What's similar to the Port of Harlem Jazzmen

[medjuck]

I love the Bluenote "Port of Harlem Jazzmen" cd (and Mosaic kindly sent me a copy of the notes to their OOP release) but I feel that I've never found anything else quite like it. ( I realize that each session under the name Port of Harlem Jazzmen was done by a slightly different group .) Anyone got any suggestions as to what I might find similar? I do have a few Bechet cds and the Mosaic box set and a good Frankie Newton compilation but nothing I like as much asa the Bluenote cd.

[jeffcrom]

The first thing I thought of was the Blue Note Jazzmen, led at various sessions by James P. Johnson, Edmond Hall, and Sidney DeParis. They were the focus of a now out of print Mosaic box, but you should still be able to find this CD. The are a little more "Dixieland-ish" than the Port of Harlem guys, but it's music of very high quality, with maybe a little of the same feel.

[Larry Kart]

I love the Bluenote "Port of Harlem Jazzmen" cd (and Mosaic kindly sent me a copy of the notes to their OOP release) but I feel that I've never found anything else quite like it. ( I realize that each session under the name Port of Harlem Jazzmen was done by a slightly different group .) Anyone got any suggestions as to what I might find similar? I do have a few Bechet cds and the Mosaic box set and a good Frankie Newton compilation but nothing I like as much asa the Bluenote cd.

IIRC correctly, a good deal of what's in the H.R.S. box, though of course that's OOP.

[Harold_Z]

I think Jeffcrom hit it. The POH sessions had a big emphasis on blues. They were swing era players who could play convincing blues. Like wise with BN Jazzmen. As Jeff says...a little more dixieland (which doesn't bother me in the least) but also a few blues tracks that are on a par with the POH tracks. Sidney DeParis acquits himself admirably and Edmund hall and Vic Dickenson are wonderful. Things of this ilk also can be found in the Commodore and HRS stable.

[Spontooneous]

Also, if you can find it, the Victor session where Frank Newton waxed "Blues My Baby Gave to Me."

[brownie]

The Hugues Panassié 1938 sessions for Victor with Mezz Mezzrow, Tommy Ladnier, Sidney de Paris, Sidney Bechet, James P. Johnson, Teddy Bunn, etc... preceded (and probably inspired) the BN Port of Harlem Jazzmen dates.

These are all splendid sessions.

[medjuck]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll start looking for them ASAP. ( I do have the H.R.S. Mosaic set which is great but most of it is more up-tempo than the POH.)

[John L]

The Hugues Panassié 1938 sessions for Victor with Mezz Mezzrow, Tommy Ladnier, Sidney de Paris, Sidney Bechet, James P. Johnson, Teddy Bunn, etc... preceded (and probably inspired) the BN Port of Harlem Jazzmen dates.

These are all splendid sessions.

Speaking of Bechet-Mezzrow, there are also the King sessions - some of the most low down blues in jazz ever recorded (IMO) with a LOT of slow tempos.

[medjuck]

I just discovered the King recordings. Well, sort of-- I downloaded from iTunes something called" Mezz Mezzrow talks about King Records". Mezz apparently was one of the owners of the label. There are 18 songs and each is introduced by a story from Mezz. It's fascinating and the music is as you describe and pretty great but now I have to figure out how to get rid of the spoken introductions for further listening. (Actually iTunes does allow you to indicate at what place you want to start listening.)

[king ubu]

I've not heard the music that brownie mentions, but I'd love to!

These Blue Note sessions are indeed special, and I think the 2CD Blue Note Jazzmen set would sort of fit what you're lookig for (but it IS different). The HRS Mosaic set is great, loads of great music there, and quite a bit of it would fit the bluesy small groups you seem to be looking for.

Here's one that might fit as well - it's less blues-based, but it's bautiful, I just played it again last night:

http://www.mighty-quinn.net/EdmondHall.html

[Big Beat Steve]

I just discovered the King recordings. Well, sort of-- I downloaded from iTunes something called" Mezz Mezzrow talks about King Records". Mezz apparently was one of the owners of the label. There are 18 songs and each is introduced by a story from Mezz. It's fascinating and the music is as you describe and pretty great but now I have to figure out how to get rid of the spoken introductions for further listening. (Actually iTunes does allow you to indicate at what place you want to start listening.)

