Tom in RI Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I have been picking up some of the more recently issued Rudy Van Gelder remasters of dates formerly available on Fantasy. Yesterday I picked up Very Saxy for 5.99, this is dated 2008. Today I couldn't stop myself from picking up John Coltrane's Fearless Leader set for 19.99. Now as I understand it, when Fantasy owned all this stuff they kept a ton of stuff in print. Can some of you industry types explain to me how it makes sense for Concord to dump issues from last year? Is the cost of storing and stocking these cd's so onerous that they need to delete them? I can't understand how this makes any sense for their business unless Concord is getting out of the cd business altogether and into downloads only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Here is a description of Concord's acquisition of Fantasy: Concord Records, Inc. and Fantasy, Inc. today announced that Concord has completed its acquisition of Fantasy and has merged the two companies to form a new entity called the Concord Music Group, Inc. Concord Records is a prominent 31-year-old, active record label focused on jazz, traditional pop and adult contemporary formats that is currently enjoying considerable success in 2004 with the multi-platinum release of Ray Charles' final recording, "Genius Loves Company" (in association with Starbucks Hear Music). Fantasy owns on. e of the world's largest and most prestigious catalogs of jazz, blues, R&B and rock music, including certain music publishingThe contractual relationship between a songwriter or music composer and a music publisher, whereby the writer assigns part or all of his or her music copyrights to the publisher in exchange for the publisher's commercial exploitation of the music. Fantasy also owns and operates the world-class Fantasy Recording Studios in Berkeley, Calif. Following the merger, the Concord Music Group will be one of the foremost adult-focused recorded music companies in the world. As part of the transaction, Tailwind Capital Partners, a leading private equity investment firm focused on media and other growth sectors of the economy, provided new equity capital to the Concord Music Group. The existing owners of Concord Records, Norman Lear and Hal Gaba, remain substantial shareholders in the combined entity. Concord's management will also have a share of the new company. There is a private equity firm involved--I would guess they purchased preferred stock and there might well be an obligation to pay substantial dividends on that preferred stock. The PE firm's investment might be leveraged (partly debt financed), so there might be added pressure for Concord to distribute cash. Cutting out CDs is a way to raise some quick cash for operations, debt service, and dividends. PE firms have a myopic view of business, they are in it for the short-run--sell their investment at a profit as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I might agree with the analysis but these are just recently introduced. Perhaps they never sold well so they're just writing it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmce Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I guess. These have been showing up all over the place here. I picked up some Rollins, Hawkins, Miles, Monk, and Nat Adderly RVG/Keepnews at a bookstore that doesn't even sell CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micha Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 They recently closed one of their largest warehouses so that's probably why they're reducing inventory. I have a friend who works for Concord Music Group who told me a month or two ago that they're transitioning to an on-demand CD-R program where eventually any release will be available as a cdr printed per order. I assume this will include the art work but I didn't inquire to all the details as I don't have a great interest in CD-Rs at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Englewood Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 They recently closed one of their largest warehouses so that's probably why they're reducing inventory. I have a friend who works for Concord Music Group who told me a month or two ago that they're transitioning to an on-demand CD-R program where eventually any release will be available as a cdr printed per order. I assume this will include the art work but I didn't inquire to all the details as I don't have a great interest in CD-Rs at the moment. Really??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micha Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 They recently closed one of their largest warehouses so that's probably why they're reducing inventory. I have a friend who works for Concord Music Group who told me a month or two ago that they're transitioning to an on-demand CD-R program where eventually any release will be available as a cdr printed per order. I assume this will include the art work but I didn't inquire to all the details as I don't have a great interest in CD-Rs at the moment. Really??? I'll ask my friend for more details tonight or tomorrow but the part about the warehouse closing/already closed is definitely true. From the conversation three months ago, they were planning to sell or lease the rights to Amazon who would publish everything as a "same quality" CD-R per order. I am assuming Amazon already has some sort of CD-R program established so maybe somebody else may be able to vouch for the quality. And my friend only said "more" would be available than there is now so I suppose that doesn't mean everything's going to be available and it may not. I'll update if I find out more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmce Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Honestly, I'm all for this, assuming the price is reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Hey all - is there a list of the deleted titles anywhere? Sorry if I missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 A CDR program? I would think that would cause some legal problems, unless royalties are paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeline Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Smithsonian Folkways has been doing CD-Rs for years now - before that, they did cassettes on demand, with full liners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen archer Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) Honestly, I'm all for this, assuming the price is reasonable. Don't kid yourself about the Cd-R on demand market being cheap look at what Amazon is charging for CD-R copies $15.99 and up . Also Warner Brothers new burn on demand DVDs start at $19.99 !, sometimes they have a buy 5 for $50 sale but big deal these are bare bones DVDs and no matter how rare they are they should only be worth around $5 or 7 bucks a pop. Edited September 17, 2009 by zen archer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) I may be missing a finer technical point but there is one aspect of that "commercial" CD-R "on demand" that seems to be on the rise as a replacement for CDs that are actually in print and regularly available that's been baffling me for some time: Ever since there have been CD-R blanks that you can use to burn your own CD copy off another "regular" CD (or that you can compile yourself to customize your own choice of tunes), those purportedly in the know keep telling us that