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Sonny Rollins Live in Europe 1959 - Complete Recordings

Hardbopjazz

By Hardbopjazz
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Larry Kart Proficient

Larry Kart

Posted
Posted

Can't post link to boots. Removed.

Fine but where does this stop. Why didn't you delete this: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/67044-anyone-know-about-a-cd-of-miless-paris-bcasts/ - ?

Done.

It stops where it's supposed to, given the rules of the site and pending the alertness of the moderators. So nice of you to ask.

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Clunky Enthusiast

Clunky

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Posted (edited)

I'm confused. The banned item above appears to be a PD reissue which is legal in Europe. Is this correct and if it is, does that me all PD reissues are off limits (in this forum) ? I have no desire to fan the flames, only seeking clarity. I have some very nice Hep, Frog, Timeless PD issues to name just a few......

Edited by Clunky
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J.A.W. Apprentice

J.A.W.

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm confused. The banned item above appears to be a PD reissue which is legal in Europe. Is this correct and if it is, does that me all PD reissues are off limits (in this forum) ? I have no desire to fan the flames, only seeking clarity. I have some very nice Hep, Frog, Timeless PD issues to name just a few......

I think the point is that the topic of this thread is a live recording the artist didn't give permission for, i.e. an "unofficial", unauthorized, illegal recording. The Hep, Frog, etc. discs are PD (in Europe) reissues of official recordings.

Edited by J.A.W.
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J.A.W. Apprentice

J.A.W.

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Posted (edited)

There is a lot of records we will not be able to discuss if those non-official releases are banned from this Board.

Is there any way of finding a compromise that would satisfy most participants?

You'd have to take that up with Jim, he makes the rules here.

By the way, discussing those releases is not against the rules, posting links is.

Edited by J.A.W.
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Mark Stryker Collaborator

Mark Stryker

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Posted

Not sure of official forum policy and I'll leave that to the moderators and follow the rules. But I was under the impression that discussion was allowed about any release but posting direct links to the sources for bootlegs (however they are defined) such as file sharing sites was a definite breach. I am less clear about whether it's ok to link to, say, the specific recording on a legit site like Amazon.

A clear statement of policy would be helpful I think.

For what it's worth, I saw that Sonny 1959 set yesterday at the store in the New Release/Import bin. Will discuss further specifics once we get a ruling ...

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J.A.W. Apprentice

J.A.W.

Posted
Posted (edited)

Not sure of official forum policy and I'll leave that to the moderators and follow the rules. But I was under the impression that discussion was allowed about any release but posting direct links to the sources for bootlegs (however they are defined) such as file sharing sites was a definite breach. I am less clear about whether it's ok to link to, say, the specific recording on a legit site like Amazon.

A clear statement of policy would be helpful I think.

For what it's worth, I saw that Sonny 1959 set yesterday at the store in the New Release/Import bin. Will discuss further specifics once we get a ruling ...

There are plenty of illegit releases on Amazon and yes, as I have posted a few times in my moderator days and as I said in my response to Brownie's post, discussing bootlegs is allowed, but linking them (to Amazon or wherever) is not. See also my post #10. Perhaps one of the current moderators could say something about this.

Edited by J.A.W.
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Mark Stryker Collaborator

Mark Stryker

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As I was saying, I saw this yesterday at the store and I'm sure I'll be getting it, perhaps as early as tomorrow. Of the material on the '59 set, I have heard maybe half by total timing. I have a Dragon LP that covers the March 4 Stockholm radio broadcast with Grimes/LaRoca, plus a live "St. Thomas" recorded on the same trip. I haven't listened to this in a long time, but I recall the playing as good in the studio but nothing earth shaking -- but that "St. Thomas" is from another planet! Always wished everything on the LP was as smoking; according to an online discography (which certainly has some holes)there appears to be just one other cut ("Paul's Pal") from the same date as "St. Thomas." I also have a CD that has three pretty spectacular tracks with Grimes and Kenny Clarke from Aix-en-Province ("Woody'N You," "But Not For Me," "Lady Bird"). Long tracks, Sonny plays A LOT, though I sometimes wish there was a little more variety in the tempos since all are at nearly the same medium 4. But that's a nit. Tremendous flow to Sonny's playing.

Anybody else heard the rest of the 1959 material? Interesting time -- the last known recordings I gather before the first sabbatical.

What I did buy yesterday was something called Sonny Rollins Trio, "Live in Munich 1965" with NHOP and Alan Dawson. Oct. 29, 1965. Material listed as "Darn that Dream," "Standards Medley into There Will Be Another You" "The Song is You," "On Green Dolphin Street/Night and Day." I had high hopes, especially because this same trio is responsible for the the Copenhagen concert recorded just a couple days later and issued on the recent Jazz Icons DVD -- for me, that's some of the greatest, most jaw-dropping Sonny ever captured on film or audio, period. Anyway, the Munich concert disappointed me. Sonny sounds distracted, out of sorts (jet lagged?), and he doesn't actually solo that much. The a cappella intro into "There Will Never Be Another You" is fun as he runs through snippets of some familiar tunes, including sticking with "Pent-Up House" long enough that the trio joins in. But I get the feeling that Sonny just didn't really know what he wanted to play, and probably wished he didn't have to play anything.