DON'T just say "King Records" - this might too easily be confused with THAT real KING label from Cincinnati! The "King Jazz" records from the 40s were something different altogether. As for the musical merits of MEZZ on these - ho hum ... I've long had some of the LP series of those King Jazz recordings released on the Storyville label. In my book these are one of those cases where the put-downs of Mezz, stating he essentially only noodled and doodled scales up and down on his clarinet, were not THAT far off the mark . And stating in the "LP" liner notes something like "I am a giant and Sidney Bechet is going to help me to prove it" ... aw, c'mon. Bechet actually is the one who pulls it all together, and Mezz is just an also-ran.

Anyway ... let's face it, Mezz was and IS overrated, and vastly so, yet it's amazing to see how Hugues Panassie's pet dog Mezz Mezzrow seems to gain more and more accolades again the longer the earwitnesses of the era are dead. ;)

Edited January 20, 2010 by Big Beat Steve

[John L]

I just discovered the King recordings. Well, sort of-- I downloaded from iTunes something called" Mezz Mezzrow talks about King Records". Mezz apparently was one of the owners of the label. There are 18 songs and each is introduced by a story from Mezz. It's fascinating and the music is as you describe and pretty great but now I have to figure out how to get rid of the spoken introductions for further listening. (Actually iTunes does allow you to indicate at what place you want to start listening.)

DON'T just say "King Records" - this might too easily be confused with THAT real KING label from Cincinnati! The "King Jazz" records from the 40s were something different altogether. As for the musical merits of MEZZ on these - ho hum ... I've long had some of the LP series of those King Jazz recordings released on the Storyville label. In my book these are one of those cases where the put-downs of Mezz, stating he essentially only noodled and doodled scales up and down on his clarinet, were not THAT far off the mark . And stating in the "LP" liner notes something like "I am a giant and Sidney Bechet is going to help me to prove it" ... aw, c'mon. Bechet actually is the one who pulls it all together, and Mezz is just an also-ran.

Anyway ... let's face it, Mezz was and IS overrated, and vastly so, yet it's amazing to see how Hugues Panassie's pet dog Mezz Mezzrow seems to gain more and more accolades again the longer the earwitnesses of the era are dead. ;)

Yes, King Jazz records. While I agree with your assessment that Mezz is certainly the weakest link on those records, I don't find his playing to be terrible or distracting. I just take him in as a foil for the rest of the band. And what bands! Sidney Bechet's blues playing on those records goes beyond all superlatives. Then you have that first precious session with Hot Lips Page, Pops Foster, and Sidney Catlett. Beautiful music, if you ask me.

[brownie]

I've not heard the music that brownie mentions, but I'd love to!

They're essential sides. Most of them are available on the Classics Mezz Mezzrow 1936-1939 CD. Also on a Hugues Panassié Sessions CD from the Hot Club de France that I see around off and on. Will try to pick it up for you!

[king ubu]

I've not heard the music that brownie mentions, but I'd love to!

They're essential sides. Most of them are available on the Classics Mezz Mezzrow 1936-1939 CD. Also on a Hugues Panassié Sessions CD from the Hot Club de France that I see around off and on. Will try to pick it up for you!

That would be most kind! I've never seen any Mezzrow Classics around here!

[Peter Friedman]

Try to locate this one.

Edmond Hall -1937-1944 - Classics

Some of the tunes here are also on the Blue Note Jazzmen set.

[medjuck]

I've not heard the music that brownie mentions, but I'd love to!

They're essential sides. Most of them are available on the Classics Mezz Mezzrow 1936-1939 CD. Also on a Hugues Panassié Sessions CD from the Hot Club de France that I see around off and on. Will try to pick it up for you!

That would be most kind! I've never seen any Mezzrow Classics around here!

The Mezzrow Classics are going for $85 on Amazon! I do have the 4 cuts with Bechet on an RCA cd but Brownie if you can find a reasonably priced cd of the Panassie Sessions for me too I'd appreciate it.

[Harold_Z]

Amazon has mp3 downloads of Mezz Classics 1936-37 and also 1947-51 at $6.99 each. Not a bad deal although there are no liner notes. In this case you'll be able to get the discographical info easily elswwhere.

[Ted O'Reilly]

I've not heard the music that brownie mentions, but I'd love to!

These Blue Note sessions are indeed special, and I think the 2CD Blue Note Jazzmen set would sort of fit what you're lookig for (but it IS different). The HRS Mosaic set is great, loads of great music there, and quite a bit of it would fit the bluesy small groups you seem to be looking for.

