AllenLowe Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) I know I'm a pain, but I tend to think it's everyone else's fault - I try to behave myself, but I have a tendency to speak my mind and I hate being bullied - well, now, Mike Fitzgerald just kicked me off Jazz Research (actually, I asked him to remove me, given his state of mind and attitude) - basically, he got pissed off at me for mentioning, in the editing thread here, a post I did that was rejected by him a few years back (had to do with leaving out middle intitials) - he than wrote me an email showing where I had mentioned the jazz research line on 8 prior occassions, and informed me that, under threat of expulsion, I WAS NO LONGER ALLOWED TO DO THIS. so I told him to stuff it - sigh - the 78 list tossed me when I objected to their weird "white guys invented jazz" thing. does this stuff happen to anyone else? and though we have our occassionally differences, this makes me appreciate this place and Jim more than ever - Edited October 26, 2009 by AllenLowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I truly appreciate the moderation here. Their stance is just picture perfect as far as I'm concerned. If I were ever to be banned from this forum, I truly truly deserved it. I was kicked off AAJ. I was pestered by someone into repeating several times that I really wasn't interested in the other departments of the website, only the bulletin board, and the moderator took it too personally, and I was summarily banned. I waited a few months, registered under a different name, and won't comment about the website now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) well, Mike F. is very knowledgeable but he has something of a schoolmarm attitude - the jazz research list has, unfortunately, gone from a place of lively discussion to a pretty dull recitation of obscure references. I liked it, but rarely posted anymore. Would have stayed, but he takes everything as a personal affront. I figured it was time to let it go, especially when he was being so petty - he said, basically, that I was not allowed to even cite it outside of his forum and than quoted a bunch of my posts in which I did so. It's not like I was violating anyone's privacy. I was citing only things (like discussions, disagreements) involving myself. Edited October 26, 2009 by AllenLowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I was booted off AAJ years ago for reasons that are still unclear to me. I asked owner Ricci why but didn't get an answer. Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) Here is another one who's been kicked off a forum before. Though a forum on a totally different hobby/interest, not music-related at all. In a nutshell, the key problem with that forum was/is that it is run by a bunch of people who have vested commercial interests in that particular hobby (which has a lot of sellers and service providers) though they kept repating their commercial acitvities and the forum were strictly separate. At one point the clash of interests culminated between their commercial interests and certain general trends and evolutions as their practices in the long run would have been to the detriment of the individual consumer/collector as he might have been exposed to a near-monopoly situation (where again the originators of that forum would have had a hand in). On several occasions I objected both to the forced silencing of those who openly spoke out against such practices and also queried any conflicts of interest on the forum bosses (conflicts of interest that were manifest to those who were willing to see). Upon being admonished in a private e-mail by one of the bigwigs that I was to refrain from questioning the appropriateness of the ousting of said forum members I made it clear in no uncertain terms that I still vehemently disapproved of their ousting. And bang - my account was blocked. And I was one of a lot of forumists who shared the same fate. By now that forum is reduced to a pretty dreary affair as a lot of others quit on their own. What you state, Allen, is typical for a lot of internet forums, I am afraid. Get in the way of the bigwigs and their doings and you'are out. Too many forums are considered good and appreciated only as long as they serve the purposes of those who originate them (i.e. by drawing off the constructive input of the forum members) but as soon as it becomes clear that the main forte of any forum, i.e. providing a platform for people to speak their minds publicly on controversial matters as well as on matters of common interest where on a one-to-one basis they would be all too easy to be silenced if they go against the grain of the bigwigs then out the window goes the openness if it becomes blatantly clear that that openness challenges the commercial or personal interests of those who set up the forum in the first place. I therefore really appreciate the decent way this O forum is handled in a way that is not overbearing in the way it is all too often the case elsewhere. Edited October 26, 2009 by Big Beat Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 What you state, Allen, is typical for a lot of internet forums, I am afraid. Get in the way of the bigwigs and their doings and you'are out. Too many forums are considered good and appreciated only as long as they serve the purposes of those who originate them Last time I checked, that was how life in general works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 What you state, Allen, is typical for a lot of internet forums, I am afraid. Get in the way of the bigwigs and their doings and you'are out. Too many forums are considered good and appreciated only as long as they serve the purposes of those who originate them Absolutely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) What you state, Allen, is typical for a lot of internet forums, I am afraid. Get in the way of the bigwigs and their doings and you'are out. Too many forums are considered good and appreciated only as long as they serve the purposes of those who originate them Last time I checked, that was how life in general works... I know but I also seem to remember there was a time (still is, upon the most recent checkup) where the WWW platforms such as forums and discussion groups were hailed as THE huge outlet for direct democracy, for direct exchange, for giving people a voice as a way of direct communication and interchange that specificyllly undermined the tendency of silencing voices considered obstinate or undesirable by the powers-that-be in more more conventional communication channels etc. etc. etc. But boasting about installing "commonwealth" forums out of purely altruistic motivations that were only supposed to serve the general dialogue of those who share a common interest/hobby - where upon scrutiny (which isn't even that much closer) you realize it's all about commercial or personal interests and trying to channel and streamline those who still won't fit the pattern, then ... ho hum ... Not that I was really suprised about the outcome of what I described above. Long before I was actually ousted I realized it was actually only a matter of time but what really galled (and alarmed) me was how many others in the forum complacently let themselves be lulled in and dragged along by a nose ring. Edited October 26, 2009 by Big Beat Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 The Hoffman forum seems to have degenerated as far as thread themes are concerned. Many of its members practice and seem obsessed by what they call "needle dropping", and the so-called "Gorts" get their jollies by practicing PP (Pre-emptive Padlocking) to a point somewhere beyond ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) I sympathize, as