Wynton Marsalis & Eric Clapton Play The Blues

[fasstrack]

Not going anywhere, Jazzbo. Just calling myself out and trying to figure out how to best use my remaing years and talents to do a little good. Maybe bring a little beauty and goodwill into a fucked up world while living in relative comfort. I can laugh at jealous amateurs and failed wannabes. Actual musicians fighting like rats or children makes me ill. I come from a fractious, tragedy-touched family. Music is a refuge. No way I want or will sit through a 2nd act. I've watched musicians I've loved blow themselves up over BS like this. That's stupid and selfish b/c the world needs their beauty. I hope to make a recording soon with original and covered songs on the theme of disappointed Romantics who nonetheless keep getting up. That and a book on the musicians who raised me, their generosity, and invisibility to whore sbribes will take all the time not spent working days and will make a more useful statement than I could to the 'converted' here. Sorry I went off but I'm tired. And, hey. I'm a Jew. We're noisy.

[Noj]

Joel. We need you here. We need your viewpoint, your sermons. Don't go anywhere.

I don't get what he's so mad about.

You do what? Maybe you could quote the post you're responding to, that would be easier for dummies like me.

Pretty sure he was referring to jlhoots' post a few back, Hans.

I do.

[kenny weir]

Jimmie Vaughan is OK too but in MUCH more limited way than SRV

Different criteria for me, I guess

What Jimmie has that his brother didn't: A real sense of taste.

I think they both had taste, I just think Jimmy was/is more of a "band guy" by temperament, Stevie more a soloist.

Today's music sensibilities, most all of it, is so focused on the individual highlight(s) that it's hard to remember what being in a band means/meant. Whole 'other thing, that.

Yeah, you're right. And I KNOW I'm more of a band guy, hence my preference.

[JSngry]

I hope to make a recording soon with original and covered songs on the theme of disappointed Romantics who nonetheless keep getting up.

Here's a possible cover photo, It almost looks like one of those great Pete Turner shots that CTI used to such good effect, but on closer examination, it's perfect for the theme of "keep getting up".

Hell, there's your album title right there - Keep Getting Up. Or, if you can get Don Schlitten involved, Keep Gettin' Up!!!

Eitehr way, the faux-Pete Turner look is always good for product placement. Always!

[jazzbo]

I do.

You do what? Maybe you could quote the post you're responding to, that would be easier for dummies like me.

Quoting all the time is pretty boring. There was no post in between mine and Larry's when I hit add reply, and I thought it wouldn't be hard to figure out.

[J.A.W.]

I do.

You do what? Maybe you could quote the post you're responding to, that would be easier for dummies like me.

Quoting all the time is pretty boring. There was no post in between mine and Larry's when I hit add reply, and I thought it wouldn't be hard to figure out.

It may be boring, but sometimes the reply appears several posts later than the post it's a response to and its relevance and/or logic gets lost in the mist of a topic.

Edited September 13, 2011 by J.A.W.

[Chuck Nessa]

But: Chuck, fuck your 'drive-bys' You drop a snarky one-liner then get out of Dodge. Have the balls to stay and debate, or at least SAY something of substance. You did this when I put something up about making jazz popular again. To keep the peace, and b'c you're a mensch who produces good jazz I didn't answer, but I didn't appreciate it and, again, it took no balls. Jim, you're also a good guy.

Please let me know the issues I should respond to and/or debate. I think I have stated my opinions and the reasons for them as clearly as possible. Do you want to challenge them? If so, do it. I have not insulted anyone in this thread.

Sincerely,

No Balls Chuck.

[fasstrack]

I hope to make a recording soon with original and covered songs on the theme of disappointed Romantics who nonetheless keep getting up.

Here's a possible cover photo, It almost looks like one of those great Pete Turner shots that CTI used to such good effect, but on closer examination, it's perfect for the theme of "keep getting up".

Hell, there's your album title right there - Keep Getting Up.

Already got a title and a humorous cover concept. Thanks, though. And thanks for taking what I said before like a man. You MFs are killing me. I like y'all so much I'll 'lay around and stay around' and never DO shit. If you guys really like tell me to stay the f away and go make the CD and book. I swear, this like quitting smoking. You just want 'one last one'...

[JSngry]

And thanks for taking what I said before like a man.