Here's one that might fit as well - it's less blues-based, but it's bautiful, I just played it again last night:

http://www.mighty-quinn.net/EdmondHall.html

I agree with you 100%. I had that one copied to a CDR for listening, then got the Mighty Quinn version when it came out. The CD booklet doesn't have the LP's fleur-de-lis pattern under the script, though.

I had the great fortune of meeting the gentlemanly Mr. Hall, and he gave me a copy of that LP which I still have), autographed as "To Ted O'Reilly -- Very Best Wishes -- We are enjoying our time in Toronto Ont. -- Edmond Hall". He and his wife were in town as he was playing at a short-lived club.

[Big Beat Steve]

I've not heard the music that brownie mentions, but I'd love to!

They're essential sides. Most of them are available on the Classics Mezz Mezzrow 1936-1939 CD. Also on a Hugues Panassié Sessions CD from the Hot Club de France that I see around off and on. Will try to pick it up for you!

That would be most kind! I've never seen any Mezzrow Classics around here!

The Mezzrow Classics are going for $85 on Amazon! I do have the 4 cuts with Bechet on an RCA cd but Brownie if you can find a reasonably priced cd of the Panassie Sessions for me too I'd appreciate it.

Does this mean that I can sell my (60s/early 70s) "RCA Vintage Series" LP of the Mezzrow-Bechet-Ladnier Panassié sessions for top money now??

It went into my duplicates bin because I'd preferred to keep the RCA Black & Blue series LP with the same material (and 1 or 2 alternates) instead.

So - King Ubu, seeing that we are not that far apart, if you want that RCA Vintage Series LP, drop me a PM.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Big Beat Steve

[thomastreichler]

The Hugues Panassié 1938 sessions for Victor with Mezz Mezzrow, Tommy Ladnier, Sidney de Paris, Sidney Bechet, James P. Johnson, Teddy Bunn, etc... preceded (and probably inspired) the BN Port of Harlem Jazzmen dates.

These are all splendid sessions.

These sessions can also be found on the Mezz Mezzrow portion of the 40 CD compilation "The Cradle Of Jazz" on the History Label which is a treasure chest of well known, but also a lot of rare recordings of some of the most important exponents of early jazz in good sound. Here is the review of this set from the Allmusic site:

Review by arwulf arwulf

New Orleans, LA was dubbed the "Cradle of Jazz" by the first wave of jazz critics and historians who published essays, articles, and book-length treatises on the topic during the 1930s and early '40s. Several CD anthologies have since been issued using the phrase "Cradle of Jazz" in the title. Nobody has crammed more material into one box under this heading than Tokuma with their massive 40-disc longboat of traditional jazz and swing, first issued in 1997. This entity should under no circumstances be confused with Charly's 1998 compilation New Orleans: The Cradle of Jazz. Unlike that double disc, Tokuma's stash — a whopping 780 tracks spread out over more than three dozen discs — does not confine itself to Crescent City jazz, even if authentic New Orleans artists do predominate. Reedmen Jimmie Noone, Johnny Dodds, and Sidney Bechet each have at least 40 titles on this set, but so does Fats Waller, who was born and raised in Harlem and made music with only tangential links to the New Orleans tradition. This is not a chronologically or even geographically coordinated anthology. It's more like a bulk rate barge into which someone has dumped entire albums of classic jazz and swing. Artists who are represented here with 30 or more titles are Jelly Roll Morton, Jack Teagarden, Muggsy Spanier, Red Nichols, Eddie Condon, Louis Armstrong, and the Original Dixieland Jazz Band. Those who occupy between 20 and 25 tracks are Jabbo Smith, Bix Beiderbecke, Bud Freeman, Wild Bill Davison, Pee Wee Russell, Bennie Moten, Bill Coleman, Lu Watters, Scott Joplin (in the form of 20 player piano rolls), and two artists who are mostly represented as sidemen; trombonist J.C. Higginbotham and clarinetist Buster Bailey. Another 89 tracks are divvied up amongst Henry "Red" Allen, Kid Ory, Edmond Hall, George Wettling, and Mezz Mezzrow. Even taking all of this into account, the final 42 titles in the collection constitute the most varied and interesting leg of the journey. Here the producers chose to assemble a wildly varied blend of predominately rare sides by ensembles with exciting names like Boyd Senter & His Senterpedes, Jack Pettis & His Pets, Napoleon's Emperors, the New Orleans Owls, Paul Howard's Quality Serenaders, Bennett's Swamplanders, the Whoopee Makers, the Ross De Luxe Syncopators, Louis Dumaine's Jazzola Eight, Vance M. Dixon's Jazz Maniacs, Charles W. Creath's Jazz-O-Maniacs, Thomas Morris & His Seven Hot Babies, Reb Spikes Majors & Minors and George J. McClennon's Jazz Devils. It is good that the folks at Tokuma went to the trouble of shoveling so much diversity into the caboose end of their whale-sized compilation, remembering to include great but often overlooked heroes like Sam Morgan, Charles Dornberger, and J. Neal Montgomery, and tacking on recordings issued under the names Joe Venuti, Eddie Lang, Slim Lamar, Phil Baxter, Andy Preer, Lou Gold, George Olsen, Paul Whiteman, Roger Wolfe Kahn, and the Original Memphis Five. One glaring deficiency is the complete and utter absence of anything by the New Orleans Rhythm Kings, a vitally important group whose recordings and repertoire influenced the entire Chicago school of traditional jazz beginning with Bix Beiderbecke and extending through many of the artists featured on this compilation. There is also evidence of surprisingly sloppy production as in some cases the exact same recordings appear twice on different discs, attributed to both leaders and sidemen! Still and all, in this budget priced trove, Tokuma has given the world a vat of vintage recordings that more or less define the classic tradition of New Orleans jazz, some of the best mementos of its transplanted heydays in Chicago and the flowering of the continuum in New York City during the 1930s.

