Jazz CD sales down by 80% since 2001!

[david weiss]

In LA there's always Amoeba but I've found a couple of interesting stores in the Valley. One actually carries a lot of new jazz cds.

(I don't know their names, I just know where they are-- one's near Woodman and ones in Encino (I think).

CD Trader in Tarzana is good, I always find stuff there and reasonably priced.

[Victor Christensen]

I only buy online, and can usually find what I want if not OOP, I have a online media shop in Denmark where I can find the most

I want, and then I buy quite a lot from Jazz Messengers in Barcelona, but is about to stop, I have already too much, I play 8 hours a day, but still have lots that I have not listened too for years.

so far this year I have purchased 74 CD's, lol

Vic

[david weiss]

So much to comment on here....and so many of you guys are dead on with your observations.

First, that is a big drop in sales from 2007 to 2008 but there can be a lot of factors involved in that drop. There is the Kenny G factor where back in the day, jazz sales would double in a year Kenny G had an album out. Now maybe Chris Botti does this. It could also be that with the major labels dropping out like they have been this drop is a reflection of their putting out a lot less product from one year to the next and maybe to a lesser extent, no Miles Davis box set and that there isn't a lot left out there to reissue.

As for the nothing to buy argument, I'm not buying that one. There is a lot of great music being released these days and I'm a pretty tough critic. There is always plenty of new stuff I'm interested in checking out. That is one aspect of this site I wish was more active and that there would be more discussion in the new release forums. There is a lot of new stuff coming out, probably too much and sites like this can be invaluable in sifting through all the crap and finding the solid, interesting stuff and the few gems that do come out.

The problem to me has always been this; CDs are too expensive and always have been. All new products and mediums are expensive when they first introduced to the public but if they are accepted into the mainstream, the prices are lowered to more acceptable levels for the masses. This never happened with CDs. Everyone got a little greedy. Soon people who just wanted to get their favorite hit single had to pay $16.99 for the whole CD (that CD single thing never worked) and that created Napster and on and on until where we are today.

I was tempted to start a thread about this but got too busy. When the Union Square Virgin in New York closed a while back I went there a few times as they were in my neighborhood. From what I could see, it looked like they sold well over half of their stock at 40% off. At 50% off, at least 70% and maybe as much as 80% of their stock was sold. This is when I bought some CDs as well. I got the new Corea/McLaughlin 2 CD set for $10 and bought a couple of Criss Crosses, the new Dave Holland Sextet CD and a Graham Collier 2 CD set. A week later at 80% off, the place was still mobbed and I found another 5 or 6 CDs I was curious about and was willing to take a risk and get them at $4 a pop new. One thing I found interesting was there were about 30 or 40 CDs left in jazz section at the end and 10 of them were the Aaron Parks Blue Note CD.

So, if you can sell more than half your store and it is a huge store at 40% off, isn't that a pretty clear indication that there is a market out there and that it's just that these fuckers are too expensive.

In the US, I generally sell my CDs at gigs for $10. That seems fair to me and I'm not selling myself short. The funny thing is sometimes people insist on giving me $15 or $20 for them anyway.

It is also clear that CDs are way too expensive in Europe and in Japan. As much as I love browsing in stores, if I lived there, I would probably buy most of my stuff on-line.

Edited July 31, 2009 by david weiss

[medjuck]

In LA there's always Amoeba but I've found a couple of interesting stores in the Valley. One actually carries a lot of new jazz cds.

(I don't know their names, I just know where they are-- one's near Woodman and ones in Encino (I think).

CD Trader in Tarzana is good, I always find stuff there and reasonably priced.

That's the one I meant when I said Encino. I've found some pretty rare stuff there. (eg. a Joya Sherill cd.)

[medjuck]

So much to comment on here....and so many of you guys are dead on with your observations.

First, that is a big drop in sales from 2007 to 2008 but that can be a lot of factors involved in that drop. There is the Kenny G factor where back in the day, jazz sales would double in a year Kenny G had an album out. Now maybe Chris Botti does this. It could also be that with the major dropping out like they have been this drop is a reflection of their putting out a lot less product from one year to the next and maybe to a lesser extent, no Miles Davis box set and that there isn't a lot left to reissue.