I have run into that same thing, but usually flee those kind of forums before they can expel me - as a matter of fact, I registered for Hoffman but abandoned ship pretty quickly when I saw the cultishness of it. this was just weird and unexpected, though Mike F. and I have clashed on several occasions - he's very controlling and tends to interject nasty little comments even on other people's posts - like "surely this is something you can find elsewhere" - that kind of thing, when someone makes a query. But as I said, the Jazz Research line had lost most of its appeal to me anyway. Afraid I told him off in a rather blunt fashion, but I woke up this morning to find his email and I just had had it with his little dictatorial habits. Edited October 26, 2009 by AllenLowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 this was just weird and unexpected, though Mike F. and I have clashed on several occasions - he's very controlling and tends to interject nasty little comments even on other people's posts - like "surely this is something you can find elsewhere" - that kind of thing, when someone makes a query. When he was still posting here I got a similar curt and gruff response when I inquired after the availability of his Gigi Gryce bio. Not a very nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdavenport Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) Not just jazz; I got booted from a British horseracing forum about 8 years ago. There was a poster, handle Goldman, who used to put up daily picks for the racing. He was a fair enough tipster (picked a lot of obvious winners), but he spoilt the effect by talking about his "inside contacts", tiresome boasting, and (literally) demanding RESPECT for his God-like picking skills. So every day's thread was followed by a list of fawning "you're the best Goldman", "We love you so much Goldman" posts. In the end, I could resist no further and left a facetious comment. Within hours my post was deleted and I received a very unpleasant email from the moderator, banning me and wishing me "good luck, WHEREVER you go on the internet". Edited October 26, 2009 by rdavenport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) 17 years on the net and it never happened to me. I can't understand why anyone would ask Allen to go far, far, far away and never come back. . Edited October 26, 2009 by 7/4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 congratulations and many more - rdavenport - now you've got me worried - uhhhh....have I mentioned lately how good looking Alfredson is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I know I'm a pain, but I tend to think it's everyone else's fault - I try to behave myself, but I have a tendency to speak my mind and I hate being bullied - well, now, Mike Fitzgerald just kicked me off Jazz Research (actually, I asked him to remove me, given his state of mind and attitude) - basically, he got pissed off at me for mentioning, in the editing thread here, a post I did that was rejected by him a few years back (had to do with leaving out middle intitials) - he than wrote me an email showing where I had mentioned the jazz research line on 8 prior occassions, and informed me that, under threat of expulsion, I WAS NO LONGER ALLOWED TO DO THIS. so I told him to stuff it - sigh - the 78 list tossed me when I objected to their weird "white guys invented jazz" thing. does this stuff happen to anyone else? and though we have our occassionally differences, this makes me appreciate this place and Jim more than ever - Doesn't that count as being kicked off of one internet group? Can't really count it as being "kicked off" if you ask to be removed, at least that's what logic tells me. Although you obviously think that Mike Fitzgerald drove you to it, so there's that. Whatever. Something tells me you'll always have a home here, Allen. Unless you ask to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) I have certain impressions of the guy you're talking about - consequently, I wouldn't let it phase me. I, too, had my problems with AAJ. Not banned, but pretty much as good as. When I look in these days - about twice a year - my reaction is: "Yech!" BTW, Allen, thanks for your recent PM. I tried - and failed - to reply a couple of times, but my messaging seems to need massaging. Edited October 26, 2009 by kenny weir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I have not accessed AAJ in a few years, not since I ran into a resident stormtrooper from Canada there—a most unpleasant guy with serious problems. Ditto Jazz Corner, but there the problem is the silly proprietress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 "Can't really count it as being "kicked off" if you ask to be removed, at least that's what logic tells me. Although you obviously think that Mike Fitzgerald drove you to it, so there's that. Whatever. Something tells me you'll always have a home here, Allen. Unless you ask to be removed." thanks, Bruce - and I do feel "kicked off" of Jazz Research because I could not have continued under Mike's idiot rule that nothing related to that group could be mentioned anywhere else on the internet. It's weird and fascistic, almost bizarrely controlling. So sooner or later I would have been bounced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Was that the "Mike F" who used to post here? That's a little bit surprising. Or maybe just depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 probably - I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I think, like many and after so many years, I'm more able to roll with the flow about such things these days. Something along the lines of the Marx dictum (hastily paraphrased): "No way I wanna belong to a club that'll have me as a member!" And speaking, bemusedly, of variously cranky/dictatorial/justplainweird moderation of sites, I'm sure many of you have had a look at the crazy but faskinating forum attached to a Bix site. At work, so don't have time to track it down ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fasstrack Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I think people take this stuff waaaay too seriously. I'm a dedicated professional musician. I have friends and I have opinions. I don't need to float them or have them sanctioned here (or elsewhere on the web). I've made some good friends but also had a few rather negative experiences with people in chat rooms----which made me realize what a big waste of time it was, and also how unnessecary (sp?) to spend undue time in these places. Also, you don't 'know' anyone til you meet eyeball-to-eyeball---and there's a lot of deception (read: people not what they say they are) on the web, and since it's pretty unregulated it's easy to get away with, These days I may post some music I myself did that I think is worth hearing, write about someone else's work I dig, float a topic of interest to the board, participate in a friendly way---but that's as far as it goes. That's as far as it should go. We all have real lives, right? So to me if someone gets kicked off a site at the very least they're spending too damn much time there. At most---well, as they say---there could be, ahem, issues . So that's the message: no need to take it to the point of involvement where it's nessecary to be booted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free For All Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 unnessecary (sp?) I believe around here it's spelled Nessa-sary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 what? People lie about themselves on the web? well, they don't call me "Mr. Big" for nothing - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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