Question about "breaking in" a cartridge.

[Bol]

I will be receiving my first turntable (Rega P1) in about 2 days. A person who seems to be quite knowledgeable about audio matters has told me that one needs to break in a new cartridge by playing on it for 20-30 hours. He has also told me that I should use clean LP's when I do this, and also that the LP's I use may get damaged in the process. I asked Vladimir, the audio guy at Cadence, about this, and he says that the last part of the advice I got -- about the LP's getting damaged -- is complete hogwash. Could people give me their opinion as to who is right? Obviously, if LPs will get damaged in the breaking in process, I'd hate to play my Commodore LPs in the first few days, and would want to go out and buy a cheap and clean LP for the purpose. Thanks in advance.

[sonnymax]

Your question interests me, even though I have no first-hand knowledge based on experience. I did, however, learn that the purpose of "breaking in" a cartridge is to exercise, and thus loosen, the suspension. One source recommends placing the needle on a "locked groove", rather than repeatedly playing a side of one of your treasured LPs. Actually, most records have a locked groove (a groove that never ends) at the end of a side to keep the stylus from running onto the label. Alternatively, most scratch/battle records also contain a locked groove to provide that never-ending, quite monotonous, and possibly vomit-inducing funky disco beat that the kidz love to bump their booties to.

[Clunky]

A cart once "run in" simply sounds better , I've never heard any talk of damage and that's certainly not been my experience.

[Ted O'Reilly]

"Break in a cartridge"? Hogwash. In 60+ years of listening to flat records on every sort of record player/turntable from my first childish windup through 50 years of radio, I've never heard anyone, any engineer even suggest such a thing. Just use it properly, and change the stylus when needed.

[Shawn]

Listen to Ted.

Just play the albums that you want, the cartridge will be fine.

[porcy62]

Listen to Ted.

Just play the albums that you want, the cartridge will be fine.

Exactly, about cleaning LP, I'd do it anyway, the stylus will last longer.

[sidewinder]

As previously mentioned - your LPs will be fine.

If not, I will have already trashed several gems

[Man with the Golden Arm]

I guess mine got broken in when I left it in the "locked groove", as yall call it, for a couple days having forgotten to do the manual voodoo.

just don't do what I did to a previous table and not play a record for eons - the cartridge innards lost their suppleness after years of stagnation, much like myself. :blush2:

[Teasing the Korean]

You have to color the edges of your LPs with a green magic marker before you can play them with a new cartridge. They will sound better that way.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

please be careful!

[JSngry]

One source recommends placing the needle on a "locked groove", rather than repeatedly playing a side of one of your treasured LPs. Actually, most records have a locked groove (a groove that never ends) at the end of a side to keep the stylus from running onto the label.

O.....k.....

Let's get this on the table now, and leave it there for posterity:

There is only one groove on a LP side. It runs from the beginning of the side all the way through to the label area. A truly locked groove would result in the stylus having to be manually moved to the next track. There have been such records made, but not for general consumption. The reason your stylus "bumps" back when it hits the label is physics, not any kind of a "locked" groove. Set your tracking force light enough, and that bad boy will jump right on up there and raise all kinds of holy hell.

Aside from possible damage to the vinyl from raising the temperature and softening the vinyl through massively repetitive play, the only difference between playing an LP side over and over and letting it stay in that so-called "locked groove" (equally inaccurately known as the "runoff groove") is that when you leave it be, you keep letting your stylus bump up against and into the label area, which is a mixture of paper, ink, glue, and subatomic particles that have been known to cause humans to grow tails out of their noses.

I don't see how that's good for either you or your stylus, never mind your cartridge.

[sonnymax]

O.....k.....

Let's get this on the table now, and leave it there for posterity:

Oh, gee. Where do I begin?

There is only one groove on a LP side.

Agreed, no problem there.

It runs from the beginning of the side all the way through to the label area.

Hold on there Texas toast. Houston, we have a problem. A lock groove is placed at the end of a record for the sole purpose of keeping you from going "all the way to the label area." Consider the following:

At the end of the record, after about two blank revolutions, the final spiral lead-out groove is made by speeding up the lead screw of the cutting lathe, either automatically or manually, followed by a lock groove.

and:

Towards the centre, at the end of the groove, there is another wide-pitched section known as the lead-out. At the very end of this section the groove joins itself to form a complete circle, called the lock groove; when the stylus reaches this point, it circles repeatedly until lifted from the record.

Interestingly, I read that in the early days of making records, the lock groove was created on a separate machine specifically design for this purpose.

The reason your stylus "bumps" back when it hits the label is physics, not any kind of a "locked" groove. Set your tracking force light enough, and that bad boy will jump right on up there and raise all kinds of holy hell.

Rubbish. I could set the tracking force light enough so that the cartridge hovers over and never touches the record. With your kind of logic, one might conclude that there is no groove at all.

Aside from possible damage to the vinyl...