As for the nothing to buy argument, I'm not buying that one. There is a lot of great music being released these days and I'm a pretty tough critic. There is always plenty of new stuff I'm interested in checking out. That is one aspect of this site I wish was more active and that there would be more discussion in the new release forums. There is a lot of new stuff coming out, probably too much and sites like this can be invaluable in sifting through all the crap and finding the solid, interesting stuff and the few gems that do come out.

The problem to me has always been this; CDs are too expensive and always have been. All new products and mediums are expensive when they first introduced to the public but if they are accepted into the mainstream, the prices are lowered to more acceptable levels for the masses. This never happened with CDs. Everyone got a little greedy. Soon people who just wanted to get their favorite hit single had to pay $16.99 for the whole CD (that CD single thing never worked) and that created Napster and on and on until where we are today.

I was tempted to start a thread about this but got too busy. When the Union Square Virgin in New York closed a while back I went there a few times as they were in my neighborhood. From what I could see, it looked like they sold well over half of their stock at 40% off. At 50% off, at least 70% and maybe as much as 80% of their stock was sold. This is when I bought some CDs as well. I got the new Corea/McLaughlin 2 CD set for $10 and bought a couple of Criss Crosses, the new Dave Holland Sextet CD and a Graham Collier 2 CD set. A week later at 80% off, the place was still mobbed and I found another 5 or 6 CDs I was curious about and was willing to take a risk and get them at $4 a pop new.

So, if you can sell more than half your store and it is a huge store at 40% off, isn't that a pretty clear indication that there is a market out there and that it's just that these fuckers are too expensive.

In the US, I generally sell my CDs at gigs for $10. That seems fair to me and I'm not selling myself short. The funny thing is sometimes people insist on giving me $15 or $20 for them anyway.

It is also clear that CDs are way too expensive in Europe and in Japan. As much as I love browsing in stores, if I lived there, I would probably buy most of my stuff on-line.

I agree with all this. A fairly new movie can be found on DVD for $9.99 but the soundtrack may cost $18. For too the only method record companies could think of to make more money was to raise their prices. Look at the rush here to buy things from the Concord/Oldies sale.

[Chuck Nessa]

edit to say I was responding to David.

I don't accept your premise that prices are too high. At the end of the lp era (20 years ago) the price of a 35-40 minute lp was close to $10. Consider inflation. If I accept your premise and prices should have dropped on cds, the giant reduction in sales has kept the price high - as has the yearly jump in publishing royalties. I am working on a new release and the budget for it. When I get it issued, I will have to sell more than I have sold of any cd just to break even - not counting my time. Just don't ask why I keep doing it.

It is a whole different ballgame when you are talking about artist produced cds sold at the gig. The budgets do not compare. This is part of my problem.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Chuck Nessa

[david weiss]

edit to say I was responding to David.

I don't accept your premise that prices are too high. At the end of the lp era (20 years ago) the price of a 35-40 minute lp was close to $10. Consider inflation. If I accept your premise and prices should have dropped on cds, the giant reduction in sales has kept the price high - as has the yearly jump in publishing royalties. I am working on a new release and the budget for it. When I get it issued, I will have to sell more than I have sold of any cd just to break even - not counting my time. Just don't ask why I keep doing it.

It is a whole different ballgame when you are talking about artist produced cds sold at the gig. The budgets do not compare. This is part of my problem.

Good points Chuck but if the prices dropped initially and then creeped up to where we are today, that might have been easier to swallow.

I've never self-released/produced any of my CDs. I get them from my label(s) for $6-$7 and just don't take that big of a profit margin. I do sell them for more in Europe and in Japan (where most of my gigs are anyway) but still under market value and there I double my money and I'm satisfied with that.

I'm not sure I can get with the more music more money thing though. Maybe that is a publishing royalties issue but I think CDs are too long anyway. I don't think I'm happier paying $18.99 for a CD if there is 70 minutes of music instead 50. I think 50-60 minutes is plenty of music for a CD with a few exceptions. There is one motto an industry guy came up with that summed up his feeling about the length of CDs and the current crop of new jazz artists; twice the music, half the talent. I, of course don't agree with this though I do see the point at times. Some re-issue LPs on CD and sell them for $18.99 so a CD could conceivably cost twice as much as the LP issue. What was the introductory price for CDs when they were first introduced, $14.99? Still a bit of a markup from what LPs cost and within a couple of years of their introduction they were cheaper to manufacture but the price stayed the same or went up.

