How much is enough?

[Dan Gould]

I never thought I could have enough Mobley. But then I came by something new the other week and, to my great surprise (and slight regret), I realised I already had enough. The rest is overflow.

I think what Ubu (and myself) are curious about is what specific Mobley record did you come across the other week and realize with slight regret that you had enough?

[PHILLYQ]

I've found for myself that the law of diminshing returns definitely applies. If I start with one of an artist's best works and I keep going in acquiring their recordings it gets to a point where the satisfaction level starts to diminish, each recording is less exciting/revelatory/essential than the ones before. As a result I try to avoid being a completist because I know it will end up in a disappointing end.

[umum_cypher]

I never thought I could have enough Mobley. But then I came by something new the other week and, to my great surprise (and slight regret), I realised I already had enough. The rest is overflow.

I think what Ubu (and myself) are curious about is what specific Mobley record did you come across the other week and realize with slight regret that you had enough?

Hey, it was my overflow, not yours!

[Dan Gould]

Whatever.

[jazztrain]

PHILLQ:

I was just reading this thread and the phrase "diminishing returns" quickly popped into my head before coming to your post. My experience is that it typically gets more and more difficult (and often expensive) to find each successive item needed as you approach "completeness" for an artist. It's often an elusive goal for artists who are still playing and for those for whom live tapes exist. In many cases, the rarest and most elusive items are somewhat disappointing. In many cases, the items are rare because they sold poorly when originally issued. In many cases, the recordings may not have been all that compelling to begin with, thus lessening the chances of them being reissued.

I can think of at least a few cases in which I've tracked down albums after 20 or more years of searching, only to find, once I heard them, that they were nothing special musically. I think a lot of us fall victim to the desire or need to possess everything by an artist, much as stamp or coin collectors, for example, want to fill up an album or run a series. The excitement of the hunt often blinds us to what we really need. However, having said that, there's still a wealth of amazing music that is hard to find and that has never been reissued. Thus, the hunt continues!

I've found for myself that the law of diminshing returns definitely applies. If I start with one of an artist's best works and I keep going in acquiring their recordings it gets to a point where the satisfaction level starts to diminish, each recording is less exciting/revelatory/essential than the ones before. As a result I try to avoid being a completist because I know it will end up in a disappointing end.

[jeffcrom]

I think I have everything available by Gil Evan except some arrangements he did for a Pearl Bailey record. (Can't find it.) I even have his stuff for Johnny Mathis.

I'm looking for that Pearl Bailey record, too!

Like most of you, for me it depends on the artist. With some artists, I want a representative sampling, but there are those (Miles, Coltrane, Steve Lacy, King Oliver, and others) for whom I'm trying to find everything. In some cases I'm there, in some cases I'm close, and in some cases (like Lacy) I realize that it's probably impossible. At one point, I decided I wanted all of Sun Ra's recordings and found some cool rarities, but gave up on the idea of completeness pretty quickly.

I agree that sometimes a long-sought, elusive record disappoints, but often it's as good as we'd hoped. Before it had been reissued, I looked for a copy of Lacy's Disposability for years. When I finally found it, I paid more than I had ever paid for a record up to that point. And it's still one of my favorite Lacys.

[AllenLowe]

I'm determined to have every recording Cleo Gibson ever made -

[mikelz777]

I've gone deep on a lot of artists:

[15+ discs] Donald Byrd, Scott Hamilton, Jackie McLean, Hank Mobley (and who knows how many side dates of Mobes)

[20+ discs] Chet Baker, Count Basie, Jazz Crusaders/Crusaders, Stan Getz

[30+ discs] John Coltrane, Dexter Gordon, Bill Evans, Lester Young

[50+ discs] Art Pepper

After a quick assessment I'd say that I have too much Scott Hamilton. I'd be happy with less than half of what I have now. (I'm selling if you're interested.) I'm a bit richer in Basie than I need to be but 18 of those discs are taken up by two Mosaics. I have a lot more discs of Coltrane than my actual love for him would warrant but 26 of those discs are in 3 box sets I got at prices I couldn't pass up. Somehow I feel a bit rich in Dexter Gordon but on the other hand, I'd be hard pressed choosing what to give up if I had to. I could see myself picking up additional Jackie McLean and Art Pepper but certainly not many. I wouldn't want to be with fewer Art Pepper, Lester Young, Jazz Crusaders/Crusaders, Hank Mobley or Donald Byrd.