No idea which "what" that was (and also not sure how I took it "like a man"...maybe the Viagra photo's to blame?) , but if it was the one about "where's YOUR album?", the answer is that they're either in the garage, or at Lyles' house, probably in his garage. As far as I know, there's still plenty left of the first one, that's for sure. That's what happens when the pressing plant mistakes an order of 500 for an order of 1000 and doesn't charge you for their mistake. The second one might be gone, but that's what happens when you only print 100 or so copies and give about half of them away.

Moral of the story - keep that garage ready!

[AllenLowe]

when threads get this long, reading the individual posts out of context (if there is a context) becomes like listening to Professor Irwin Corey.

but I like it.

[jazzbo]

I do.

You do what? Maybe you could quote the post you're responding to, that would be easier for dummies like me.

Quoting all the time is pretty boring. There was no post in between mine and Larry's when I hit add reply, and I thought it wouldn't be hard to figure out.

It may be boring, but sometimes the reply appears several posts later than the post it's a response to and its relevance and/or logic gets lost in the mist of a topic.

Okay, I didn't think it was that hard to figure out, but I would have done the quote thing if there were posts in between mine and JLHoot's when I hit "add reply."

Joel, thanks for clarifying.

I sometimes feel really frustrated when I read these posts that seem to be so negative and yet I know they serve a purpose too.

Best wishes on the release, I think it's going to be a good one!

[JSngry]

when threads get this long, reading the individual posts out of context (if there is a context) becomes like listening to Professor Irwin Corey.

but I like it.

Successfully multi-tasking is the new literacy.

Not that there was anything wrong with the old literacy...

[johnlitweiler]

Virtuosity isn't just playing fast. Little Walter could create sounds that nobody ever heard before, for instance "Blue Lights" - at least he could do that before Chess engineers started recording him differently. Not that virtuosity was the most important thing he did. His harmonica solo versions of big-band style (some songs, too) made more sense than, for instance, classical piano reductions of symphonic works. Walter's harmonica solo records were always one of a kind. Who needs blues singers? And yet he was a strong singer, in a Muddy Waters style but Walter had a high cracked voice.

I began listening to Muddy Waters' band in Chicago clubs in 1960 - Smitty's, Swingtown, Shake's, etc. The tight ensembles, the integration of elements, not Chicago, guitar), and Muddy's own intensity all came together in some of the most ecstatic, mind-blowing music I ever heard. Muddy's later bands, without Pat Hare or James Cotton or Otis Spann, always sounded weaker. No doubt some of my excitement came from my youth. Nevertheless, this early experience plus other Chicago artists, blues radio, and visiting or working at the Jazz Record Mart - mainly, hearing so much blues when blues was still a living, breathing art - made a lot of the decadent stages of the idiom (Clapton, Vaughan, etc.) sound decaffeinated.

Chuck, Big Joe told good stories, too. Jim, thanks for remembering Wayne Bennett.

[MomsMobley]

Jim, thanks for remembering Wayne Bennett.

Did JIm riff Wayne Bennett? I did too, like I always riff Eddie Durham & Chauncey Morehouse too. If so, salut-- we can't disagree about anything.

Growing up in California, the first electric guitars I heard were hillbilly but the first blues players I saw regularly was Johnny Moore although T-Bone Walker on those occasions I wasn't trying to get someone naked.

I was cool to much Chicago blues though of course the best of it is deathless. Much as I appreciate Koester-- used to shoot the shit with him at the north side annex or whatever-- I'd say only half (or less) of the Delmark blues catalog is listenable (as opposed to 'admirable'), which-- it must be said-- is half again as much the fucking Alligator or Bullseye catalogs.

Guitar Slim

too bad Clapton & Gram Parsons didn't play together, they could have ruined two otherwise great genres of music-- and Wynton makes three!

Smiley Lewis

Wynton Kelly was from Brooklyn via Jamaican parents, thank you very much

Edited September 14, 2011 by MomsMobley

[fasstrack]

Chuck: I never said YOU had no balls. You got plenty. Drive-by sarcasm justs gets to me b/c it's a tease. You're a hero, if anything, to me for going to bat for real jazz with all going against it. But to be honest I've come to view you--on this board, the only place I know you--as a bit of a shooter-downer. I've grown to worry that if I start a topic is this guy gonna zing me again? To the point of considering putting you on ignore. THAT much. I admit I'm too sensitive. We're adults here and I'm as much an asshole as anyone--at least. But maybe getting it out and off before moving on is a good thing. Especially if the people are good.