If I go to Amazon, my new CD is $18.99 and most Blue Note re-issues are under $10. While I'm on a smaller label and it is hard for them to compete with the majors, that is a huge price difference and I'm certainly the more unknown entity that needs the price reduction so someone might take a chance on me. I shop and I don't take any chances at $18.99. I'll take a few at $9.99 at the used CD shop though.

When the Bad Plus released their first CD on Sony, the CD had a list price of $9.99 which really capitalized on the hype they were getting. People were reading about them and hearing about them and were more likely to investigate at $9.99 then $15.99. It helped launch them.

[Ken Dryden]

For new music there is nothing here - Best Buy, Target, and Wal Mart. None have good selections of anything.

Tell me about it. I had a $20 Best Buy gift card, essentially burning a hole in my pocket and begging to be spent today and I couldn't find one, not one cd to buy. Man, that's sad. So I ended up using it to extend the warranty on my electric shaver instead.

The local Best Buy's CD selection is a joke, period. Even for those with a beginning interest in jazz.

All smooth crap and misfiled new age, very little real jazz.

[BruceH]

edit to say I was responding to David.

I don't accept your premise that prices are too high. At the end of the lp era (20 years ago) the price of a 35-40 minute lp was close to $10. Consider inflation. If I accept your premise and prices should have dropped on cds, the giant reduction in sales has kept the price high - as has the yearly jump in publishing royalties. I am working on a new release and the budget for it. When I get it issued, I will have to sell more than I have sold of any cd just to break even - not counting my time. Just don't ask why I keep doing it.

What is the new release you are working on? Some people on the board might be interested.

[Chuck Nessa]

edit to say I was responding to David.

I don't accept your premise that prices are too high. At the end of the lp era (20 years ago) the price of a 35-40 minute lp was close to $10. Consider inflation. If I accept your premise and prices should have dropped on cds, the giant reduction in sales has kept the price high - as has the yearly jump in publishing royalties. I am working on a new release and the budget for it. When I get it issued, I will have to sell more than I have sold of any cd just to break even - not counting my time. Just don't ask why I keep doing it.

It is a whole different ballgame when you are talking about artist produced cds sold at the gig. The budgets do not compare. This is part of my problem.

Good points Chuck but if the prices dropped initially and then creeped up to where we are today, that might have been easier to swallow.

I've never self-released/produced any of my CDs. I get them from my label(s) for $6-$7 and just don't take that big of a profit margin. I do sell them for more in Europe and in Japan (where most of my gigs are anyway) but still under market value and there I double my money and I'm satisfied with that.

I'm not sure I can get with the more music more money thing though. Maybe that is a publishing royalties issue but I think CDs are too long anyway. I don't think I'm happier paying $18.99 for a CD if there is 70 minutes of music instead 50. I think 50-60 minutes is plenty of music for a CD with a few exceptions. There is one motto an industry guy came up with that summed up his feeling about the length of CDs and the current crop of new jazz artists; twice the music, half the talent. I, of course don't agree with this though I do see the point at times. Some re-issue LPs on CD and sell them for $18.99 so a CD could conceivably cost twice as much as the LP issue. What was the introductory price for CDs when they were first introduced, $14.99? Still a bit of a markup from what LPs cost and within a couple of years of their introduction they were cheaper to manufacture but the price stayed the same or went up.

If I go to Amazon, my new CD is $18.99 and most Blue Note re-issues are under $10. While I'm on a smaller label and it is hard for them to compete with the majors, that is a huge price difference and I'm certainly the more unknown entity that needs the price reduction so someone might take a chance on me. I shop and I don't take any chances at $18.99. I'll take a few at $9.99 at the used CD shop though.

When the Bad Plus released their first CD on Sony, the CD had a list price of $9.99 which really capitalized on the hype they were getting. People were reading about them and hearing about them and were more likely to investigate at $9.99 then $15.99. It helped launch them.

Here's the real deal - I sell my cds to a distributor for 7.75 and I pay the shipping. This nets out at about 7.50. The sales terms are 90 days, eom. This means when i ship cds on July 20, I get paid around December 15. Amazon lists my cds for at least a buck more than other sites. I am not the Bad Plus.

[david weiss]

Yes, the Bad Plus is a bad example when related to what you do, I was painting broader strokes here, generalizing a bit and didn't mean to imply that this was a model for what you do. At this point, I assume you know what your market is, know what you can expect sales wise and spend accordingly. I also assume you are talking about re-issuing things from your catalog and are not recording new music. I'm sure it is a labor of love at this point and probably always has been but you been around long enough to know things rebound, how or in what medium I don't know but things never stay the same for long. Maybe the next generation will want to hold physical recordings in their hands again, who knows, but there is always a reaction to something at some point.

