Chico Freeman

[Joe]

Recently auditioned Chico's TALES OF ELLINGTON (AMG review).

An interesting experiment, with the results pitched somewhere between his more "commercial" and more "out" productions. Blue-chip supporting cast, including Johnny Coles.

[JSngry]

This is one with some good, downright frisky in fact, CF playing in a "free" bag from 1978. For that matter, it's just a damn good record period, although some people can't hang for the duration of the 31 minute title tune.

[clifford_thornton]

Pullen, Hopkins and Battle - hard to go wrong riding that kind of carpet.

[John L]

It is interesting that Chico Freeman hardly recorded at all before making records as a leader (like some of the future "young lions") and somehow managed to assemble Muhal Richard Abrams, Henry Threadgill, Cecil McBee, and Steve McCall for his recording debut in 1976. To put together a band like that, I would think that Chico must have had some serious credibility in Chicago at the time that went beyond his connection to Von. No?

[BFrank]

What I would REALLY like to see is a Cecil McBee Sextet album on Enja called "Compassion" w/Chico. I wonder if that's going to be available on his site.

Yes, I have this on vinyl and it's a lovely album. I wonder why it's never been re-issued on CD...or has it?

I just have the vinyl (on Inner City), myself.

[sonnymax]

I didn't see anything 'aggressive' in here.

Not directing this at you, sonnymax, cause I think you're giving an honest view, but would people rather have Allen -- or anyone -- whitewash his views, or not comment at all, so as not to offend?

I wouldn't.

You're most likely correct, and "aggressive" probably isn't the right word. Honesty is always preferred and Allen is, well...Allen. I just feel there's a connection between what's given and what's received, and that goes for most of us, myself included. Maybe I'm just bitter about the fact that Allen never moved down from "America's Vacation Land" to my "Taxachusetts."

[AllenLowe]

well, I just give my opinions and try to avoid personal attacks, and I think my record in this forum is pretty good in this way, at least for the past two years or so - I think you'll find that when people agree with me they don't find it abrasive, when they disagree, they do find it abrasive. This is normal human response - kinda like the old statement that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Think also how you tend to respond when you find something offensively misleading or shallow or not what it's cracked up to be. That will often give you cause to respond in a way that others might perceive as harsh (think Kenny G, Najee, and all the other G's here). it doesn't seem as bad, to you, in that case, because you are in agreement with the tone of the review. So there's more to it than just being "harsh."

I was worried that my "data" on Chico was old, so I've been doing a little re-listening. Some of it is better than I remembered, but it just has a second-hand feeling to it. As for his credibility with other musicians, I would not necessarily put a lot of stock in it as I've found musicians in general (with exceptions of course, like many people here including JSngry, with whom I frequently disagree but who always gives me pause) to be NOT the best critics.

Sometimes, it is true, that my personal response is exacerbated by my sense that certain musicians have no clothes, like the emperor of yore.

I think also that our response to forthright criticism may be effected by the jazz and music press, which is so polite and positive, in the worst posible sense.

by the way, I digress, but the most hostile response I've ever gotten in my life was when I posted on Jazz Research years ago that I was offended by the song Sheik of Araby because it seemed to me a song about rape - first time I ever got hate email (even Neil Tesser sent me one), though one woman on the list told me privately how glad she was that I said what I said. But people got furious at me - and that one hit me by surprise.

(best response was by someone who said "what are you talking about? the Redman band used to sing a version where they said "at night...into your tent I will creep...WITH MY PANTS OFF," as though somehow this was a refutation of my argument).

I actually think that the moderators here do not do a good enough job of policing nastiness, though the whole tone of this forum has improved - I mean, at one point I had someone here calling me a thief, quite literally, and when the posts were finally deleted the moderator acted as though we were both equally guilty of internet transgressions. And than I had another moderator close one of my threads simply, as has become obvious, because he dislikes me personally. But I guess that's just the way it is. There are, as I've learned, much worse things in life.

and by the way, look at that old kerouac thread that's just come back up - lot's of spirited insults, loud and abrasive opinions - someone wrote:"At the risk of kicking a sacred cow...I've always found On The Road to be tedious, poorly written, rambling, repetitive, irritating, shallow, pretentious, uninsightful, misogynist, narcissistic, pointless pseudo-hipster bunk. And now there's a longer version of it? So... even more tedious, rambling, repetitive, etc, etc."

