! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmonahan Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Now, if only they'd discover a few of the Nat King Cole Capitol and Art Hodes Blue Note sets lying around in some distributor/manufacturer warehouse some place! greg mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Life Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Geez! Do you need a government commission to look into this? Believe me, they never sold close to 5000 copies of a Parlan set. Okay, I'm a big boy and can take the mocking, but I'm still curious, even if you aren't. So why was it declared sold out last December? Did they have authorization to print 5,000 copies, but only pressed, let's say, 2,000? And when those sold, it was "sold out" because they didn't want to incur the expense of a big press run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jostber Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Now, if only they'd discover a few of the Nat King Cole Capitol and Art Hodes Blue Note sets lying around in some distributor/manufacturer warehouse some place! greg mo And the T-Bone Walker set too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 There are two ways that sets time out, the lease period runs out, or they sell the allotted number of copies. I suspect the former is the case with the Parlan. They may have an agreement with the owner of the material (who in this case own half the business I believe, EMI) that if there are manufactured copies of a set after the lease times out they can sell those. That would perfectly fit this situation. All three of the recent "finds" are EMI properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 There are two ways that sets time out, the lease period runs out, or they sell the allotted number of copies. I suspect the former is the case with the Parlan. They may have an agreement with the owner of the material (who in this case own half the business I believe, EMI) that if there are manufactured copies of a set after the lease times out they can sell those. That would perfectly fit this situation. All three of the recent "finds" are EMI properties. Just to add to that: these days, very few--if any--sets sell out the maximum permitted number of edition copies (e.g., 5,000 for the Parlan). Instead, the lease runs out before the entire potential edition is produced. And to answer Lush Life's other question, Mosaic does have only a poriton of the total potential edition produced at one time, and then reorders more copies as inventory is exhausted (which is why several sets are currently on backorder), so that lease terms typically expire before the entire potential edition is ever produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Life Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 There are two ways that sets time out, the lease period runs out, or they sell the allotted number of copies. I suspect the former is the case with the Parlan. They may have an agreement with the owner of the material (who in this case own half the business I believe, EMI) that if there are manufactured copies of a set after the lease times out they can sell those. That would perfectly fit this situation. All three of the recent "finds" are EMI properties. Thanks, jazzbo, this explanation is really helpful, I appreciate the clarification of what seemed like a contradictory situation to me regarding the Parlan box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theteach Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 I wish Jazztet sets could be found as well. Is it me or did that liscense run out awfully fast? Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranemonk Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Yea. and you know HOW many people would beat down their door for the Cole??? I'm in first in line... :crazy: Now, if only they'd discover a few of the Nat King Cole Capitol and Art Hodes Blue Note sets lying around in some distributor/manufacturer warehouse some place! greg mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranemonk Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 FYI... My Herman Set arrived today.... :tup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save0904 Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 ... and I finally got my shipping notice for the Parlan set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmonahan Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 All of this brings up another issue--the booklets. I assume Mosaic owns the copyright on those. I wonder if they could be persuaded to sell those alone either in print or for download from their site. As only two examples, I have all the Tina Brooks material and all the Freddie Redd material because it's been issued by Blue Note itself, but I'd love to have those Mosaic booklets from the out of print sets to go with that music! greg mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted July 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) All of this brings up another issue--the booklets. I assume Mosaic owns the copyright on those. I wonder if they could be persuaded to sell those alone either in print or for download from their site. As only two examples, I have all the Tina Brooks material and all the Freddie Redd material because it's been issued by Blue Note itself, but I'd love to have those Mosaic booklets from the out of print sets to go with that music! greg mo As far as I know they do still have a few booklets from OOP sets, and they are selling them for $20 each. No downloads. Edited July 27, 2009 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellowT Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 All of this brings up another issue--the booklets. I assume Mosaic owns the copyright on those. I wonder if they could be persuaded to sell those alone either in print or for download from their site. As only two examples, I have all the Tina Brooks material and all the Freddie Redd material because it's been issued by Blue Note itself, but I'd love to have those Mosaic booklets from the out of print sets to go with that music! greg mo As far as I know they do still have a few booklets from OOP sets, and they are selling them for $20 each. No downloads. Yeah, the trick is figuring out what they still have available. Unfortunately it seems to be a hit or miss situation. If only Scott Wenzel published his list of excess OOP stock, things would be a lot easier. As it stands now, you have to email him and ask about a particular item's availability. Last I checked, boxes go for $10, booklets $20, and CDs $16. Standard shipping rates apply. BTW, within the last year I've picked up an extra Parlan box, a CD and booklet from Classic Capitol Jazz, and a booklet from Chico Hamilton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I would mildly recommend the Parlan set for those of you interested... I'll go one further and strongly recommend it. I second that! I third it! Despite Ron's recommendation, I ordered this based on JAW & Sidewinder's thumbs-ups. #3544 arrived here today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I would mildly recommend the Parlan set for those of you interested... I'll go one further and strongly recommend it. I second that! I third it! Despite Ron's recommendation, I ordered this based on JAW & Sidewinder's thumbs-ups. #3544 arrived here today. Damn! I was hoping that my recommendation would cause you NOT to order it so that there'd be one more left for the COOL kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmonahan Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 All of this brings up another issue--the booklets. I assume Mosaic owns the copyright on those. I wonder if they could be persuaded to sell those alone either in print or for download from their site. As only two examples, I have all the Tina Brooks material and all the Freddie Redd material because it's been issued by Blue Note itself, but I'd love to have those Mosaic booklets from the out of print sets to go with that music! greg mo As far as I know they do still have a few booklets from OOP sets, and they are selling them for $20 each. No downloads. Yeah, the trick is figuring out what they still have available. Unfortunately it seems to be a hit or miss situation. If only Scott Wenzel published his list of excess OOP stock, things would be a lot easier. As it stands now, you have to email him and ask about a particular item's availability. Last I checked, boxes go for $10, booklets $20, and CDs $16. Standard shipping rates apply. BTW, within the last year I've picked up an extra Parlan box, a CD and booklet from Classic Capitol Jazz, and a booklet from Chico Hamilton. I emailed Scott and ordered up several booklets: 106: Tina Brooks 124: Freddie Redd 202: Vee Jay Morgan/Shorter 205: Vee Jay Chambers/Kelly 114: Art Hodes 123: Commodore Recordings, Vol. I 145: Don Cherry I also wanted the booklets from the other two Commodore sets and the Nat King Cole set, but no go on those. With the exception of Hodes and all the Commodores, the music from the other sets has been made available from other labels, so with the booklets, I can think of them as d-list Mosaic sets. As for the Hodes and the Commodore, I ordered them because I'm an eternal optimist! greg mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martini Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Just ordered the Parlan set. I feel fortunate to have a second chance on this one. The session info looks dynamite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 The Parlan set's gone again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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