I also read about how Blue Note is experimenting with the LP/CD packaging. I don't know about that but maybe being able to download the CD for free when you buy the LP might be a little cooler and a little cheaper. I'm not a fan of these download only labels that have their artists sell download cards for $10 at gigs. At that point I still think I would want a CD for a few dollars more but then I'm not 20 years old.

Oh and at least your distributor pays you even if it is down the road a bit, I've heard some stories......not much of a silver lining I guess......

Edited July 30, 2009 by david weiss

[Chuck Nessa]

The example I gave was of a new recording, with the artists paid, the photographer paid, the graphic designer paid, the printer paid, the pressing plant paid - all in front.

[david weiss]

The example I gave was of a new recording, with the artists paid, the photographer paid, the graphic designer paid, the printer paid, the pressing plant paid - all in front.

Sorry I missed that though it is clearly in your post. Well clearly you are crazy to record and release a new CD in this climate but you just can't help yourself can you. I'm kidding of course (I hate to use emoticons) but it is a daunting task these days but if it is what you do, you have to continue on some level I guess. I would have to hope that a label like yours would still find a way through all this. You have been out here a long time and have clearly established your identity and sound and have consistently churned out quality product. You have a line as it where and should have a fan base that has relied on your abitlity to turn them on to new and exciting things and they know when they buy a Nessa CD they can count on it being of a certain type of music and of a certain quality. The part the trips me up, that I will never come to grips with is, why then are sales declining for you. Is your fan base dying or done with buying CDs or what. I know the current state of the economy is a factor but the fans of the music you churn out, the ones that have supported you through the years are probably not the type to switch to downloads or suddenly decide they like smooth jazz so where did they go (and of course I'm being more general now, not just referring to you). I mean it's one thing when back in the heyday of the young lion/new format (the CD) bonanza I would still here things like sophomore slump. In other worlds, so and so's first CD sold 60,000 copies and their second CD sold 12,000 and they are talking sophomore slump? Maybe, just maybe, the over-hyped first CD didn't really pass muster with the fans so they took a pass on the second one because you would think an artist would only get better as they matured so one would think if the first CD was good than most would anticipate the second and run out and get it when it came out. It's hard to think there was a time when an acoustic jazz album by a mid level star on a major label, not even a star yet actually because it is their first album, would sell 60,000 copies (and this is no exaggeration). Where did all these people go? Were they sick of being essentially lied to and being suckered into buying the next greatest new thing one time too many so they all chucked it in. That is a huge dropoff that I can't quite get my head around.

The independents have historically been the ones to document most of the best music at the time it is happening and now it is time to rely on them again for this but I fear many aren't up to the task and in the long run that might be one of the final nails in the coffin. How many guys, in the US at least, are out there like Chuck has been, running a modest label for what, over 30 years and are still going? I can't think of any off the top of my head. Well one, Muse/High Note I guess would be one (and I'm not comparing you guys) but I can't think of any others. Sunnyside perhaps, they have been out here for a while now. There are some up and comers though much to my relief and I'm interested to see how they will fare and if they will last.

Edited July 31, 2009 by david weiss

[A Lark Ascending]

As for the nothing to buy argument, I'm not buying that one. There is a lot of great music being released these days...

Quite - I've never found it easier to get hold of the old stuff; and there's a never ending stream of interesting music coming from jazz musicians worldwide.

I think the perception that there is 'nothing to buy' comes from those with already large collections and widespread experience of listening who have settled into what they like...and that's not a criticism. I'm like that in lots of ways, especially rock music (where I have essentially had 'nothing to buy' since 1976).

There's lots of fresh, individual, engaging music coming out on just the little island I live on, let alone across the rest of the world...and plenty of things I never feel the need to hear again! The problem it has is competing with the enormous range of alternatives people now have to fill their leisure time.

[Jazzmoose]

The local Best Buy's CD selection is a joke, period. Even for those with a beginning interest in jazz.

All smooth crap and misfiled new age, very little real jazz.

That pretty much describes the selection at every Best Buy I've seen. Circuit City was somewhat better, but nothing like the Tower I used to go to. On the other hand, I guess Best Buy is still around...