[brownie]

I have the full Sidney Bechet Victor twofers from Jazz Tribune on LPs, from the same sources as the RCA Black and White LPs that Big Beat Steve mentions.

The final volume:

has the complete sessions (with all alternate takes) that Panassié supervised for RCA in 1938/1939.

The sound is better tha on the reissue CDs I have listened to.

Have to correct a previous post about this 'Panassié Sessions' CD from the Hot Club de France. It has a photo of one of the Mezzrow-Ladnier session on its cover but includes only a couple of the sides recorded then!

Edited January 21, 2010 by brownie

[medjuck]

I'm confused: I have the cd of the Jazz Tribune "Complete Sidney Bechet" 1931-42 and it only has 4 cuts from 1938. (And it should really be called The Complete Sidney Bechet on Victor.) There are some cuts with Sidney de Paris from 1940. Are they from the Panassie Sessions? Or can someone lead me to a listing of the Panassie Sessions. BTW I've had a great time re-listening to all these Bechet sessions. Most of them are great-- even the ones on King Jazz.

[John L]

I'm confused: I have the cd of the Jazz Tribune "Complete Sidney Bechet" 1931-42 and it only has 4 cuts from 1938. (And it should really be called The Complete Sidney Bechet on Victor.) There are some cuts with Sidney de Paris from 1940. Are they from the Panassie Sessions? Or can someone lead me to a listing of the Panassie Sessions. BTW I've had a great time re-listening to all these Bechet sessions. Most of them are great-- even the ones on King Jazz.

The Jazz Tribune series that Brownie is talking about consists of 5 2-disc sets that release all of Bechet on RCA I have it too. Brownie is talking about volume 5 in this series. There are actually only a handful of tracks by Bechet on it. The Panassie sessions with Ladnier, Newton and Mezzrow comprise the rest.

Edited January 22, 2010 by John L

[J.A.W.]

I'm confused: I have the cd of the Jazz Tribune "Complete Sidney Bechet" 1931-42 and it only has 4 cuts from 1938. (And it should really be called The Complete Sidney Bechet on Victor.) There are some cuts with Sidney de Paris from 1940. Are they from the Panassie Sessions? Or can someone lead me to a listing of the Panassie Sessions. BTW I've had a great time re-listening to all these Bechet sessions. Most of them are great-- even the ones on King Jazz.

The Jazz Tribune series that Brownie is talking about consists of 5 2-disc sets that release all of Bechet on RCA I have it too. Brownie is talking about volume 5 in this series. There are actually only a handful of tracks by Bechet on it. The Panassie sessions with Ladnier, Newton and Mezzrow comprise the rest.

Actually, there are 3 2CD-sets, not 5:

Jazz Tribune No.10 - Vols.1/2, 1932-1941

Jazz Tribune No.18 - Vols.3/4, 1941

Jazz Tribune No.46 - Vol.5, 1941-1943 (plus Tommy Ladnier/Mezz Mezzrow/Frankie Newton, 1938-1939)

[medjuck]

I own the first 2 of these but not the 3rd. However I do have the Frankie Newton session that Spoontaneous mentions which is one of the Panssie sessions. So I guess I'm just missing the one with de Paris-- or are there others I'm missing?