Caveat emptor.

Edited by Mark Stryker
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JSngry Grand Master

JSngry

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Posted

As I was saying, I saw this yesterday at the store and I'm sure I'll be getting it, perhaps as early as tomorrow. Of the material on the '59 set, I have about half on a Dragon LP, including the March 4 Stockholm radio broadcast with Grimes/LaRoca, plus a live St. Thomas recorded on the same trip. I haven't listened to this is a long time, but I recall the playing as good in the studio but nothing earth shaking -- but that "St. Thomas" is from another planet! Always wished everything on the LP was as smoking; according to an online discography (which certainly has some holes since the new collection has stuff not listed), there appears to be just oneother cut ("Paul's Pal") from the same date as "St. Thomas." I also have a CD that has three pretty spectacular tracks with Grimes and Kenny Clarke from Aix-en-Province ("Woody'N You," "But Not For Me," "Lady Bird") though all are taken at about the same medium tempo.

Anybody else heard the rest of the 1959 material. Interesting time -- the last known recordings I gather before the first sabbatical.

The Dragon CD added a some live concert material (from the same day as the broadcast), with Joe Harris on drums . A Moon CD contained some four tunes from 3/8/59, with LaRocca back on drums.

All is dandy.

I have the Aix en Provence material (the trio with Klook) on a 1989(!) Royal Jazz CD, and yeah, it's pretty spellbinding. Sonny is just playing, no worries or distractions, at least that I can here. About as "pure" of an example of his playing from the late 50s as can be heard, but I can also hear moments of frustration, like he's wanting to go somewhere that he can't quite get his hands on. The sabbatical makes sense after hearing all this material, but damn, what a way to go out!

What's left on this new boot is probably stuff that's been circulating in some fashion, but I've not aggressively pursued it. I expect it to be of lesser sonic quality (or possibly, but not necessarily likely, not even from 1959 at all, the quality standards on boots these days has gone all to hell...), but oh well about that.

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Mark Stryker Collaborator

Mark Stryker

Posted
Posted

As I was saying, I saw this yesterday at the store and I'm sure I'll be getting it, perhaps as early as tomorrow. Of the material on the '59 set, I have about half on a Dragon LP, including the March 4 Stockholm radio broadcast with Grimes/LaRoca, plus a live St. Thomas recorded on the same trip. I haven't listened to this is a long time, but I recall the playing as good in the studio but nothing earth shaking -- but that "St. Thomas" is from another planet! Always wished everything on the LP was as smoking; according to an online discography (which certainly has some holes since the new collection has stuff not listed), there appears to be just oneother cut ("Paul's Pal") from the same date as "St. Thomas." I also have a CD that has three pretty spectacular tracks with Grimes and Kenny Clarke from Aix-en-Province ("Woody'N You," "But Not For Me," "Lady Bird") though all are taken at about the same medium tempo.

Anybody else heard the rest of the 1959 material. Interesting time -- the last known recordings I gather before the first sabbatical.

The Dragon CD added a some live concert material (from the same day as the broadcast), with Joe Harris on drums . A Moon CD contained some four tunes from 3/8/59, with LaRocca back on drums.

All is dandy.

I have the Aix en Provence material (the trio with Klook) on a 1989(!) Royal Jazz CD, and yeah, it's pretty spellbinding. Sonny is just playing, no worries or distractions, at least that I can here. About as "pure" of an example of his playing from the late 50s as can be heard, but I can also hear moments of frustration, like he's wanting to go somewhere that he can't quite get his hands on. The sabbatical makes sense after hearing all this material, but damn, what a way to go out!

What's left on this new boot is probably stuff that's been circulating in some fashion, but I've not aggressively pursued it. I expect it to be of lesser sonic quality (or possibly, but not necessarily likely, not even from 1959 at all, the quality standards on boots these days has gone all to hell...), but oh well about that.

Thanks for the report ...

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JSngry Grand Master

JSngry

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Posted

All that's new to me here is the first seven tracks on Disc 2. The performances are all top-shelf, and the sound quality of this material never dips below acceptable relative to age/source. By my standards, it's all pretty good, actually.

All this stuff is pretty essential for the serious Rollins fan. Only the material that's been released on Dragon has seen "legitimate" release, Don't know if that one's still in print or not, but other than that material (which is more or less 1 CD out of three, even though it is spread/sequenced) across two CDs, this package definitely falls under the category of "grey market", aka "bootleg", which means that there's no truly "right" way to get it, so...proceed accordingly and knowingly.

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JSngry Grand Master

JSngry

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Posted

What I've seen of the packaging (quite minimal) and annotation (biographical/chronological/discographical facts strung together in a way that resembles substance much more than it provides it coupled with some lowish quality photos, including one lifted from the Contemporary archives) strongly suggests that the very lowest price possible (up to and including free) is still, at this time, the route to pursue for this fine music.

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