[MomsMobley]

i understand the sensitivity of a dude who's spent his whole life searching for just the 'tastey' 'tone' & 'chord substitution'-- much respect, on those terms but I don't give a damn about Kenny Burrell (goddamn he's so "tasty!") or post-'58 Jim Hall either (so ethereal)-- but you wanna talk Dave Tarras and we can say shalom!

Clapton, Winston et al are fucking horrible, a blight on SOUND, dig? It's like rock jerkoffs who revere the Band, despite all evidence to the contrary that they were anything but one-shot mediocrities-- and that ONE idea wasn't really so hot either, once you really thought about it, esp. in a world where Hank Snow still wore nudie suits.

Would you dare compare his musical contribution to that of Jerry Garcia orJohn Lee Hooker?

Not going anywhere, Jazzbo. Just calling myself out and trying to figure out how to best use my remaing years and talents to do a little good. Maybe bring a little beauty and goodwill into a fucked up world while living in relative comfort. I can laugh at jealous amateurs and failed wannabes. Actual musicians fighting like rats or children makes me ill. I come from a fractious, tragedy-touched family. Music is a refuge. No way I want or will sit through a 2nd act. I've watched musicians I've loved blow themselves up over BS like this. That's stupid and selfish b/c the world needs their beauty. I hope to make a recording soon with original and covered songs on the theme of disappointed Romantics who nonetheless keep getting up. That and a book on the musicians who raised me, their generosity, and invisibility to whore sbribes will take all the time not spent working days and will make a more useful statement than I could to the 'converted' here. Sorry I went off but I'm tired. And, hey. I'm a Jew. We're noisy.

Edited September 14, 2011 by MomsMobley

[fasstrack]

I like Dave Tarras. He came and gave lessons to my friend Mike down the block in Canarsie. Kenny Burrell and Joe Pass play like humanitarians--people-lovers. Peter Green is a MF.I love The Band. Soul all the way and great songwriters. Shoot me. And that's all the, um, COIOCH I got tonight. Up at 4 as the struggle continues...

[jeffcrom]

Dave Tarras and Naftule Brandwein were the Jimmie Noone and Johnny Dodds of klezmer clarinet. I love them both.

And that's my irrelevant contribution to this thread.

[AllenLowe]

John mentioned PAT HARE a few posts back. Almost forgot about him - one of the real pioneers of electric guitar - if you can, find the Rounder CD with Junior Parker and James Cotton. Hare was one of the best (until he killed his girlfriend and the cop who came to help her).

[J.A.W.]

John mentioned PAT HARE a few posts back. Almost forgot about him - one of the real pioneers of electric guitar - if you can, find the Rounder CD with Junior Parker and James Cotton. Hare was one of the best (until he killed his girlfriend and the cop who came to help her).

That Parker/Cotton/Hare CD is indeed excellent; it's available from Amazon, though it might be cheaper elsewhere.

Edited September 14, 2011 by J.A.W.

[AllenLowe]

he was a master - one thing that people don't seem to understand with blues guitarists is that, given the limited harmonic paletter with which they work, time is everything. And Hare was a master of rhythm, as was Peter Green; Hendrix was a genius in this respect. Same thing with T. Bone Walker. Bloomfield had it, too.

[MomsMobley]

I forgot Henry Vestine, my mistake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlbAxtKXwJo

It's unfortunate a lot of hot Henry is lost to Blind Al Wilson's well-intentioned blubbering but...

(Vestine + Ayler >>>>>> Joe Morris' career x 10, needless to say.)

Also, here's what CAN be done by a great guitarist/composer with Jim Gordon on drums, rather than Crapton's jive junkie mewling-- "blues" solo at 1:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoJLMUBSMkc

[Hot Ptah]

Another example of Zappa with Jim Gordon, (and another former Clapton associate, Jack Bruce), is the instrumental title track to "Apostrophe".

[John L]

one thing that would call for further research, re: Moms and Larry - I have a hunch, based on some accounts I've read, that the first use of the vocal/instrumental obligatto/call and response was in early (1830s-1840s) minstrelsy - there are some accounts that seem to imply this, and if true it is quite significant for both blues and jazz. Some day when I have time, I hope to get some sense of how accurate this is (lately I've been reading every text on minstrelsy I can find for a new musical project).

That is interesting, Allen. I had always assumed that call and response came directly from West African music. It is certainly prominent in traditional West African musics.

[AllenLowe]

well, the minstrel guys would likely have picked it up from Black musicians -