Other notables-I have 14 Miles Davis discs and that is plenty for me. I have only 8 Charlie Parker discs, 5 Monks and 5 Ellingtons and am very happy with those numbers and don't have any plans for any more. I'm not looking but wouldn't rule out more Monk.

I've seen my buying habits evolve over time. Early on when I first started getting into jazz and grew to appreciate it more I tended to seek out artists I liked and then bought a lot of their discs. I've moved away from that mindset and now prefer an approach where I seek out a greater number or variety of artists and aim for/settle for something more in the range of 2-5 discs. Then again, my past habits have made it possible and a lot easier to take that approach since I have everything I want from the giants in my collection. With them, I'm not a completist in that I need to have everything for the sake of having them, I want to enjoy them but it's nice to have a sizable number of discs to choose from to suit whatever mood, see the evolution of the artist or hear the artist play with someone else whom you admire and have a variety of choices at your disposal.

Edited August 19, 2009 by mikelz777

[Hot Ptah]

I think that I cannot have too much Duke Ellington.

[kh1958]

That is a function of a variety of several factors:

1. The greatness of the artist (in your personal view).

2. The length of time one has admired the artist.

3. The size of their recorded discography.

4. The rarity of their work.

5. Whether the quality of the artist's work is maintained over their entire career.

For a truly great artist and I have admired over a long period of time, I would probably have all or substantially all of their work, unless their discography is too enormous (e.g., Duke Ellington), or difficult to obtain (a factor that tends to become less of a factor over a longer period of time), or the artist was in decline at some period in their career.

[BruceH]

I'll pose the question by way of examples.

I love Lester Young. If he put out fifty albums (for sake of example) I'd want about 46 of them.

I like Scott Hamilton some too. If he's got a hundred albums, five's probably enough for me. They're so similar as to be nearly indistinguishable. Frankly, I'm probably more interested in his sidemen.

I like Sonny Stitt and Eddie Harris. Give me twenty of them.

Ben Webster? 30.

Archie Shepp? Another 30.

Love Bud Powell. Thirty (out of an assumed 50) is enough here too; he put out some sub-par material. Or perhaps I should say that some of his sub-par material has been released.

Once upon a time, I was a completist with respect to another artist. As I got to the items that were scarce, I began to realize why they were.

So what's your "enough" level?

Too much is never enough.

[John L]

Too much is never enough.

...of Lester Young.

[Clunky]

For me the artists I will keep on adding to my collection are

Lucky Thompson

Monk

Warne Marsh

others nearly in the same league are

Lee Konitz _ too much out there to buy it all.... surely ... but I seem to be giving it a try

Bird -----ditto for Konitz

Miles------ditto

Duke.... ditto

I have enough Wyntons (4)

[gmonahan]

I'm like Bev (I think it was Bev). I'll go "hot" on a given artist, pick up a bunch of stuff, listen, then move on, then come back. I did that recently with T-Bone Walker.

But there are a few constants. I'm always on the lookout for something with solos by Frank Rosolino--and he was on a LOT of sessions. Toots Thielemans does it for me too. And Jack Teagarden. And Basie. And Bird. And...........

greg mo

[Free For All]

I'm always on the lookout for something with solos by Frank Rosolino--and he was on a LOT of sessions.

Ditto on Rosolino. Same with Carl Fontana. With certain players ya gotta get all that you can.