I won't bother to cite the rest of your quote, because I agree that there might be a risk of damage to stylus and/or record due to excessive wear. I do, however, disagree that said damage would result from the stylus running "into the label area". Unless the tracking is set improperly or the record is defective insofar as it causes the stylus to jump up and over, the lock groove should perform it's function and prevent this from occurring.

Now, before I put my red pen away, I’d like to circle the opening sentence in your post. You wrote: “Let's get this on the table now, and leave it there for posterity” Often phrased as “let’s put this on the table,” or perhaps more properly, “let’s table this for discussion,” this statement signifies that the speaker wishes to bring up a topic to be discussed by the group. In contrast, I read your post as an attempt to "set the record straight" by pointing out the errors in my initial statement. If I am correct in this assumption, then your aim was to settle the lock groove issue once and for all (“for prosperity”). Someone with that goal in mind might say, “Let’s get this off [not on] the table,” and then present one or more irrefutable facts meant to put an end to the discussion. A fine distinction, I'll admit, but no more so than some of the points raised in your argument.

I'm sure you'll have more to say on this and other matters, so for now, I won't "clear the table", "put this baby to bed", "lay the ghost to rest"...

[JSngry]

Well, put the needle in the groove, at least...

Your information is no doubt correct, and I gladly stand corrected on the existence of a "lock groove", but I would not wager that it is consistent. I have had records where the stylus bumps up against the label. So either the lock groove was not placed on the record or else that it was covered by the label through sloppy manufacturing. I have bought some pretty, uh...."budget" product over the years....

Now, at this time of the day, if we're going to put anything on the table, let's make it meat loaf. That sounds pretty good right about now.

[mikeweil]

The locked groove at the end of an LP side might not be running smoothly, I can't imagine it being harmless to have the stylus jump over such a thing for hours ...

Only thing in a turntable that might need breaking in is the motor - I read stories of an audio engineer having his turntable running for months before putting on a record!

I simply play my LPs and use one repeatedly to watch for sonic differences that might become audible when I mount a new cartridge.

[sonnymax]

Now, at this time of the day, if we're going to put anything on the table, let's make it meat loaf. That sounds pretty good right about now.

Ahhhhh. Meatloaf.

[paul secor]

Just play some records and enjoy the music.

[jeffcrom]

Slightly off topic:

The LP version of Carla Bley's Escalator Over the Hill ends with the last note extended into the lock groove, so that it goes on forever - or at least until you pick up the tonearm. I always thought that was a cool little effect. How does the CD issue handle that last note?

Edited September 22, 2010 by jeffcrom

[Jay]

Listen to Vlad.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Now, at this time of the day, if we're going to put anything on the table, let's make it meat loaf. That sounds pretty good right about now.

Ahhhhh. Meatloaf.

sorry

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=J866qrtanOI

[porcy62]

Slightly off topic:

The LP version of Carla Bley's Escalator Over the Hill ends with the last note extended into the lock groove, so that it goes on forever - or at least until you pick up the tonearm. I always thought that was a cool little effect. How does the CD issue handle that last note?

The Beatles did it before on Sg Pepper's.

[porcy62]

The locked groove at the end of an LP side might not be running smoothly, I can't imagine it being harmless to have the stylus jump over such a thing for hours ...

Only thing in a turntable that might need breaking in is the motor - I read stories of an audio engineer having his turntable running for months before putting on a record!

I simply play my LPs and use one repeatedly to watch for sonic differences that might become audible when I mount a new cartridge.

Actually breakin in a cartridge isn't an audiophile myth at all. As Clunky said above after some hours of playing the cartridge got its proper sound, a brand new one might sound a little harsh at the first listenings, just like new loudspeakers. It's not different then any other mechanical based device like the engine of a car or motorbike. The way the common people do it is just drive the bike or playing records. Obviously if you are a top rider in the Nascar your engine is breaked in on the test bench...and if you're a top audiophile geek you cartridge is breaked in on awful records.

Me I am a common man.

Edited September 22, 2010 by porcy62

[jeffcrom]

Slightly off topic:

The LP version of Carla Bley's Escalator Over the Hill ends with the last note extended into the lock groove, so that it goes on forever - or at least until you pick up the tonearm. I always thought that was a cool little effect. How does the CD issue handle that last note?

The Beatles did it before on Sg Pepper's.

I'm sure I knew that at one time, but it's been a while.

[JSngry]

Now, at this time of the day, if we're going to put anything on the table, let's make it meat loaf. That sounds pretty good right about now.

Ahhhhh. Meatloaf.

Oh, I could tell you stories...

[Chuck Nessa]

Always outline the meatloaf (not the musician) with green magic markers.

Now go play the damn records.

Forget all the voodoo.

[kh1958]

You should play the records at varied speeds--33 and 1/3, 27, 58, 78, 89, 11, until you've covered a couple of thousand miles of grooves, then after that you can go any speed you want.