[BruceH]

Sorry if anybody's already mentioned this, but one factor in falling CD sales may be that we're currently going through the worst recession since the Great Depression.

[BillF]

Sorry if anybody's already mentioned this, but one factor in falling CD sales may be that we're currently going through the worst recession since the Great Depression.

And they didn't sell many CDs then!

[AndrewHill]

Well my faith in cd shopping...in an actual store...has been restored. I decided to drive to Chicago last night (spur of the moment kind of thing) and I hit Restless Records on Milwaukee St tonight, which also happened to have an Exchange just two doors down. I went to the Exchange first and not only was I floored by the selection but the female clerk actually engaged in a jazz discussion with me. I couldn't believe it! She asked, "well what kind of jazz do you like? Smooth or the real stuff'". I said "the real stuff" and she said "oh, like Blakey and Rollins? Wayne Shorter's one of my favorites!" Then she went on to say what a great bunch of stuff they got in and that a good deal of it was OOP but they still priced them at decent prices. Man, she wasn't kidding! The highlight of that batch being "This is Tal Farlow" in the slipcase for $10!!!!!!! Really???? Plus another VEE, "Art Farmer-Benny Golson Jazztet-Here and Now" for $8! I bought those in a heartbeat. They also had the Billy Bauer VEE too, but I already own that one. And they had tons more stuff: tons of Art Farmer, Chick Corea's "Early Circle" and on and on-it was nuts! Man, browsing through bins and having that excitment of can't waiting to see what's next was a feeling I haven't had in years. Then, after an hour there, I finally made my way to Reckless a few doors down and that place was filled to the hilt with jazz cd's. I actually started to panic because I knew I was going to go over my budget, but I still ended up walking out of there nearly an hour and a half later with $125 worth of more cd's. It was so much frickin' fun going through bin after bin of jazz and having a staff that knows what's what and hanging there talking to these people about your passion. I'm sorry, but I just don't get the same satisfaction with on-line suppliers. I say, Bring back the stores!!!

[JSngry]

Well my faith in cd shopping...in an actual store...has been restored. I decided to drive to Chicago last night (spur of the moment kind of thing) and I hit Restless Records on Milwaukee St tonight, which also happened to have an Exchange just two doors down. I went to the Exchange first and not only was I floored by the selection but the female clerk actually engaged in a jazz discussion with me. I couldn't believe it! She asked, "well what kind of jazz do you like? Smooth or the real stuff'". I said "the real stuff" and she said "oh, like Blakey and Rollins? Wayne Shorter's one of my favorites!"

There is a woman who need never be without a date, if she can handle dating musicians and jazz fans...

[A Lark Ascending]

I say, Bring back the stores!!!

Led, perhaps, by the Big Bands as they march back into towns?

[GregK]

Well my faith in cd shopping...in an actual store...has been restored. I decided to drive to Chicago last night (spur of the moment kind of thing) and I hit Restless Records on Milwaukee St tonight, which also happened to have an Exchange just two doors down. I went to the Exchange first and not only was I floored by the selection but the female clerk actually engaged in a jazz discussion with me. I couldn't believe it! She asked, "well what kind of jazz do you like? Smooth or the real stuff'". I said "the real stuff" and she said "oh, like Blakey and Rollins? Wayne Shorter's one of my favorites!" Then she went on to say what a great bunch of stuff they got in and that a good deal of it was OOP but they still priced them at decent prices. Man, she wasn't kidding! The highlight of that batch being "This is Tal Farlow" in the slipcase for $10!!!!!!! Really???? Plus another VEE, "Art Farmer-Benny Golson Jazztet-Here and Now" for $8! I bought those in a heartbeat. They also had the Billy Bauer VEE too, but I already own that one. And they had tons more stuff: tons of Art Farmer, Chick Corea's "Early Circle" and on and on-it was nuts! Man, browsing through bins and having that excitment of can't waiting to see what's next was a feeling I haven't had in years. Then, after an hour there, I finally made my way to Reckless a few doors down and that place was filled to the hilt with jazz cd's. I actually started to panic because I knew I was going to go over my budget, but I still ended up walking out of there nearly an hour and a half later with $125 worth of more cd's. It was so much frickin' fun going through bin after bin of jazz and having a staff that knows what's what and hanging there talking to these people about your passion. I'm sorry, but I just don't get the same satisfaction with on-line suppliers. I say, Bring back the stores!!!