[Guest Bill Barton]

That is a function of a variety of several factors:

1. The greatness of the artist (in your personal view).

2. The length of time one has admired the artist.

3. The size of their recorded discography.

4. The rarity of their work.

5. Whether the quality of the artist's work is maintained over their entire career.

For a truly great artist and I have admired over a long period of time, I would probably have all or substantially all of their work, unless their discography is too enormous (e.g., Duke Ellington), or difficult to obtain (a factor that tends to become less of a factor over a longer period of time), or the artist was in decline at some period in their career.

Of all the posts in this thread so far, this one sort of sums up my personal take on it nicely. Back in the mid-1990s I had an LP collection that numbered well over 10,000 (I never really counted after a certain point...) About 3/4 of it was ripped off, including most of the rare material and a large Ellington collection that included nearly all of the French RCA series. The latter material has been high on my list for replacing in one digital format or another and I'd guess that I'm about halfway there...

I'm by no means a completist but I continue to search out everything I can find by a few artists. A far from comprehensive list would include: Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Don Cherry, Marion Brown, Perry Robinson, Clifford Jordan, Von Freeman and Billy Harper.

And for me, there's no such thing as "too much" from any of those artists (and a fair number more who have a significantly larger body of recorded work such as Ornette, Cecil, Archie Shepp, the AACM folks, et al.)

Edited August 19, 2009 by Bill Barton

[Peter Friedman]

I am a serious record (CD) collector and have been for more than 50 years. Having been involved for so long

I have accumulated a lengthy list of recordings by many many musicians that I like. If I feel highly positive

about a musician I usually try to get everything I can by that player. So for example, I have just about everything

by Miles until he changed in a direction that was not to my taste.

I am close to being a completist on a large number of jazz players.

[Chuck Nessa]

Have untold numbers of Ellington and Cecil Taylor.

[blind-blake]

Got every commercially-available recording by Bud Powell. (Love Bud.) My only got-to-have-it-all jazz artist.

[Bright Moments]

RRK and fela are my 2 got-to-have-it-all artists at the moment!

[BeBop]

Have you ever added something to your collection and come away with a lower opinion of the artist? Like "Hey, he's fallible after all."

[Teasing the Korean]

Ellington and Morricone are the two artists whose music I will be accumulating from here on out.

Other than those two, I'm content with concentrated periods of greatness. Just because I want all of a certain artist's Blue Note sessions from the 60s does not mean that I want his disco album from 1976. Or his smooth jazz album from 1986.

[ghost of miles]

I'm at 100+ for Ellington, Miles and Trane. Hard to imagine imposing any kind of limit on any artist, but I guess I'd say, "You'll know when you get there." Sometimes I feel as if I've maxed out for awhile on certain genres or eras...1950s/early 1960s "classic jazz," big bands, for example...but in the last month I've gone on a Red Garland binge & snapped up several Helen Forrest w/Artie Shaw discs as well. So I have these arbitration thoughts at times in that regard, but then I just go and pursue my enthusiasms anyway.

Edited August 20, 2009 by ghost of miles

[papsrus]

I feel like the whole world's in front of me

Isn't duplication an issue with some of you guys?

[Guest Bill Barton]

Have you ever added something to your collection and come away with a lower opinion of the artist? Like "Hey, he's fallible after all."

Freddie Hubbard is the artist who immediately springs to my mind. Not the CTI stuff, most of which I like, but that run of ersatz disco poop he recorded circa 1975 through 1981, starting with Liquid Love, truly one of the most obnoxious albums ever made, and continuing through Splash. Admittedly, the duds were alternated with worthwhile sessions like Echoes of Blue and Super Blue plus the brilliant Outpost, but I lost a lot of confidence in his taste during this period of time. More power to him if he actually made some $$$ from those chasin' the trends albums, but I really doubt that he did (anyone more tuned-in to the biz know if those LPs really were commercially successful?)

All of those albums are long gone now. I hope that the thief or thieves who liberated them enjoys 'em (or not). I certainly don't miss hearing them.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Bill Barton