Perfectly proper in its own way, maturely resolved. Tougher than the stuff I write by far. Is it ok just because Kerouac's dead?

and by the way, I'd move to Mass. in a minute if someone could find me a nice academic job and a decent place to live that was affordable -

Edited January 20, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Hot Ptah]

To me, there are saxophonists who are major league in imagination, vision, conceptualizing, and overall artistic genius, and then there are saxophonists who blow solos, with some talent in particular jazz styles. I think that Chico is one of the second category. When it comes together for him, he can be effective on certain solos. I do not expect from him a full blown body of work which is one of a piece on a very high artistic level. I go elsewhere for that. Having said that, sometimes the blowers of solos give pleasure. Sometimes their solos are not that interesting. In my mind, I judge the blowers of solos differently than the artistic geniuses, and it works for me.

So I would never say that the faces on Jazz Tenor Saxophone Mount Rushmore would include Chico Freeman, but I like to hear some of his solos, and some of his albums.

[sonnymax]

...and by the way, I'd move to Mass. in a minute if someone could find me a nice academic job and a decent place to live that was affordable -

I'll start cleaning out my garage this afternoon. We'll see about the job.

[Head Man]

Isn't it funny how these threads take on a life of their own sometimes (always?).

Here's me enquiring whether anybody knows how and what is being re-issued by Chico and the post then ends up being a technical evaluation of his musicianship. Me, I remember liking most of what he's recorded, especially the two 'Spirit' albums on India Navigation but then, I'm not a musician so what do I know?

[Chuck Nessa]

As I recall, when Bob Cummins (India Navigation) died the masters were left to the artists. I would imagine these are what Chico will be issuing.

[felser]

re: the fuss about Allen - If people whitewashed their views, this place would get a lot duller. The passion of the views is a lot of what makes the Organissimo forum what it is>

re: Chicago cred for C. Freeman - would be very interested to hear Chuck's take on this. I've often thought the same thing.

[Chuck Nessa]

Don't know. He seemed to come out of left field to me.

[clifford_thornton]

...and by the way, I'd move to Mass. in a minute if someone could find me a nice academic job and a decent place to live that was affordable -

I'll start cleaning out my garage this afternoon. We'll see about the job.

I'll be along as Allen's Personal Assistant.

[Head Man]

As I recall, when Bob Cummins (India Navigation) died the masters were left to the artists. I would imagine these are what Chico will be issuing.

Thanks Chuck. I've just checked and found out that Bob Cummins died in 2000 - I wonder why Chico's taken so long to make the recordings available, assuming that these ARE the ones about to come out?

[AllenLowe]

1) I'll be there Saturday - just please clean up the oil stains and the mouse turds and leave a doggie bed in the corner -

2) I've heard the same about Cummins, who was a genuinely nice guy. His wife is still around, I think - I wonder if she has any stake left in the company (all I can remember about her is that she had a little coffee shop in the Village. But that was like, maybe, 1977).

[papsrus]

To me, there are saxophonists who are major league in imagination, vision, conceptualizing, and overall artistic genius, and then there are saxophonists who blow solos, with some talent in particular jazz styles. I think that Chico is one of the second category. When it comes together for him, he can be effective on certain solos. I do not expect from him a full blown body of work which is one of a piece on a very high artistic level. I go elsewhere for that. Having said that, sometimes the blowers of solos give pleasure. Sometimes their solos are not that interesting. In my mind, I judge the blowers of solos differently than the artistic geniuses, and it works for me.

So I would never say that the faces on Jazz Tenor Saxophone Mount Rushmore would include Chico Freeman, but I like to hear some of his solos, and some of his albums.

I like that.

Listening to The Leaders -- "Slipping and Sliding" now and Freeman seems to fit nicely. It is overall a fairly gentle music, and so maybe this suits his playing? ... In any case, quite enjoyable.

[AllenLowe]

CHICO Freeman?

I thought we were talking about BUD Freeman.

never mind