Wow. You're lucky. That experience is just so much better than what you would get from downloading.

[WorldB3]

Well my faith in cd shopping...in an actual store...has been restored. I decided to drive to Chicago last night (spur of the moment kind of thing) and I hit Restless Records on Milwaukee St tonight, which also happened to have an Exchange just two doors down. I went to the Exchange first and not only was I floored by the selection but the female clerk actually engaged in a jazz discussion with me. I couldn't believe it! She asked, "well what kind of jazz do you like? Smooth or the real stuff'". I said "the real stuff" and she said "oh, like Blakey and Rollins? Wayne Shorter's one of my favorites!"

There is a woman who need never be without a date, if she can handle dating musicians and jazz fans...

Truer words have never been spoken.

A while back there was a female clerk who worked the Jazz section at Amoeba SF. Normally I wouldn't have gave her a second look walking down the street but when she was talking about the sonic differences in sound reproduction between the Verve Originals version of Miles Davis Elevator to the Gallows to the one that came out in 1990 with the bonus tracks or if I wanted something really cool I could get the german edition that also contained the Art Blakey soundtrack Les Liaisons Dangereuses with it I wanted to date her on the spot.

Edited August 1, 2009 by WorldB3

[BillF]

Well my faith in cd shopping...in an actual store...has been restored. I decided to drive to Chicago last night (spur of the moment kind of thing) and I hit Restless Records on Milwaukee St tonight, which also happened to have an Exchange just two doors down. I went to the Exchange first and not only was I floored by the selection but the female clerk actually engaged in a jazz discussion with me. I couldn't believe it! She asked, "well what kind of jazz do you like? Smooth or the real stuff'". I said "the real stuff" and she said "oh, like Blakey and Rollins? Wayne Shorter's one of my favorites!"

There is a woman who need never be without a date, if she can handle dating musicians and jazz fans...

Truer words have never been spoken.

A while back there was a female clerk who worked the Jazz section at Amoeba SF. Normally I wouldn't have gave her a second look walking down the street but when she was talking about the sonic differences in sound reproduction between the Verve Originals version of Miles Davis Elevator to the Gallows to the one that came out in 1990 with the bonus tracks or if I wanted something really cool I could get the german edition that also contained the Art Blakey soundtrack Les Liaisons Dangereuses with it I wanted to date her on the spot.

The way to a man's heart ...

[AndrewHill]

Well my faith in cd shopping...in an actual store...has been restored. I decided to drive to Chicago last night (spur of the moment kind of thing) and I hit Restless Records on Milwaukee St tonight, which also happened to have an Exchange just two doors down. I went to the Exchange first and not only was I floored by the selection but the female clerk actually engaged in a jazz discussion with me. I couldn't believe it! She asked, "well what kind of jazz do you like? Smooth or the real stuff'". I said "the real stuff" and she said "oh, like Blakey and Rollins? Wayne Shorter's one of my favorites!"

There is a woman who need never be without a date, if she can handle dating musicians and jazz fans...

Truer words have never been spoken.

A while back there was a female clerk who worked the Jazz section at Amoeba SF. Normally I wouldn't have gave her a second look walking down the street but when she was talking about the sonic differences in sound reproduction between the Verve Originals version of Miles Davis Elevator to the Gallows to the one that came out in 1990 with the bonus tracks or if I wanted something really cool I could get the german edition that also contained the Art Blakey soundtrack Les Liaisons Dangereuses with it I wanted to date her on the spot.

The way to a man's heart ...

Amen. If I wasn't married I would've asked for her number right there and then.

[papsrus]

Made it by Vinyl Fever in Tampa yesterday with 5 minutes to spare before closing. The jazz CD selection was OK, about a third the rack space of that over at Sound Exchange. Total floor space was probably about a third of Sound Exchange as well. Obviously I didn't have time to check out the vinyl, but from a glance, I'd say Sound Exchange probably has a larger collection. Based on all that, it may be worth your time Dan to check out SE the next time you're up that way.

Managed to snag a used copy of Dexter Gordon's "One Flight Up" (not an rvg), which I'm enjoying now.

All in all, both places were worth the visit, but not much hidden gold that I could see. (keep in mind, I had very little time at either location.)

I'd give 'em both 3 out of 5 stars, with Sound Exchange getting a slight edge simply for having a larger volume of stuff.