while these CD-Rs may be lossless in audio quality (and therefore detrimental to CD sales as shady copying is soooo easy) at the same time these CD-Rs are not likely to last nearly as long as factory-produced regular audio CDs will and that one should expect the data surface to start disintegrating after 5 to 10 years (or so), making the CD-R unplayable. But now who is going to GUARANTEE me that those "on demand" CD-Rs marketed (at apparently relatively steep prices) through Amazon or elsewhere will last as long as regular, factory-rpoduced CDs? At THAT kind of money you don't want to see the music data bits disintegrate on that CD-R that you shelled out so steeply for. Can anybody explain me the fundamental difference (including the diference in expected "service life") between those 2 types of CD-Rs? Edited September 17, 2009 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I have the same reservations as Steve. Why should I pay a ridiculous price for a CD-R that won't last as long? I also have a problem with buying downloads, too much money for inferior sound, while if you ever get tired of the music, there's no resale value with a download and your options with selling a manufactured CD-R are probably limited to private sales. A contact at Oldies.com just told me that they recently got in 50,000 more cutout CDs from the Concord/Fantasy catalog, so snap them up while you can and avoid CD-Rs and downloads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Ken, Are these different titles at Oldies or more copies of the same ones on the site? My guess is Concord is going to keep dumping them this way, so this 'sale' could go in indefinitely. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micha Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Okay, I just asked my friend for an update and there aren't any new details about the Amazon CD-R program though it sounds like we shouldn't be expecting this to mean a huge boost in availability, unfortunately. It sounds like they're still planning to go that route, at least for older releases, as I'm told that CMG is now cutting down on "lower-volume older items". Their main warehouse, which was in Cleveland, closed down this week and they moved to a warehouse in Chicago which holds something inthe ballpark of 1/5th the capacity. Some of the inventory was dumped out on the market at cutout prices both because of the diminished warehouse capacity and because it was cheaper for them to do that than to move everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom in RI Posted September 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I believe that Newburry's has also picked up a substantial number of units from CMG as I have been seeing the older Fantasy issues and now the newer Concord issues on their shelves since the 1st blowout Concord sale. And they (Newburry's) keep coming out with different titles. Now here's another question I have. Is the profit margin greater (that is, for the retailer) on these deleted titles than on new issues? My general understanding is that the retailer only makes a couple of dollars on a new cd but that while they may only make a couple of dollars on a deleted cd the ROI is much better because they are buying deleteds for so little. As it pertains to the former Fantasy catalog it seems that dumping all these titles will make it harder to sell new reissues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 How prescient was Chuck a couple of years ago about buying the Fantasy CDs you could. In their heyday not that long they used to put out some great stuff. What a damn shame for us . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 We should be thankful that Fantasy released just about everything worth releasing from the Prestige/Riverside/New Jazz, etc. family of labels, AND managed to keep the bulk in print for many years. That couldn't go on forever. Now it's just a repackaging game with Concord. It's understandable that they do not want to carry inventory of stuff that originated from the company they bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 How prescient was Chuck a couple of years ago about buying the Fantasy CDs you could. In their heyday not that long they used to put out some great stuff. What a damn shame for us . I choose to look at it as being thankful that Fantasy put out as much as they did, and kept it in print as long as they did. It is nothing short of miraculous that they put out CD's by John Dennis, Ada Moore, etc. I'm sure they couldn't have had making big bucks as their only goal there. Really, is there anything in the Prestige/Riverside/Jazzland/Fantasy catalogs of much value that didn't make it onto CD and stay in print for a number of years? We can lament not having favorite titles in the flavor we prefer (K2/Keepnews/RVG, etc.), but even their regular OJC issues always sounded really good given the age of the source material. The full flowering of CD age may be over, but it was an amazing time while it lasted, and we have plenty to listen to for the rest of our lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alppila Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Today I couldn't stop myself from picking up John Coltrane's Fearless Leader set for 19.99. Mind if I ask where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom in RI Posted September 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Hi Alppila, That was at Newburry Comics, a local (to New England) retailer that also has a pretty good presence online at Amazon. At the moment there are 3 sellers at Amazon selling this set for under $16 (Newburry's not among them). The set I bought was sealed, I see the 1st two Coltrane boxes used fro 19.99 at anothre retailer, FYE. I agree that Fantasy did a great job getting their catalog out and keeping lots of stuff in print. Maybe they got out when the getting was best. If CMG's strategy is to release and delete titles within a year or two I don't see what the point of buying Fantasy was. I tend to think the first response to this thread was probably on target, CMG must have to be in a cash crunch to be dumping so much product cheaply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I believe they are restocks of earlier sellouts and possibly additional titles, but he didn't offer those details. Obviously things are moving briskly. One thing to note to fellow board members. I was overcharged for several titles (more than $5.98) even though they were saw cut. Oldies issued a credit after investigating my query. Check your packing slip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHill Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Agree about Fantasy keeping so much obscure jazz in print for so long. Even most of the items that have slipped out of print can still be had for reasonable prices, so its no surprise with the decline of cd sales that Concord's cutting their inventory. Who can blame them? They have to do, just like some of the other major label/distributors, what they have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmce Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Just got back from the bookstore where they had even more RVG/Keepnews titles. It seems like now the question is what is in print? Even Sonny and Miles reissues from the last couple years were represented in the liquidation stack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.